99% sure my friend is a (new) abductee. Can you help?

reply to post by HairlessApe

You should probably respect the elderly man's wishes.

What elderly man? *Looks around*... I never said he was elderly. He’s 58. Presuming he‘s ‘old’ because of a hip break might be where that came from but not from my OP.

He's probably embarrassed about breaking his hip and doesn't want to talk about it. It's probably not the doing of fairy tale creatures that there's no evidence of. Maybe he picked up painting because he realizes he's to feeble to be out and about after breaking his hip.

I’m pretty good at reading when people are embarrassed are not - I’m from the school of belief good manners means you never make anyone feel uncomfortable. I wouldn’t ’go there’.

The thing is - he isn’t embarrassed. Definitely not embarrassed. It’s something ‘else’. It’s that ‘something else’ combined with this painting frenzy paired with his great reluctance and underlying fear that leads me to believe it may be and very well is ‘more’.

Now again - there are possibilities (of course) of some type of interaction with a local boss. Problem is - people here go from cradle to grave dealing with the mafia and it isn’t pleasant but it surly isn’t something to take up painting alien themed creatures and beings and let yourself go over. On the other hand - who knows how his mind is working? It might just in fact be the way he’s dealing with the trauma of a ‘boss‘ encounter - - - releasing ‘it’ through representations of things strange and wild, eerie and uncontrollable.

Leave the poor guy alone.

I understand your point but friends don’t ‘leave friends alone’ when they’re in need. At least I don’t. I wouldn’t push myself or my suspicions on him - not push them - but to provide him with some material about abductions? I don’t see how that could hurt - though I reiterate that’s my reason for being here - to ask if it might.

He doesn't need to deal with someone else's unchecked imagination on top of what he's going through.

Unchecked imagination? Very gracious of you - considering as I’ve stated I have not acted on it - only put a couple of two and two’s together and come up wondering the answer.

It's not demons, the government, or ghosts either. In fact, it's nothing ridiculously stupid like that.

Now demons - I hadn’t thought of that. This culture supports demons - without a doubt - and he would be a person to ‘fall victim’ to them if anyone was (long story that). So I believe in demons? Sure I do. Not the pop out from the closet door kind - but true evil incarnate? Yes I do. I just wouldn’t think to see the ‘alien’ theme in his paintings if it were demons - I would expect, well, something more demon like. Again - I think the best thing is to get photos the next time I go to see him.

Old people fall.

Think I cleared that one up, but thanks.

If you're genuinely concerned for him, then maybe you should ask why he's suddenly painting and why the subject of his art is creepy looking creatures instead of coming up with your own ridiculous conclusion and then trying to fill in the gaps to fit your "theory."

I did ask him. You know what he said? ‘I can’t help myself. They’re in my head’. And in his fashion he actually used his pointer finger and tapped himself on the side of his temple and winked.

I didn’t feel comfortable putting that out earlier in the original post - it sounds to dramatic - but it is what it is. I asked where his ideas came from - without critiquing them like calling them ‘creepy’ of course. He replied simply ‘I can’t help myself. They’re in my head’ and went back to painting.

As for ridiculous conclusions? Why ridiculous? Why the negativity towards someone you don’t know - and someone in need of help? I don’t get why you’ve the need to verbally strangulate another berating their insight, outlook ideas? Where’s the need? I’m not picking on you - I’m asking. Your opinion does not and cannot effect me. I wont and do not allow it. But your ridicule of others does effect you. It can’t be good for you - I wouldn’t think. But I’m close to derailing my own thread here and wish to stay on topic.

It does pose a question though. Do you believe there are people who’ve been abducted? Maybe there’s something in that whole mind set you can't wrap yourself around - and I do understand that. I just don’t see the need for being mean spirited about it to those who might.

Lastly, if someone tells you that the rationalized explanation falls short of the outlandish one, that person probably has no ability to rationalize anything. Which is probably why they're so worried about demons.

I’m not sure who you’re referring to here - him or I - or someone else all together as - he’s not even given an explanation - to anyone. Not the docs, not his girlfriend, not me. No one. He will not say. It’s like he can’t say.

Outlandish? What’s outlandish? Alien abduction? Sure it is. But it isn’t unheard of and it’s a lot more common (I’m learning) than we’ve been led to believe in the past.

And it still comes down to those paintings.

Anyway - thanks again for your post - I appreciate your time and whether I agree or not with your opinion - it works as a fie protagonist to promote clarity on my part.

peace

reply to post by silo13


How is it that you expect to be able to "help" him, if you can't even truly "relate" to him? Saying that you're becoming "worried" automatically indicates that you're approaching this in the wrong manner.

