It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Whom to Believe? Masons? Anti-Masons?

page: 1
0
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 11:06 AM
link   
Ladies and Gentlemen:

We're at an impasse, it would seem, when it comes to arguments by Masons and Anti-Masons. We, the Masons, claim one thing (the truth), and the Anti-Masons claim another (that our truth is not the truth, because they know better.)

We claim one thing, and they claim another. It has been put to them that since we are Masons and they are not, how can they claim knowledge of Masons? How can they have a basis for argument? The inevitable reply is: "your 'truth' is actually disinformation/masonic recruiting/lying/ideological spin." We claim free-will and the choice to come together in a fraternal spriit, and they claim that we are all vcitims of "group-think" - something akin to brainwashing. Though I'd wonder how so many famous and successful Masons, such as George Washington, Horatio Nelson, The Duke of Wellington, and writers, Presidents, entrepreneurs, and others, could have been brainwashed. Still, there is even an Anti-Masonic reply to THIS! And so the argument rolls on and on . . . .

Yes, we argue from a Masonic standpoint, and they argue from an Anti-Masonic standpoint. So, WHO CAN BE BELIEVED??

The greatest judge, the greatest equalizer is REASON. When all else fails, just use logic. Common sense. So, the following article is what I hope represents the very highest form of deliberation. The most simple and easiest way to get from questions to answers. It was written by a Mason. But drop that title, if you wish, and simply look for CLARITY.

Note that the problem even here, the real tragedy of this, is that even THIS article, this appeal to reason, will be seen as what, by Anti-Masons? That's right. You got it. More 'spin", more disinformation from the evil silver-tongued Masons. A sad state of affairs, to be sure, but we're in it, and it's time to tackle this problem like a tailback breaking through the Detroit Lions' secondary.

Thank you, and enjoy.

(from: home.swipnet.se...)

_____________________________________________________________________________________


Who can I believe?

This is from a discussion on Usenet. A person in doubt asked:

Now someone answer my question. How could I find out if the Freemasons here are lying? If I can't trust the anti-masons because they're biased then by the same logic I can't trust the masons.

Dr Roger Firestone answered:

A reasonable point. What you might want to do is investigate the history and character of both groups and see which of them is more likely to be credible.

The history of Freemasonry is well documented, and its major players include a vast number of contributors to society--men such as Washington, Truman, and Churchill in politics, Goethe, Schiller, and Conan Doyle in literature, Burl Ives, Ernest Borgnine, Gene Autry in the performing arts, Mozart, Haydn, and Irving Berlin in music, and on and on. Freemasons played essential roles in the civilization of the New World, taming the west, freeing Latin America (e.g., Bolivar was a Mason), and so on. Freemasons have established a vast array of charitable activities, primarily focussing on the health field, such as the famous Shriners' Children's Hospitals for treatment of orthopedic problems and burns, the Scottish Rite speech disorder clinics, the Masonic cancer centers, the Tall Cedars' activities for muscular dystrophy, and many others. Not to mention homes for the aged and even dormitory accomodations at the University of Texas.

Among the anti-Masons, one can count a single president of the US, John Quincy Adams (thirteen presidents were Masons), two literary figures (Edgar Allan Poe and Charles Dickens--and it is not clear whether Dickens was really an anti-Mason, or one who simply felt that the Masons of his time were not living up to their standards and were therefore hypocrites), and almost no one else of any consequence in history or who has made a significant contribution to the humanities. The anti-Masons operate no charitable groups but engage in fund-raising only to support themselves: They sell books for profit, seek donations to keep their "ministries" operating on television, and contribute nothing to society at large.

All of this is a matter of public record; these facts do not depend on one's ability to determine who is telling the truth. Further, we have the experience of history to teach us what to believe of a group of "anti-" somethings, whether they are anti-Semites, anti-Catholics, or anti-Masons. That historical experience has shown that those who single out a group, especially one different from the majority in society, for opprobrium and hatred are generally _not_ telling the truth about that group, but are seeking to benefit themselves from stirring up the passions of the mob.

