It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Lord of the Rings = Armageddon?

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 12:50 PM
link   
J.R.R.Tolkien was a devout Catholic. I couldn't help feeling there was a lot of religious symbolgy in his story. As a disclaimer, I'm not catholic and I do not necessarily subscribe to the ideals of Tolkien, I'm merely stating that it may be what Tolkien was trying to say. Please keep this in mind when you read the Jewish references!

Here are my thoughts about what symbolizes what:

Sauron, The Great Eye, "wreathed in flame" = Satan/The Antichrist/The Beast as the all-seeing eye (as ever-present in the symbology of the Egyptian Gods, the Illuminati and Freemasonry).

Gandalf the Grey = Jesus Christ.
Gandalf the Grey sacrifices himself to save the rest of the Fellowship, who themselves represent various aspects of humankind, as Jesus sacrificed himself to save mankind.

Gandalf the White = The second coming; Jesus Christ upon his return to Earth for the final battle and the destruction of Satan's hold on the Earth.
"I come back to you now, at the turning of the tide." As "the Grey", Gandalf is relatively weak. The forces of evil destroy him.. He is resurrected as Gandalf the White with enhanced powers and comes to lead the fight against evil in the final battle. Jesus died on the cross and was seen to be defeated by evil, but returns to destroy the Antichrist and the Beast.

Saruman = The Antichrist.
He looks like Gandalf (Jesus) and has similar powers, but he is not as strong. He uses the voice of deception to raise the masses in service of Sauron. Also Saruman's attempt to turn Gandalf to his cause could represent the temptation of Christ by Satan where he tempted Jesus with all the kingdoms of the Earth.

Gondor, The White City = Jerusalem.
The final battle for Jerusalem where the armies of the Antichrist attack the great city is represented by the final battle for Gondor. Gandalf (Jesus) is there to defend it from the forces of Sauron (The Antichrist/Satan).

Denethor, Steward of Gondor = The rulers of modern-day Isael and the Jews who claim that they are the chosen ones and that Jesus was merely a prophet (remember Tolkien was Catholic).
Denethor (misguided Jews) will not relinquish his hold over the city and holds contempt for Gandalf (Jesus) as a mere trickster. Gandalf reminds Denethor that he is a steward of Gondor and not the true King. In the end, Gandalf casts Denethor into the fire (represents the Lake of Fire in Revelation). In the book Denethor had one of the seeing stones and was manipulated by Sauron (Satan) just as Saruman was.

Elves = Christians who are taken up to heaven in the Rapture.
The Elves escape in boats to the magical land before the final battle begins. The land that they escape to (I forget the name) represents heaven.

Galadriel = Mother Mary.
Galadriel appears as if an angel, bathed in light, similar to the depiction and deification of Mary in the Catholic doctrine. She gives them Lembas bread to strengthen them, just as Catholics eat bread during mass to represent the body of Christ.

Orcs = The faithful who are corrupted by the Antichrist's false religion.
The orcs.were once Elves, but were corrupted and turned into beasts by Sauron, and they constitute the armies which attack the great city. Saruman's orcs have the mark of the white hand on their helmets and foreheads. This represents the Mark of the Beast.

Nazgul = Leaders who have been corrupted by Satan.
The Nazgul/Ringwraiths were once great "Kings of Men", corrupted and deceived by their lust for power. There were nine Nazguls. There were 10 kings (horns) in Revelation. Clutching at straws here, unless someone can think of another to make it ten. (Saruman?)

Sauron's Tower which was destroyed then rebuilt = The Tower of Babel and New Babylon.
Sauron's tower was destroyed. He rebuilds the tower for the final battle against the Earth and the holy city. The tower of Babel, purported to have been in Babylon, was destroyed by God for challenging him. New Babylon (USA? EU?) will rise to challenge God again.

Hobbits = The (later to be) faithful that are not taken up in the Rapture, the martyrs.
Tolkien: "The time is coming when the smallest of all creatures will determine the fate of all." Bible: "And the meek shall inherit the Earth." In the beginning the hobbits do not believe much in the outside world and the concept of evil, but the truth is shown to them only in the lead-up to the final battle. Sam and Frodo go through trials and tribulation to reach their goal, but they never lose faith. Frodo struggles with the temptation of the Ring and the deceptive power that it provides. The power of the ring represents the (falsely) spiritual power of the Antichrist's world religion. By accepting this power, one gives oneself to Sauron/Satan and will become his vassal, just as the Ringwraiths did. The ring may also represent the Mark of the Beast (which many fear wil be GPS/NSA -tracked chips). Whenever Frodo puts it on, Sauron can see him wherever he is.

