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Hands off Islam

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posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 11:42 AM
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You cant judge Islam by the actions of a few muslims
You cant judge Islam by the history of the religion
You cant judge Islam by the scripture
You have to judge Islam by evils commited by other groups in the past the lies told to protect Islam and Islams good intentions

Afshin Ellian / In their eyes im a traitor
by Wilma Kieskamp
2004-11-13


Afshin Ellian, rights-philosopher (or law-philosopher) , born in Iran, feels its is his civil duty to warn the world for political Islam, which now also threatens Holland. If I still dare? Id prefer many more dare. Now i feel unprotected.
www.trouw.nl...


...He didnt make it any easier for himself this past week with this performance on Netwerk (Dutch daily news-show), on the night of the Van Gogh-murder. Ellian spoke a column for the camera. In the discussion afterwards he grew into great rage. Another guest Mohammed Benzakour claimed that the murder of Van Gogh did not originate from religion. The murder DID, Ellian responded in anger. This murderer went to a mosque, he has an imam, he has a mother, and he learned everything from the Quran! he yelled at his opponent. To commit a murder, to make a sacrifice. For a perverse God! And you should say that! ...

...Especially since september 11th 2001, and now after the death of Theo Van Gogh, Afshin Ellian is resuming political opinion. After September 11th I almost felt it as my civil duty. I saw what others perhaps couldnt see: we are in Iran. A strange sense of joy overcame me, in 2001, and now again. Maybe finally the West too will understand how political Islam wants to overthrow the world. I have to warn. Another thing that was an issue, is that we were living with our own young kids in a multicultural neighbourhood. I was shocked immensely over the large groups of Muslims for whom Islam was the only thing they could hold on to while searching for their own identity. And I knew how dangerous it can be if those people were to be enchanted by radical Islam.

I now know what the solution is for this gigantic problem. The answer I found in the books I devoured in my studying room. In the Dutch constitution which delivered me from my uncaring. In Nietzsche, Rousseau, the bible, the Quran. Ive embraced the enlightenment. And ive learned that the conscience can only function if ideas are scrutinised sharply. And that is exactly what is missing in Islam. The only solution is that Islam itself is discussed. Polemics is the solution. Daring to make jokes. Even mock. It should go hand in hand. But for years this was not allowed in progressive Holland. Hands off of Islam.




posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 12:08 PM
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I agree kaosktrl. can we say that christians are bad because of the crusader movement? nah, we are judging the religion and not the people who follow it mistakenly.



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 12:24 PM
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CAn you point the the Scripture that Crusaders were following
Did not the catholic church apologize for crusades?
Were not the crusades an answer to Islamic imperialism?



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
Were not the crusades an answer to Islamic imperialism?


Every religion practices imperialism. Look at Charlemagne: when he conquered the Saxons he gave them a choice - be baptized or die.



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 01:24 PM
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Can you point to the chapter and verse he used to authorize his actions?



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 01:29 PM
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i posted this in another thread on islam and im posting it again.

2 things about Islam:

90% of Islam is actually an APOCOLYPTIC faith..IE alot of Islams focus is on the "end times" ...or to put it this way Islam relies on the "end of the world" situation as a fuel for its fire..bringing us to the second point ...READ THE KORAN RESEARCH IT ONLINE...ISLAM beleives it will "subdue" "conquer" "control" "overcome" "subject" the ENTIRE WORLD (that includes seculiar) to its beliefs BEFORE "JUDGEMENT DAY"

you dont have to have a grudge or hatred for Islam to post this ...its one of the CORE PARTS of ISLAM!!!! get talking to a SERIOUS Muslim.....and you will find out that what I am posting is the truth ..thats what they beleive....and i OPENLY CHALLENGE ANY MUSLIM ON THIS SITE to correct me if I am wrong.



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 02:15 PM
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islam believes exactly what i posted...that the whole world will be under its control before judgement day.

thats the opposite of what christianity teaches, that the world will turn more away from the truth , there will be an apostacy and persecution of the just before Jesus returns.

interesting to note that islam believes it will over take the world ...and it seems to be happening (if you believe the statistics) we truely live in a post christain world...the fastest growing faith is Islam. IF (and i know it is a BIG IF) Islam becomes the major religion of the world in the future then that would further support the prophecies of the bible....because Islam , although it says jesus was a prophet, REJECTS Jesus as the son of God / Messiah..and even teaches that God has no son! The "spirit" of antichrist is one that rejects the son and therefore the true father aswell...Islam is ANTICHRIST period.


IMPORANT DISCLAIMER:
for all those brainwashed by "bushianity" or some "other" gospel pls dont think that the above is a reason to hate or kill muslims....pls return to the gospels and note "turn the other cheek" and "pray for your enemies"



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 03:43 PM
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I am tired of the people who dredge up ancient history (literally) to justify Islam or disparage Christianity.

The Crusades were 1000 (one thousand) years ago. Their actions were fitting for the time, and on par with the atrocities committed by Islam in the same era.

They were diferent people, in a different time, under different rules, with different expectations.

[edit on 13-11-2004 by Netchicken]



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 03:58 PM
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I agree with NetChicken.

Why would you say Islam should not be judged by its history BUT all others MUST be?

Most here have not only not condemed Islam but have bent over BACKWARDS to excuse them.

Until the Mainstream Muslims start speaking out against this kind of behavior this war will keep going.

The problem is basically we have TWO religions that think only THEY are correct and the rest are at best devil worshipers. Not to mention both believe the end of the world will happen in the middle east in a fight with the "Devil"

[edit on 13-11-2004 by Amuk]



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
You cant judge Islam by the actions of a few muslims
You cant judge Islam by the history of the religion
You cant judge Islam by the scripture
You have to judge Islam by evils commited by other groups in the past the lies told to protect Islam and Islams good intentions


I didn't really read much past this first part.