I suggest you let him work out whatever it is that he needs to, and YOU as a friend should try to provide support if he ASKS. But don't approach him like you would some kind of wounded animal. If he had an "experience," then you must understand that it is far beyond ANYTHING that you could possibly comprehend, even in the deepest recesses of your imagination. In other words, you're not built to deal with this. At least, not yet. So, when you DO approach him, you approach him as someone who DOESN'T KNOW. You approach him with CARE, and you be sure not to make him feel guilty for that which he has experienced.

So, if you truly CARE for him, this will be the approach that YOU and his girlfriend take.

reply to post by silo13


You said he was "an older man" in your post. I didn't assume anything.

"They're in my head" doesn't mean he's being visited by aliens. It means he's painting what's on his mind. Any implication you draw from his words is a product of your own speculation - NOT his words. Anything you believe you have inferred from a week and smile is YOUR belief, not his.

Just a tad bit of input. Often times if people have to see a therapist for something (like PTSD) they may recommend painting or journal writing to help the mind relax. My father was a Vietnam vet and he took up painting about 15 years after the war as he was still dealing with issues.

You may not know everything going on in this guys life and poking around might not be the best. You should probably let it rest with his girlfriend and family.

reply to post by BO XIAN

The OP has no need of even a "scientific" hypothesis. She's merely OBSERVING THE EVIDENCE and coming up with Ockham's razor best fit as to the explanation therefore of all the puzzle pieces.

I’m kicking myself I didn’t wait for pics to post this thread.

If I’d of posted a few examples of his paintings - and asked ATS’ers to tell me what they think they’re looking at? I think, no I know we’d have all that ‘alien’ part of the subject cleared up for at least the majority of us.

It’s undeniable. Absolutely undeniable in the ‘classic’ theme.

Your post/opinion requires a question from me. You say Carl S. was ‘outted’ and I’m sure there are many other shamsters out there.

But - what about the ones who are not? What’s your opinion of people who claim to have been abducted?

Thanks - have a good day -

peace

silo13
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

I think, no I know we’d have all that ‘alien’ part of the subject cleared up for at least the majority of us.

It’s undeniable. Absolutely undeniable in the ‘classic’ theme.

In your head. Not objectively.

And mob mentality holds 0 credibility.

reply to post by rickymouse

The change is strange. Chemical changes can cause physical changes to the brain. A lot of chemicals are created when a person is injured, some of which can cause changes in the brain. It doesn't have to be an abduction.

That’s the sticking point. The brain. It’s the greatest unknown, really. Deeper than the oceans and all the skys above. Our own brains.

That’s why - right there in a nut shell - why I do believe there might be ‘someone or something out there’ that might just want to try to figure us out. I do believe our brains are... Unique. Priceless and absolutely beyond value in this world, others and the next.

Is he on any pain meds? Even Tylenol can cause changes in the brain by slowing the liver detoxifying the body. I wonder why he fell in the first place and why he lost consciousness after the fall. I don't know anyone who says they were abducted, so without conversing with someone in person, I can only be a skeptic on this subject. I don't understand why aliens would want to abduct anyone myself.

Yes, I’m a skeptic also - though it might not sound like it.

It’s just those paintings. That he can’t get them out of his head. Though then again - that’s all brain too isn’t it?

Thanks & peace

~ gracie

The guy said THE PICTURES ARE IN HIS HEAD.

If you hear that and assume "aliens have infiltrated his brain" then you're ASSUMING. Assuming waaaaaay too much.

And Bo. For the record, the argument from the stance of occam's razor would NEVER be in favor of an alien abduction. Ever. Period.

reply to post by BO XIAN


There are lower activities often involving the mililtary and the negatives they either work with or know about. Whenever someone is experiencing negative, the search should be on to get on task with life's purpose, gain protection via kindness to others, and raise frequency. I've had protection and intercession, ie. rescue done. I don't bleieve there are any coincidences in life. Neither good nor neutral would ever leave anyone in a state like that. But elderly often fall, and that he didn't cry out may have meant he was put in an altered state by Spirit/Source or Positives. Negatives don't have rights over people, and we have to stand up with love to all that would act as little bullies or children. Don't beleive in that kind of thing at all. I see most bad things coming out of black operations and satanic stuff instead.

reply to post by NewEye77

How is it that you expect to be able to "help" him, if you can't even truly "relate" to him?

I can’t - that’s why I’m here.

Saying that you're becoming "worried" automatically indicates that you're approaching this in the wrong manner.

No, I approached the matter as a friend going to another to wish them well, see if there was something I could do to help him recover and just say ‘hi dude, how’s the hip’ - all up and happy and uplifting to a friend in bed in need.