In other words, if we knew nothing of the Masons nor of the anti-Masons, it would be difficult to know whom to believe. But we are not so ignorant as that. There are plenty of epistemological reasons to choose to believe that Masons are telling the truth in the present context, as opposed to accepting the word of the anti-Masons. (E.g., one epistemological principle is known as Occam's Razor--it tells us to accept the simplest hypothesis that explains the known facts. The anti-Masons, when confronted with their own contradictions, pile on ever more assumptions. Prove that "Lucifer" is not mentioned in the Symbolic Rite of the first three degrees and they will assert that it is the Scottish Rite that teaches "devil worship." Prove that there is no such thing in the 32 degrees, and they will claim it is taught in the 33rd degree. A denial by a 33rd degree Mason will lead to the attribution of Satanism to the Knights Templar. And so on. The simpler hypothesis is that there is no such Satanic nonsense in Freemasonry--given the conflict of assertions, Occam's Razor directs us to this choice.) The anti-Masons also engage in circular reasoning: They claim that there is a great "Masonic conspiracy" to control the world. Absent any evidence of that, they claim that the very lack of evidence is "proof" of the power of the conspiracy. (Too many Oliver Stone movies? Of course, even Congressmen have engaged in such reasoning, as in the case of the "October surprise" investigation, when Tom Foley suggested that the very lack of evidence was what justified a Congresional hearing. An inability to reason against one's own prejudices is not unique to the anti-Masons.)

In other words, there are very good reasons to believe that Masons, rather than anti-Masons are telling the truth about the Fraternity, based on the history of Freemasonry, the known character of those who have been Freemasons, and the principles of epistemology. Of course, if one is ignorant of the history and background of a witness, as well as ignorant of the theory of knowledge, one is at the mercy of every smooth-talking mountebank and charlatan to come along. (Why do you think that criminal defense lawyers seek the most uninformed jurors possible?)

Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH






[edit on 13-11-2004 by LTD602]




posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 04:29 PM
link   
Good post LTD.

I think, however, that those of us who would hear the truth over the rabble are going to hear it regardless, and those that try to detract from the truth are doomed to remain awash in a sea of ignorance.

You and I (and several others) heard it, regardless of the slander by sites like FW and their cronies (trolls).

I know that for me (aside from dialogue with the fine gents here) it was the sheer outlandishness of their claims against Masonry that convinced me of who was telling the truth. Hell, I came here with the preconception that masons were eeeeevil, but through research, asking questions, and thinking rationally, I have come to my obvious conclusion.

The sad thing is that the people who will accept what you have posted probably already would have, and those who would not never will.

The anti-Masons will probably always be just that. As long as there's good men to keep up the good fight though, those who would seek the truth shall find it, and we all know that the truth shall set you free.



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 01:36 AM
link   
As I often point out to you guys - there are NO anti-masons.
This is a ploy by your leadership to make you think you are under attack so you can justify your cowardly behavior.
Some poor single individual like myself finds themselves on the end of a ridiculous amount of abuse by literally hundreds or even thousands of "The Beautiful Brethren" by being painted out as belonging to some vague shadowy "Al Queda" type group to make them all feel like its a fair fight.
Wake up.



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 06:42 AM
link   

Originally posted by MrNECROS
As I often point out to you guys - there are NO anti-masons.
This is a ploy by your leadership to make you think you are under attack so you can justify your cowardly behavior.
Some poor single individual like myself finds themselves on the end of a ridiculous amount of abuse by literally hundreds or even thousands of "The Beautiful Brethren" by being painted out as belonging to some vague shadowy "Al Queda" type group to make them all feel like its a fair fight.
Wake up.


There isn't a Group where you can no good at all. So if we read a repeated critic' of Freemasonry from one individual or a group , it is reasonable to tag that person or group with the title "Anti" as there are anti Christians and Anti establishment. It does not make that person wrong or evil or unjust, It is just a description of who or what they are. Their conduct and responses determine that, not the opposition.

I may disagree with what you say but, will defend to the death your right to say it. On this weekend that should be acceptable to all.

But there is fault in your summation, " your leadership", in all honesty, and I have tried to display honesty on many occasions, grossly over rates the amount of influence that the Grand Lodges have over the individul Lodges is . I think what I think and have never been influenced by anyone else. To suggest so is to tell me I am incompetent, which trust me on this, I am not.

To justify what you term cowardly behaviour, I say ' tell the truth as you see it and let the Masons go hang'. If you come accross a Mason who will not defend his craft , then he has not learned anything. If you come accross a Mason who will not accept your critism in good faith, then he has not learned anything.

