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DISRAELI
FlyersFan
Where Peter is ... there is the church
I would say the church is where Christ is.
DISRAELI
If I belong to Christ, then I belong to the church, because that is the only true definition of membership of the church.
DISRAELI
Your distinction comes dangerously close to saying "thera are Christians who are not in the church".
the true definition of the church is in the phrase "the blessed company of all faithful people" (which comes from an Anglican eucharistic prayer, but I don't know where Cranmer got it from).
Let me draw your attention to Paul's usage....
So Paul's own usage is at odds with the "Church=Peter" idea.
adjensen
DISRAELI
If I belong to Christ, then I belong to the church, because that is the only true definition of membership of the church.
Well, there is "the church", the community of Christians, and then there is "the Church", specific religious institutions. The two were (mostly) one and the same prior to 1054, stayed reasonable harmonious for the next 500 years, then exploded into dissension in the Reformation. Though both I and a Southern Baptist claim to belong to "the church", it is difficult to reconcile the gulf that exists between what I, a Roman Catholic, believes it means to be a Christian, and what the Southern Baptist believes, and I'm a Protestant-leaning Catholic at that.
I've struggled over the years to sort out the theological differences that exist within the spectrum of Christian and pseudo-Christian belief systems, without much success. I'm convinced that only the Second Coming can possibly bring about Christian unity.
colbe
The Orthodox broke away.
At three o'clock in the afternoon of Saturday, 16 July 1054, in the presence of all the clergy assembled for the Eucharist, the three ex-legates of Rome, two cardinals and an archbishop, all in their full canonicals, stride into the Great Church of St. Sophia and up to the high altar, on which thery formally laid their solemn Bull of Excommunication. This done, they turned on their heel and marched from the building, pausing only to shake the dust symbolically from their feet. Two days later having taken formal leave of the Emperor- who remained as courteous as ever and loaded them with presents- they left for Rome.
Let the ancient customs in Egypt, Libya, and Pentapolis prevail: that the Bishop of Alexandria have jurisdiction in all these, since the like is customary for the Bishop of Rome also. Likewise in Antioch and the other provinces, let the Churches retain their privileges...
DISRAELI
reply to post by colbe
All this material about the future expectation and the eucharist is departing from the topic of this thread, which is defining the church and what constitutes membership of the church.
Do please try to stick to the subject in hand.
If I start a thread about the future expectation, then you can start talking about it.
colbe
Read history.
DISRAELI
I have been reading history for the last fifty years. It was on the basis of knowing much more history than you do that I was able to spend my previous post demolishing your idea that the Orthodox people "broke away" from accepting Papal authority.
colbe
Read history.
As I demonstrated, the main body of the church in the east had NEVER accepted papal authority, going right back to the beginning of the church, so there was nothing for them to break away from.
In fact the "breaking away" was the other way round, as I have already shown.
God does not want me to belong to the Roman Catholic Church.
He wants me to belong to Christ.
That is much more important, to the extent that God is more important than the Pope.
edit on 21-9-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)
At three o'clock in the afternoon of Saturday, 16 July 1054, in the presence of all the clergy assembled for the Eucharist, the three ex-legates of Rome, two cardinals and an archbishop, all in their full canonicals, stride into the Great Church of St. Sophia and up to the high altar, on which thery formally laid their solemn Bull of Excommunication. This done, they turned on their heel and marched from the building, pausing only to shake the dust symbolically from their feet. Two days later having taken formal leave of the Emperor- who remained as courteous as ever and loaded them with presents- they left for Rome.
Let the ancient customs in Egypt, Libya, and Pentapolis prevail: that the Bishop of Alexandria have jurisdiction in all these, since the like is customary for the Bishop of Rome also. Likewise in Antioch and the other provinces, let the Churches retain their privileges...
So I would rather lay off the interdenominational conflict except when I'm coming under attack on those lines.