It didn’t take more than a few moments with him to realize his change. The ‘strangeness’ about him. I don’t like using the word as it sounds negative - I don’t mean it to be. But the change is undeniable. And the paintings of course.

I suggest you let him work out whatever it is that he needs to, and YOU as a friend should try to provide support if he ASKS.

Good point. Be supportive without being insinuating.

But saying that - do you think I should provide him with some run offs from the internet? Bland and basic info about being an abducted?

But don't approach him like you would some kind of wounded animal. If he had an "experience," then you must understand that it is far beyond ANYTHING that you could possibly comprehend, even in the deepest recesses of your imagination.

Isn’t that the truth!!!

In other words, you're not built to deal with this. At least, not yet. So, when you DO approach him, you approach him as someone who DOESN'T KNOW. You approach him with CARE, and you be sure not to make him feel guilty for that which he has experienced.

So, if you truly CARE for him, this will be the approach that YOU and his girlfriend take.

I’ll do my best to stick right along these lines. Of course I will and I appreciate your take - very much, really.

So if you read this and are wont to reply again - what is your opinion on offering him something from the internet on abduction?

What I was thinking was this... Go through the internet and take some pictures of paintings others have created whose subjects are related to alien abduction, etc.

Take him a few examples - a few like his as well as a few not. Just the photos and nothing more. Then if he asks where they came from, what they are? It will give the opportunity to explain - with care and sans any drama?

What do you think?

peace

reply to post by BO XIAN

the art:

"I'm interested in your thoughts leading up to the beginning of this painting."

"I'm interested in your feelings just prior to drawing the basic outline of this face."

"I'm interested in your thoughts and feelings as you began to draw these eyes."

I have to say your questions gave me the chills. Especially the last one.

They’re reasonable and correct and well thought out, very well... But it still gave me the chills. Probably because I am so unprepared ho to receive the answers.

On the other hand if all I receive his answers with is love and care and understanding? Maybe that will be enough.

peace

reply to post by silo13


As I've noted . . . have read exhaustively on the subject since 1962. . . . originally out of an interest in Sci-Fi.

Within 5-10 years I realized that the whole pile of phenomena likely related to END TIMES Bible prophecies.

Within 10-15 years, I was totally certain of that. I still didn't know if all the critters were evil; some good or what.

Now, I believe that researchers like

Guy Malone and his scholarly panels of experts;
LA Marzulli
Chuck Missler
Scientist Jacques Vallee
Scientist J A Hynek
Cris Putnam and Tom Horn in Exo-Vaticanna

et al

are exactly right. That the critters are fallen angels [demons being fallen angels who had chosen mortal bodies before Noah's flood in order to physically copulate with beautiful human women--ending up with their bodies being exterminated in the flood . . . leaving their eternal entities, spirits roaming about as demons seeking bodies to inhabit and express themselves through]

Now to clarify, Hynek and Vallee have not OFTEN explicitly labeled them demons nor fallen angels. They have asserted--particularly Jacques Vallee--that the critters are evil entities coming from an evil spiritual dimension.

To answer your question a bit more directly . . .

I believe that the vast majority of abductees are telling the truth as they experienced it. That may include being deceived wholesale by the critters in a list of ways.

Some minor percentage of purported abductees may be mentally off attention seekers but I think that percentage must be less than 1%.

You may be unaware that Guy Malone wrote EVERY SINGLE famous researcher in the field and asked them if they had any cases where the application of the Name and/or Blood of Jesus in an orally expressed spiritual warfare sort of way had stopped and/or prevented abductions . . .

EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM SAID THEY HAD A NUMBER OF SUCH CASES in their files.

But they refused to allow their names to be associated with that fact. And they did not explain why they refused such disclosure.

You may also be unaware that Guy determined that NONE of the cases he had any connection with (more than 400] had occurred with any authentic Christians. And certainly NOT with any authentic Christians who had not had any occult involvements.

There was the famous case of . . . it may have been the book . . . INTERRUPTED JOURNEY or some such title. I forget the woman's name. She was unique in that she claimed to be an authentic practicing Christian. However, Guy's investigation discovered that she had spiritually legally opened a spiritual door to the occult and that the abductions began after that.

Some such occult involvements began in the generational line even centuries earlier. The prescription still worked. He helped bring to a screeching halt some cases where abductions had been going on for many many years, . . . and several generations.

BTW, the skeptic was being hostile to me. It's a chronic habit of his.

The comment had nothing to do with you nor your friend.

reply to post by BO XIAN


I'm often hostile towards claims made with no empirical evidence to back them up. It's an appropriate stance to take as a rational human being, especially when the points I'm attempting to counter are given in a "matter-of-fact" manner but utterly lack fact. Just like all of your Bible research. Human beings don't have all of the answers. I certainly don't. But I do know one thing - human beings who claim to have all of the answers are usually the most incorrect of them all.