What you have to do is Match that?

If you come accross a Mason who abuses you or is insulting , he has learned nothing. If he lies to you or treats you disrespectfully, he has learned nothing.

All you have to do is match that.?

When all about you are losing their cool and you stand firm and tall, you are a Mason my son.

[edit on 14-11-2004 by billmcelligott]



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 08:38 AM
link   
Good article, LTD

Originally posted by LTD602
The greatest judge, the greatest equalizer is REASON. When all else fails, just use logic. Common sense.

When I came to ATS, I was pretty much anti-Masonry. After reading posts from Masonic Light, and then other Masons I came to recognize, I realized that Masonry is not the evil, power-hungry, etc. etc. group portrayed in conspiracy theories and FW.
The common sense rule of thumb indeed applies.
Good article LTD!

[edit on 14-11-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 09:18 AM
link   
Nice reading propaganda.

The author paints all non-masons that have negative attitudes about masonry for whatever reason as anti-masons. That seems to fit his theme nicely.

Every good point he points to about masonry may be well and good, it may be true.

Where are the other truths?
    Masonry has maintained continual presence in the leadership of the United States since the inception of the country-
    The U.S. has more people in prison as a percentage of population than any other country on the planet-
    The U.S. has rampant drug problems-


See how this works folks? If you (pro-masons) claim the pie is yours, then be magnanimous enough to wash the dishes as well.

    Masonry is an organization that excludes women from an equal status under the veil of fraternity while boasting of its good deeds to the community at large but never admitting the totality of its resources and income from those same communal sources.
    Masonry portrays a semi-independent public image of organization to prevent indepth external knowledge of its organization and structure.
    Masonry claims to embrace all religions on the basis of belief in a supreme being yet can show no place within its entire structure where the tenets of Christianity are admitted.
    ad infinitum

Pros and cons.

ATS has many, many mason threads. Virtually every one of them are similar to recruiting statements. This thread, like many others, revolves around the same theme- one is either pro-mason or anti-mason. When this is not so then the person (poster) is ignorant or wrong according to the pro-masons.

There was a time in America that the Ku Klux Klan could have posted a similar thread- there was a time in many countries where organizations that were exposed as harmful to society could have posted similar opening statements.

There was a time in America that slave owners could have posted a similar opening statement- are we to conclude then that they were right?



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 09:57 AM
link   
You're one of the Anti-Masons who make it so easy for me, Gadfly.

1.) Many American Presidents were also Masons.

Fine. Wonderful. I'm glad they achieved such success.

2.) The U.S. has a large, overcrowded prison system.

What has this got to do with Masons? Conclusive proof, please.

3.) U.S. has high rate of drug/use, many drug-users, etc.

What has this got to do with Masons? Conclusive proof, please.

Masons do NOT claim responsibility for ALL of society's ills. We DO NOT control the social activities of everyday people. ROFL. This is the WORST argument I have seen from you yet . . . . incredibly nebulous, held up by vague assumptions and blanket generalizations.

Women are excluded because we are a . . . . . *drum roll**

F-R-A-T-E-R-N-I-T-Y.

College fraternities do not admit women. Sororities do not admit men. If you object to OUR fraternity then you must necessarily object to these as well. Mind you, I wouldn't mind admission into a sorority (hehe.) Whatever . . . . lol, next . . . .

Yes, we HAVE rituals which are no one's business but our own. Apologies. Our organization structure is a matter of public record. Our lodges are in the phone book. They are clearly marked buildings. People simply wander in during open house events, have all kinds of questions about our structure and we answer all of them candidly. Have YOU ever attended one of these open houses?

Masonry requires belief in a Supreme Being. Christianity is NOT the only religion on the planet. There ARE others, some far older than Christianity (and far gentler.) Our rituals include God, and we use the Kings James version of the bible primarily, as well as other sacred texts as the members wish. As there ARE membgers of variuos faiths, we keep everything balanced enough so everyone can feel included. We have room for Allah as well, including the Buddha, The Taoist Masters, the Hindu Gods, Shinto deities, etc. The logic of this should not be difficult to understand.

If you're really serious about experiencing ALL aspect of Christianity, then there is a place for that. It's called Church. We are NOT a Christian church.

Recruiting threads?

