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UN: Syrian Chemical Attack Executed With Russian Rockets.

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posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 04:34 PM
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jtma508
As I just said in another, similar thread:

First, remember that when it comes to international politics, no one has clean hands. Russia is SAYING that the evidence points to the rebels but unless you've seen such evidence it doesn't exist. Keep firmly in mind that Russia has a basic business desire (everything's a business model) to keep Syria status quo. Hundreds of billons of dollars hang in the balance. They'll say and do anything to protect that.

Initially, like most people, I believed it was likely the rebels who had launched the attack hoping to draw US firepower into the fight on their behalf. However, Human Rights Watch and now the UN Mission have released their reports on what happened and it seems very, very unlikely that the 'opposition' launched the attack. Why?

1. The Aug 21st attack was carried out with 140mm and 330mm rockets KNOWN to be in the Syrian arsenal.

2. They carry ~20liters and ~50liters respectively. There were between 5 and 8 (depending upon sources) impacts in each of two areas of Damascus (16km apart) that would have required between 350 and 560 liters of Sarin. That is a lot!

3. The azimuth calculated at impact sites strongly indicates that multiple rocket launchers were used. It further suggests that the rockets were launched from government controlled military bases and/or areas.

4. The mixing and filling of rocket warheads requires specialized equipment and expertise.

Add to the forgoing the evidence presented by Western intelligence and the case is even stronger against Assad. We know that the opposition has been caught with nerve agents. And they may well have used them in the past (there have been 14+ incidents in Syria). But it seems very clear that as far as the August 21st attack is concerned, no way could the opposition have mounted that attack. They don't have the equipment, munitions and most especially the trunk-mounted launchers needs to fire the rockets.

I, too, suspected the opposition. But when the independent evidence came out and was duly analyzed by professionals, my position changed. If Russia has photographs of the opposition in possession of the launchers, munitions, and 130 gallons of Sarin used in this attack let me see them.

The 140mm rockets are Russian made and have to be launced from a truck-mounted launcher (usually a multiple launch platform). The 330mm rockets, however, are an Iranian design using a single-launch, truck-mounted platform. The HRW report suggested that the actual 330mm rockets were of Syrian production.



Who is to believe the UN anyway. Why are people so trusting of them. They have an agenda just like the rest of them. I dont trust any of them. If any side thought they could get away with it, they would. As citizens, we should realise that we cannot trust any govt or organisation. They are ALL corrupt. They are all as bad as each other.




posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 04:37 PM
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Posting a you tube video with the heading "USA did it", just isn't going to cut it anymore.
This claim is just freaking retarded at this point.
They are now proven to be Russian rockets.

]
Which means nothing. Russian weapons are all over the planet. As are weapons manufactured by most govts. It about who USED them.
edit on 16-9-2013 by greavsie1971 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by greavsie1971
 


What alternative would you recommend then?
You cannot trust people any more then you can trust the government, our natural tendencies dictate that once free of any control there will always be those who exploit the absence of order for their own ends. The whole point of governments and even the UN is to work together, yet more and more it seems like everyone just wants to fend for themselves despite the fact that such an attitude would lead to chaos that we can barely comprehend. I, for one, am NOT looking forward to the day when i have to shoot my own neighbors and community members over a can of beans or a bottle of water.



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 04:38 PM
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greavsie1971



Posting a you tube video with the heading "USA did it", just isn't going to cut it anymore.
This claim is just freaking retarded at this point.
They are now proven to be Russian rockets.

]
Which means nothing. Russian weapons are all over the planet. As are weapons manufactured by most govts. It about who USED them.
edit on 16-9-2013 by greavsie1971 because: (no reason given)


at this point you could say terrorists from anyplace, posed at CIA and fired rockets pretending to be syrians to get heat on USA for their agenda.

this whole thing is a damned mess.



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by solargeddon
 


The attacks came from two directions and hit 2 parts of the city approximately 16km apart. The 140mm rockets came form a direction of 35deg from the city (ENE) (214-180). The 330mm rockets came from a location 105deg (ESE) of the city (285-180).



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 04:44 PM
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Cobaltic1978
The report also states that the missile trajectory came from an Easterly/South Easterly direction, which as Sky News so eloquently put it; make of that, what you will. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink!!



Assad's forces surround an area turning it into a pocket, then they bombard it with artillery and rockets before going in to retake control.
You are grasping at straws because Assad can attack from any direction around Damascus.



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 04:47 PM
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This is such a mess. I was dead-set on the false flag idea; I don't feel like changing my mind.
Seriously though, I don't even know what to believe at this point. I can hardly follow this anymore. I'm glad we decided not to bomb Syria, but now we're tumbling down a rabbit hole of ever-increasing complexity and confusion.