I became distracted by the um... political mastery of double speak.

You cant judge Islam by the actions of a few muslims.
You have to judge Islam by the lies told to protect Islam.


If any lies were told to protect Islam, surely they would be the actions of a few muslims.

You cant judge Islam by the history of the religion
You have to judge Islam by evils commited by other groups in the past.


This has been pointed out by Amuk when he asked, "Why would you say Islam should not be judged by its history BUT all others MUST be?"

You cant judge Islam by the scripture
You have to judge Islam by Islams good intentions


Isn't Islamic Scripture the basis of Islamic intentions regardless of their interpretation as good or evil?



[edit on 13-11-2004 by Raphael_UO]



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 11:00 AM
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Let me get you a towel so you can wipe off the sarcasm the splashed on you from that post.

If any lies were told to protect Islam, surely they would be the actions of a few muslims.

Islam is a departure from "abrahamic faiths" @ least Christianity as I understand it as it adopted a lie for allah standard of behaviorMuslims can renounce their faith (Barack Obama) or to achieve a treaty when in a week postion .
I am unsure about how much rank and file muslims know about what there "holy books " say.
From what I read most are "Christman and easter" Muslims
merely reciting a book in a langauge they dont really understand everyday.
If they understand the message of Islam and they fail to reject Islam they are the enemy of freedom, liberety & equality.



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by TruthStrgnrThanFiction
90% of Islam is actually an APOCOLYPTIC faith..IE alot of Islams focus is on the "end times" ...or to put it this way Islam relies on the "end of the world" situation as a fuel for its fire..bringing us to the second point ...READ THE KORAN RESEARCH IT ONLINE...ISLAM beleives it will "subdue" "conquer" "control" "overcome" "subject" the ENTIRE WORLD (that includes seculiar) to its beliefs BEFORE "JUDGEMENT DAY"


Islam is just yet another false religion. But speaking of apocalyptic developments, Islam is the Gravedigger of Judaism and Christianity

The final stage of a fight with islamic terrorism heartbreakingly resembles a plot of a famous movie "Titanic". But this time all the confronting forces gathered aboard a symbolic ship "Titanic 2", and only those will escape with their lives who will manage to leave it during the trip. In my articles I do not rely on the data from regular media, as they only reflect something that has already taken place. And to me all that does not present any interest, for the overall plan of the developing events and unavoidable stage of the destruction of the USA and a whole christian psycholayer, including Judaism, were known to me long long ago, thanks to the technical capabilities of Cosmic Relaxation. Admittedly, later on this cup of woe will not miss the world of Islam as well.



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
Can you point to the chapter and verse he used to authorize his actions?


Wie,theo van goch..bedoel jie...
Have you seen the film??



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by Horus_Re

Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
Can you point to the chapter and verse he used to authorize his actions?


Wie,theo van goch..bedoel jie...
Have you seen the film??

Can you try that again in english?



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by TruthStrgnrThanFiction
islam believes exactly what i posted...that the whole world will be under its control before judgement day.


That statement is false. I am a muslim and I can tell you that is exactly the opposite of what Muslims believe.

Islam teaches that once there is not a single 'True believing' Muslim in the world, Judgement day will come. It will be the end of the world.

Go do some research before posting anything that comes to your mind.

[edit on 11/10/2009 by silencer]



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by KAOSKTRL
 

Hands off islam!


For a moment there I thought this was a thread about shariah law and the removal of hands.



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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I wanna know why this thread is not in BTS, where ALL Christian "rap" threads are sent these days. Another thread to defend the muslim faith, have at it, but it does not belong in ATS/Conspiracies.



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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KAOSKTRL,
Great thread. I must say, I wasn't even going to read it. I thought it was another person just defending another religion but it was really thought provoking. Thanks. I starred and flagged.



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by silencer

Originally posted by TruthStrgnrThanFiction
islam believes exactly what i posted...that the whole world will be under its control before judgement day.


That statement is false. I am a muslim and I can tell you that is exactly the opposite of what Muslims believe.

Islam teaches that once there is not a single 'True believing' Muslim in the world, Judgement day will come. It will be the end of the world.

Go do some research before posting anything that comes to your mind.

[edit on 11/10/2009 by silencer]


Is why they embrace death because once they are all dead they will meet Allah and that is when they get their virgins?

I know the murderer at Fort Hood was asked not long ago to give his opinion on suicide bombers, he said "we embrace death more than you embrace life" --- strrrrrrrrange.



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni
Is why they embrace death because once they are all dead they will meet Allah and that is when they get their virgins?


You cannot generalize. You have to look at the big picture. Some of these Muslims are convinced that the Western world is their enemy. This is what drives them to do suicide bombings. It is not the virgins that entices as much as the MSM would love to portray that.

There is a war going on. Most of these people in Afghanistan and Iraq did not ask for it. They are being bombed and killed everyday. Some of them have lost their homes, families, everything. They have nothing to live for.

I personally believe that unless a person has experienced full on war in their own backyard, they can never understand the pain some of these people are experiencing. It's easy to sit at your house behind a keyboard and judge people. It's a different story when there are tanks outside in your street.

Another thing people ignore to address is that both the wars were started on lies and deception. When people die there, its collateral damage, but if a single person is killed here in the U.S., it's a terrorist attack. People here call them terrorists. If you were in their shoes over there, then the illegal U.S. occupation perpetrators would be the terrorist. Terrorism is in the eye of the beholder.


I know the murderer at Fort Hood was asked not long ago to give his opinion on suicide bombers, he said "we embrace death more than you embrace life" --- strrrrrrrrange.


Nothing strange about it. Ask any soldier if they would die for their country and they would give you a big YES.

[edit on 11/10/2009 by silencer]



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