Nope. We DO NOT proselytize. Against our rules. We defend Masonry. That is all. If someone gets interested, then fine. NOT ONCE has any Mason on these boards asked anyone to become a Mason.



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 11:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by PublicGadfly
ATS has many, many mason threads. Virtually every one of them are similar to recruiting statements. This thread, like many others, revolves around the same theme- one is either pro-mason or anti-mason. When this is not so then the person (poster) is ignorant or wrong according to the pro-masons.



Gadfly, I am starting to think you are never going to get it. As Bill pointed out earlier, of all the threads about Masonry on page one of this forum most are started by non Masons with qestions. This in no way can be construed as recruiting. No Mason here has ever invited or even encouraged (directly) anyone to join Masonry. Their standpoint has always been "If you seek, you shall find". SO WHAT? Do you expect these guys to just ignore the questions posed to them? Negative.

No one but you has said anything about being one or the other, pro-Mason or anti-Mason. You are indeed an anti-Mason, however, as is MrNECROS. Why? Because you disagree with the Masons? No. Because you voice your opinion? No. It is because you incessantly make baseless accusations as if they were facts, and routinely have your arguments cut to shreds (sometimes quite humorously). What makes you an anti is the fact that even though you have been proven wrong on many occasions you still come back spouting the same garbage. It seems that your sole purpose here is to ruffle feathers and paint an ugly picture of Masonry. Period.

That is what makes YOU (and others here) ANTI-Masonry. Someone can disagree and not be anti, does that make sense to you?

If people come here asking questions and decide that they don't agree - fine. Masonry is not for everyone. That doesn't make that person anti. That doesn't mean then they have to go around spouting hateful slander and false accusations, or support a website that is dedicated to such activities.

I don't agree with the RCC, it doesn't make me anti-Catholic and I certainly don't go around bashing the RCC, trying to make them look like eeeevil toilet vandals.


Get real, dude...



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 12:41 PM
link   

PG:.
Masonry has maintained continual presence in the leadership of the United States since the inception of the country-
The U.S. has more people in prison as a percentage of population than any other country on the planet-
The U.S. has rampant drug problems-


Christianity has maintained a presence in the management of the United States, but we do not hear anyone blaming Christianity.
With regard to Prison and Drugs, elect people who will change the situation then. You guys the US electors have the power to put into the top job , the person who can make changes. If your not satisfied , change it


Masonry is an organization that excludes women from an equal status under the veil of fraternity while boasting of its good deeds to the community at large but never admitting the totality of its resources and income from those same communal sources.
Masonry portrays a semi-independent public image of organization to prevent in-depth external knowledge of its organization and structure.
Masonry claims to embrace all religions on the basis of belief in a supreme being yet can show no place within its entire structure where the tenets of Christianity are admitted.


The rest of society has not managed to create a level playing field, but we expect Freemasons to do this?
OK we can get Masons to stop giving money to Charity that’s easy, all you have to do is pay more taxes to fill the gap.
Christianity has not been a part of the government of the United States but again you want Freemasonry , a group that has an explicit policy of non sectarianism to act like a Church. Even the Church has a bad record on all the criticism you have levied



ATS has many, many mason threads. Virtually every one of them are similar to recruiting statements. This thread, like many others, revolves around the same theme- one is either pro-mason or anti-mason. When this is not so then the person (poster) is ignorant or wrong according to the pro-masons.


Quite simply if you do not believe that freemasonry is a benefit you or your friends , don’t join. Said it many times. Don’t need your money, or your presence, if you have any doubts don’t join.


There was a time in America that the Ku Klux Klan could have posted a similar thread- there was a time in many countries where organizations that were exposed as harmful to society could have posted similar opening statements.

There was a time in America that slave owners could have posted a similar opening statement- are we to conclude then that they were right?


You may care to note I believe every Prince Hall Grand Lodge is recognised by United Grand Lodge of England and approximately 80% of US 'white' Grand Lodges. However I personally would be pleased if Prince hall was not required and that all masons would sit in a Lodge side by side without reference to colour or religion. But just lets hold a minute and remeber that we as a society have come a long way on the equal rights issue, it would be gret if we had done better, but we have done very well. Much more to do.



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 12:43 PM
link   
Whom to believe? Hmmm.... How about neither one of you?



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 12:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Whom to believe? Hmmm.... How about neither one of you?