Gollum/Smeagol = Those who deny God and succumb to the Beast.
Smeagol was once like the Hobbits, but he is tempted by the power of the Ring (Mark of the Beast/ Antichrist's false religion) and becomes an unwitting servant of Sauron (Satan). He struggles with his good nature (faith in God) and his dark nature (temptation of the Antichrist). In the end, he is cast into the fires of Mt.Doom (hell/the abyss/the Pit/ the Lake of Fire) as a result of taking the ring (Mark of the Beast).

Rohirrim & Theoden = Couldn't think of anything for these. Anyone got any ideas?

Aragorn = The King of Kings, earthly aspect of Jesus. He rules the (holy) city through the golden ages after Satan has been defeated (New Jerusalem of Revelation).

The Ages of Middle Earth, First thru Fourth = The four ages of the Earth: 1. Genesis, 2. After the Flood (Noah), 3. After Jesus's first coming and sacrifice, and 4. the golden age after armageddon and Jesus' Second Coming.

I admit I may very well just be seeing what I want to see, and you can relate almost anything to Biblical apocolyptic events in some way, but there seems to be a lot of connections. Any thoughts? Anyone see any other allegories?




posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 12:58 PM
link   
Gondor, The White City = Jerusalem.
The final battle for Jerusalem where the armies of the Antichrist attack the great city is represented by the final battle for Gondor. Gandalf (Jesus) is there to defend it from the forces of Sauron (The Antichrist/Satan).

I'm guessing you mean Minis Tirith which is the white city. Other than that I have no comment.



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 01:22 PM
link   
good comparison only in LOR if it wasnt for Gollum the bad guys would have won seeing as Frodo in the end gives in to the temptation (if gollum wasnt there Frodo would have left with the ring!!!)

there are some similarities with LOR like you pointed out however tolkien was enchanted by norse myth and pagan believes. LOR is a great story about good triumping over evil, but the foundation of it is sorcery..witchcraft...good and bad..white and black fighting against each other....but ALL witchcraft is evil!

tolkien took ancient myths and mixed them to make LOR....myths about elvs for example and faireries..you can as you did draw parelles to revelations and the bible but you cant take the "pagan" out of LOR...its all based on pagan false beliefs.


LL1

posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 01:39 PM
link   
Here's another spin on Tolkiens' Lord of The Rings, which I found to be
rather interesting.



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 03:02 AM
link   
Excellent comparison.

The only other thing I have to say is witchcraft is not evil. Fear leads to hate. I fear that which is different, therefore I hate it and it must be evil.

That's the kind of rationale that makes countries divided, and sovereign nations topple becuase of the differences of ethnic groups. Different is bad, yeah...

God loves all of his children, you should try to be more like God.

God loves those who practice traditional pagan beliefs, as much as the man who pays lip service only to him, by attending mass or church.

-ADHDsux4me



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 05:34 AM
link   
pretty good comparison and it was minis tirith and yeah its all good



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 08:15 AM
link   
I've seen a number of films that have a lot of Christian symbolisms in them. Nice to see that you've seen that in LOTR, because I missed those in that film.



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 11:44 AM
link   
I'd picked up on some previously, but didn't dig quite as deep as you have, wecomeinpeace. Well done I think.

Also was hoping Viggio would've played Christ in the Passion. Did you see him after he placed the broken sword on the statue and looked up? Very much the way people have seen depictions of Christ.

[edit on 15-11-2004 by saint4God]



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 12:17 PM
link   
Yeah, I agree, Viggio would make a great JC. I think of the scene where Frodo offers him the Ring, but he gently yet firmly refuses its temptation.

No one got any parallels for Rohan and Theoden?

I also posted this on BTS in the Faith and Sprituality forum to get the reactions of folks that might not subscribe here. Pisky compared Grim Wormtongue to the Antichrist or a servant of the Antichrist, cunningly deceiving Theoden and his people before Gandalf (Jesus) casts him out and awakens Theoden from Grima's thrall.