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 04:47 PM
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edit on 16-9-2013 by TinfoilTP because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-9-2013 by TinfoilTP because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 04:54 PM
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greavsie1971



Posting a you tube video with the heading "USA did it", just isn't going to cut it anymore.
This claim is just freaking retarded at this point.
They are now proven to be Russian rockets.

]
Which means nothing. Russian weapons are all over the planet. As are weapons manufactured by most govts. It about who USED them.
edit on 16-9-2013 by greavsie1971 because: (no reason given)


Comparing rpg's and AK47's to large scale rockets only State militaries possess is like saying you can find a tank on side of the road or trade in your fishing boat for an attack submarine.



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by TinfoilTP
 


Which would be awesome....imagine the fun of fishing with a submarine!



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by solargeddon
 


I have just taken a look at the report on the BBC website and it actually states the missiles were fired TO a North Easterly direction. Meaning they were fired from the South East.



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 05:25 PM
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TinfoilTP

greavsie1971



Posting a you tube video with the heading "USA did it", just isn't going to cut it anymore.
This claim is just freaking retarded at this point.
They are now proven to be Russian rockets.

]
Which means nothing. Russian weapons are all over the planet. As are weapons manufactured by most govts. It about who USED them.
edit on 16-9-2013 by greavsie1971 because: (no reason given)


Comparing rpg's and AK47's to large scale rockets only State militaries possess is like saying you can find a tank on side of the road or trade in your fishing boat for an attack submarine.


You can find lots of tanks on the side of the road in Syria. Lets not forget that Syrian rebels have also overtaken a few military bases in Syria. That is neither here nor there. So far there is still no definitive proof who was responsible for this particular attack.

I would like to ask some of you in this thread: Even if it turns out someone within the Syrian regime was responsible for the chemical weapons attack, do you believe that the current course of action is the right one? Would you have rather the U.S went in guns blazing or do you believe that the Russian brokered deal to remove Syrian chemical weapons is the right decision?

Personally, I think the world may have narrowly averted world war 3. Not only that, but the other factors in play (mainly psychopathic islamic militants coming to power in Syria) make this policy of diplomacy the right decision. There is much more at stake in Syria then simply "sending a message" to Assad. Much much more.



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 05:36 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I find this most interesting... especially when those who have made up their minds (based on what's reported by people they like) declare the 'facts'...

Note how much editorial prevarication there is about this matter.

It is known as "the Syrian chemical attack" which leaves the "consumers" of news without any inclination if this was an attack that happened in Syria... or if it was the Syrians who conducted it - or both or neither. No one without an agenda seems willing to say that this actually was an attack that a specific party launched. It serves the politics of fear well when there is a 'hole' in reporting attribution...

Most people want the fact that the delivery system used was Russian. Frankly, do we all know that there are only a few countries from which such systems can come? The matter of the equipment "branding" will have precious little to do with who exactly used them... since they are all available on the black market. And virtually every nation in the region has 'captured' their fair share of such contraband. It's use is akin to the "clean-throwaway-gun."

I am unready to say that Assad's administration was stupid enough to think an attack with WMDs was a sound strategy (but I am not naive enough to think he would not attack these rebels, wherever they are.) I am unready to believe that our politicians are blind enough to fail to recognize that these 'rebels' are anything but the same Jihadists we are supposed to be fearing because "they hate us for our freedoms." We already know they have gone to great lengths to strengthen their ties with Al Qeada; and many (perhaps most of them) are not in fact, Syrian at all.

Reality is never the 2-dimensional caricature the politicians, globalists, the "Royally-entitled," and their media allies portray.

Would you risk your sovereignty by using a WMD that is guaranteed to bring about your downfall?

Is each potential as likely:



  • Jihadist bent on maximizing the "villainy" of their enemy, chalking the casualties up to 'martyrdom.'
  • Regional oligarchs attempting to socially engineer those governed by a secular leader into unrest and disaffection.
  • Energy Cartel players manipulating local attitudes to further their oil distribution plans.
  • Western-minded globalists creating strife to accumulating force to 'influence' local governments.
  • Assad adopting a lunatic mentality about governing the nation.



In the end... we must accept that we will not be "told" the truth, or even facts devoid of sanctioned 'characterization.' We can only 'extract' and 'synthesize' the most realistic scenario... and confront our self-appointed leaders with the reality they so strongly labor to have us ignore.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



edit on 16-9-2013 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 05:44 PM
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TinfoilTP
Assad is guilty as sin.

The hardware, the expertise, and the vast amounts used prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was Assad's military that launched the chemical attacks.
Rebels at best could detonate an ied that would not be a massive air dispersal, most they could do is target a single corner of a street or a single building. Weaponized air bursts from Russian rockets, that is not something you can steal or find laying around, it takes special launchers, special missiles, agents that are specially kept separate from launchers till the order to use them has been made. Then they all come together by people who have expertise in preparing and launching the ordinance. Comparing this to finding a cache of rpgs and using them is a compete and utter joke. But Assad sympathisers along with West haters will eat it up like candy.