You able to get pics of the paintings?

reply to post by Ismail


Your explanation seems more sound.

The gravel business has some nasty people in it. Chances are he's been approached by LaFarge aggregates and cohorts. These guys have been buying up all the gravel pits.

Anyways it is possible to just lay there with a broken hip. I broke mine a few months ago. It was put back together with screws. It hurts really bad where you need morphine, but only when you try to move. It's actually a medical emergency. I was messed up in the head for awhile after it because of all the morphine. When I awoke after surgery they still had me on sling, it was army green and I was asking who they were, are we all being evacuated. I thought I was on some rescue mission, not sure why. Then I had a panic attack saying my leg hurt so bad I wanted it amputated. I was ringing the nurse bell to come chop it off.

Is he ambulating ok ? Like he can walk, bathe and dress himself etc? If not, that is very traumatizing. If he's over 50 it's common to have less bone mass and the bone can break easy. He may have is osteoporosis developing.


The paintings sound intriguing. I would like to see photos, but to be honest if you have to sneak taking pics , that's intrusive if you post them online.

reply to post by BO XIAN
It’s a rainy day today - nothing I can do outside - so I’ve a store a time to dedicate to this subject.
I’ll look into the list of names and info you provided and get back to you - if I may - if I’ve any questions.

Your post made me shiver again a bit. This man is the atheists of all atheists I know. Funny that - because he’s the most ‘acting’ Christian I now at the same time. He never has a bad word to say about anyone. Ever. There isn’t a critical or mean bone in his body - unless you try to malign or hurt people he loves and then you’d better watch out because you’ll have a very angry man in your face. He goes out of his way - I mean really out of his way to help people. Me included. He’s salt of the earth. A person that would think - on the outside - is a walking talking representative of what Christ asked people to do. Love others first. Etc.

But atheist? OMG - he has not one speck of sand of respect for Catholicism. No regard for the church, the bible - etc. He believes the bible is an incredible book - but it stops there.

Interesting all that when compared with the info in your post.

Anyway - I’m off to check out the info you posted.

peace

ItCameFromOuterSpace
reply to post by silo13

 

He might be taking pain medication which could be making him emotional and weird.

I have to agree. Like I said they put you in very strong narcotic drugs for the pain. Morphine. I have been in so many hospitals the past few years listening to patient stories about what morphine does. I googled it when I was in hospital. I found some very strange stories how some people changed after a surgery.

reply to post by violet

The gravel business has some nasty people in it. Chances are he's been approached by LaFarge aggregates and cohorts. These guys have been buying up all the gravel pits.

I was actually going to do some looking into that today with the time I’ve allotted. Thanks for the pointer that I’m headed in the right direction.

Is he ambulating ok ? Like he can walk, bathe and dress himself etc? If not, that is very traumatizing. If he's over 50 it's common to have less bone mass and the bone can break easy. He may have is osteoporosis developing.

He just started with a cane recently and it’s not going well. As for the rest - he’s had his GF helping him - and that hasn’t been easy on either of them. He’s had check ups - but here? Third world medicine and all - oh the horror stories I could tell you.

Also - something a lot of people might not know about here? Patients are not afforded any at home opiate based pain meds at all! Never. It just isn’t done. What do you do - you might ask - when you’ve broken a hip or like me recently had a tooth pulled. It’s simple. You suffer through it. Period.

If the pain is ‘that bad’ you go back in the hospital - and I can assure you one thing - you’d have to be half dead to stay in the hospitals here. They are hell. Pure hell. I’d love to go into more detail but again - I want to stay on topic. My point is - it's NOT narcotics causing his newfound creativity.

The paintings sound intriguing. I would like to see photos, but to be honest if you have to sneak taking pics , that's intrusive if you post them online.

That’s my dilemma. I’ll ask him if I can take a few. I will have to draw the line at ‘sneaking them’ - though it’s going to be very tough not to!

peace

reply to post by silo13


Here's a quick response to give you this link to a lot of Guy Malone's videos with some of the scholars etc. involved with his research:

www.youtube.com... 0...1ac.1.11.youtube.pul-p6LCH2I

reply to post by violet

Thanks Violet - I meant to add that earlier - and you can read up in my last reply.

There are no narcotics onboard. They're not prescribed here for home use. It just doesn't happen. A cultural thing I'd like to post about on the boards here at some point but the time isn't now.

Nope - he's not under the influence of any opiates/narcotics. Just not a possibility.

peace