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 12:34 PM
link   
Not to nit pic but suron was not the orginal big bad person that goes to melkore. Suroman and gandulf were both the same kind of thing (i cant rember the name below the valar) last melkore was a valar. So suron would be the servent of the devil.



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 01:14 PM
link   
Excellent take, but the lord of the rings is based on his experiences with WW1.

The symbology contained within LOR , with the evil forces representing Germany etc, and with the good forces representing the allied countries, etc.

and witchcraft is a catchall phrase for many things. The world was a Pagan wonderland until organized religion decided people are evil, and people have been fulfilling that ever since.



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 01:25 PM
link   

Not to nit-pick but suron was not the orginal big bad person that goes to melkore. Suroman and gandulf were both the same kind of thing (i cant rember the name below the valar) last melkore was a valar. So suron would be the servent of the devil.

Interesting points. Melkor was originally Morgoth, renamed later. Sauron was his servant in the world after Morgoth/Melkor was cast into the abyss. This would still fit in with Sauron symbolizing Antichrist. Morgoth is Lucifer and Sauron is the Antichrist, his servant on Middle-Earth.

Remember we're talking about symbology here, not simply the same story with names changed. For example Aragorn could represent the Earthly, King aspect of Jesus while Gandalf represents the saviour aspect of him. Saying that Gandalf symbolizes Jesus does not mean that Aragorn doesn't as well.

By the same token, Sauron and Saruman could both represent the Antichrist. Revelations speaks of three figures of evil. Satan, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet. If you want to get down to exact roles, perhaps Morgoth represents Satan (the original evil), Sauron represents the Antichrist (the earthly servant of Satan), and Saruman represents the False Prophet (he who deceives and convinces the masses to worship the Antichrist). Gandalf and Saruman were the same, yes, but equals on different sides of the fence. Saruman could represents the False Prophet while Gandalf represents Jesus, the True Prophet.

Not saying anyone's right or wrong. Just my thoughts. This is fun.

[edit on 2004/11/15 by wecomeinpeace]



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 02:40 PM
link   
King Theodan, a repentent Judas? Maybe one of the apostles, who was a good man, got taken in by evil, and Jesus frees his mind, then Theodan fights to his dying breath for Jesus?

I rather liked king Theodan, I thought he was a cool character.

That leaves Crema Wyrmtongue. Hmm, perhaps another aspect of Satan, or a demon focused on temptation and possession?

-ADHDsux4me



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 03:48 PM
link   
Great parallelism. For me, the meaning of the LOTR story is twofold:

1. the great journey that is life.

2. power and its consequences.

In the end, it is clear why there is so much pain in Middle Earth: everybody wants the ring (i.e. the power) for oneself. This is what exactly is happening in real life: everybody wants a piece of the pie...and the bigger the piece, the bigger the appetite.

But power ultimately leads to destruction...to Armageddon. That's the message of LOTR. I've reached the same conclusion as you, but from a different path.



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 04:11 PM
link   
One of things that I was amused about regarding the one ring. It made one invisible, but in Sauran's realm you appear.

Aside from it's temptation ability, the ring only can make you invisble.

All that temptation, just from a ring of invisibility, lol.

-ADHDsux4me



posted on Nov, 15 2004 @ 04:44 PM
link   
Not true, the ring's power was in direct proportion to the initial power and willpower of the wielder. That's what Gandalf and Galadriel meant when they denied the ring. They would wield great power with the ring, but eventually it would corrupt them as it did Smeagol and they would become instruments of the ring's will. IN the hands of Frodo or Gollum, it's powers were limited.

In the book, the greatest power of the ring-wielder was the ability to bend the will of others to the ring-wielder's. To control minds.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 07:17 PM
link   
The movie is very Apocalyptic in what it illustrates, the Orcs are very Nephelim like if not the Locusts ready for battle at the river Euphraties during Armageddom.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 10:57 PM
link   
Guys, Tolkien was very vocal in his loathing for allegory in fiction. Based on this, I seriously doubt that he included any in his own writings.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 11:13 PM
link   
Hi!

Fun thread!

2 quick notes, there is no Catholic teaching about the rapture and Mary is deified in Catholicism.

Interesting take on things! I hadn't seen the parallels until you pointed them out.

Eric



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 12:00 AM
link   
yeah thats what i heard too, tolkein was into norse saga's and myths and stuff. perhaps the similiarities between that and christianity etc show there are some common roots to most religious myths?



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join