So I guess the FACT that Al-CIA-duh is operating and coordinating with these "Rebels" makes no difference?? Ya know, the same good folks that our government armed, trained and financed since the 80's..no, they couldn't possibly have the hardware and the know how to pull off these chemical attacks.... Just had to be that evil Assad!!!

edit on 16-9-2013 by UndergroundMilitia because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 05:45 PM
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What's that saying?,,If u want too take someone over,
,tell them,, your their friend. Or was it my friends close and my enemy closer. or maybe " Judas,,! for thirty pieces of Silver you use Serin Gas On Children and old men,!" this is not a Warrior mind but that of a Genecidal Maniac.
"Who will Protect the Windows an Orphans oh Lord" is there none upon this Earth?



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by CALGARIAN
 


I find this highly suspect. Russian reporta make shiftrockets ALSO worth noting that the Syrian Army struck back on the area with rockets (conventional).

Also I read that the gas was kitchen Sarin not mikitary grade. Also it was said that, had it been military grade, it would have killed first responders and anyone that handled the bodies and clothes. The reason being that weapons grade causes crystal tgat collect on the hair and clothes and are rereleased when the body is moved. The rebels kitchen sarin is less effective. Also the body count is exaggeratrd in US media (not that even a single death is okay).

I still believe it was the rebels that commited the attacks.



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


Honestly?

I think the Syrian government was performing bio-chemical weapons tests on their own people with materials provided by multiple nations and interested third parties, namely their chief allies in Russia, China and Iran.

If anything we should be more concerned about the current plan then the original one. This way guarantees there will be troops on the ground in Syria because they will be the only ones WE can trust to get the weapons and get them out of the country. Though, in all likelihood Russia has already gotten its share of the best stuff and is going to leave the lesser models for the UN/US/Whoever to retrieve to hold this whole story together.

One of the most disturbing facts i have learned from all of this is that the Chemical Weapons Convention bans the use of deadly chemical weapons as a tool for war, but seems to be ok with the use of non lethal chemical and bio chemical deterrents against citizens of all the signed nations if it's deployed a tool of combating or pacifying protests/insurrections/etc.

With all the designer drugs that have been popping up lately around the world and the advances we have made in biotechnology then Syria just might be one of the most dangerous weapons makers on the planet. Nukes are scary because they devastate completely, but the real horror show comes from the kind of weapons that can be used to subdue a population without killing it.



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 06:12 PM
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then Russia broke the following "Chemical Weapons Convention bans the use of deadly chemical weapons"

united nations treaty. and should be subject too penalties for breaking the treaty, if it was rougue Speznats,maybe a public trial,,??



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 06:19 PM
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UndergroundMilitia

TinfoilTP
Assad is guilty as sin.

The hardware, the expertise, and the vast amounts used prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was Assad's military that launched the chemical attacks.
Rebels at best could detonate an ied that would not be a massive air dispersal, most they could do is target a single corner of a street or a single building. Weaponized air bursts from Russian rockets, that is not something you can steal or find laying around, it takes special launchers, special missiles, agents that are specially kept separate from launchers till the order to use them has been made. Then they all come together by people who have expertise in preparing and launching the ordinance. Comparing this to finding a cache of rpgs and using them is a compete and utter joke. But Assad sympathisers along with West haters will eat it up like candy.


So I guess the FACT that Al-CIA-duh is operating and coordinating with these "Rebels" makes no difference?? Ya know, the same good folks that our government armed, trained and financed since the 80's..no, they couldn't possibly have the hardware and the know how to pull off these chemical attacks.... Just had to be that evil Assad!!!

edit on 16-9-2013 by UndergroundMilitia because: (no reason given)


This is a common mistake for people who do not know the region. Al Quaida is not one group. While it started off as a splinter of some of the groups supporting the Afgans it is not the same group. After 911 groups in several countries began to call themselves Al Qauida as well. Kind of like a fanchise. Although the real Al Qauida has been decimated by US drone strikes its franchises still operate all over. They however have local or regional goals. The Al Quaida of 911 wishes to direct its efforts directly against the West or the Gulf States these other groups goal are much smaller and more local. However by using the name they can attract more funding and recruiting. So no they do not have ability to conduct such operations. They operate in what is known as asymmetric warfare. They operate on the fringes of conflict because they are not a traditional miitary unit.



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 06:26 PM
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Look at it this way. The warning was out to Assad before chem weapons ever flew and he most certainly knew what consequences would/could be. US has admittedly been funneling in weapons to 'rebel' forces. Benghazi. What portion of the CIA budget is allocated to disinformation/propaganda? In a civil war in Syria, who stood to gain? By launching chem weapons, who could have possibly stood to gain?

There's a lot of 'information' floating around, and a lot of it is designed to manipulate public opinion. A latent report of evidence that chem weapons were of Russian origin is just a bit too simplistic for me. But then again that's just me.







 
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