Hmmmm . . . . . well . . . . neutral enough for me.

Indifference. What's not to like about that?



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 12:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by LTD602
Indifference. What's not to like about that?


It's not indifference. It's realizing the agenda of each side who will, at all cost, either bathe Masonry in white light, or show it pitted in hell.

I am neutral, because I'm not going to get caught up in either of your Ra-Ra-Ra cheerleading fervors.

But, I'm not a Mason, so feel free to attack me.



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 01:03 PM
link   
Ok.

You'll get no attacks from me on that point.



----- now where did I put my pom-poms . . . . . . ?



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 04:39 PM
link   
Axeman you rant upon me, why?

Show me ONE baseless charge I have levied, just one.

The opening post to this thread was propaganda pure and simple.

LTD's post leads in with a call for “”reason and common sense,”” then degenerates into to the same old “”what-good-guys-we-be”” roll. Where's the reason in that?

Where's the common sense in blindfolding someone, telling them they are without knowledge - - - - - or having them empty their pockets and later asking them to pay their dues (knowing they have no wallet on them) - - - the whole masonic indoctrination. It is trickery and sleight of hand. The cover for all this hocus-pocus is that it supposedly teaches an important lesson in morality.

Pro-masons speak up for this because they would never admit they were tricked and continue to pay dues.
Pay dues, buy tickets, go to Shrine carnivals
pay dues, buy tickets, go to Shrine carnivals
. . . .
Money and control- that's what masonry is.

Separation of church and state bill, the churches have never been in control of the U.S. but from time to time the mason have.

Masons are anti-nationalistic and promote one-worldness. For some that works out well, for many others it is economic slavery under a shroud of platitudes.

I laugh every time I see a pro-mason rant about the KKK and their hood- reminds of a Shrine parade. Speaking of which- when was the last Shrine parade in Compton?



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 06:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by PublicGadfly
Axeman you rant upon me, why?

Show me ONE baseless charge I have levied, just one.


OK how about the assertion that Masons are required to lie for one another? The issue has been explained rationally, yet you refuse to accept the explanation. You twisted the words to make it sound as if telling a man something in confidence is the same as asking that man to lie for you. You asked for an example...


The opening post to this thread was propaganda pure and simple.

LTD's post leads in with a call for “”reason and common sense,”” then degenerates into to the same old “”what-good-guys-we-be”” roll. Where's the reason in that?


Well think about it. Do Freemasons go about pushing their ideals on people? Of course not. A man has to want to know in order to find the information. All the guy did was point out the obvious fact that throughout history Freemasons have been upright successful men with integrity and who give back to their community. The people that would tell you Masonry is evil does so while passing around a collection plate, or from their TV soapbox asking for what? YOUR MONEY! "Buy this book for only $19.99 and you too can see the Freemasons for the eeevil reptilians they are!" Meanwhile, where do you think THAT money goes? Hmmm?? Into one guy's pocket, I would imagine.

Yeah Masons pay dues to keep the bills paid and to GIVE TO CHARITY.

The reason comes into play when you ask yourself... "Should I trust someone who is trying to make money from slandering others or should I trust someone who gives to others freely asking nothing in return? It's pretty obvious to me.


Where's the common sense in blindfolding someone, telling them they are without knowledge - - - - - or having them empty their pockets and later asking them to pay their dues (knowing they have no wallet on them) - - - the whole masonic indoctrination. It is trickery and sleight of hand. The cover for all this hocus-pocus is that it supposedly teaches an important lesson in morality.


HOW WOULD YOU KNOW???



Pro-masons speak up for this because they would never admit they were tricked and continue to pay dues.
Pay dues, buy tickets, go to Shrine carnivals
pay dues, buy tickets, go to Shrine carnivals
. . . .
Money and control- that's what masonry is.


Well they're not getting your money, so why do you care? Do you really think if a man thought he had been "tricked" that he would continue to pay and participate? I sure wouldn't. If what you argue were true there would be no Masons. I imagine everyone would quit if it was some big scam to get your money.


Separation of church and state bill, the churches have never been in control of the U.S. but from time to time the mason have.


No. Leaders have been Masons, but this doesn't man Masons as a group were "in control". It just means that particular Mason did well for himself in politics. How can you claim the Masons had "control of the US" when politics is a taboo subject when Masons gather as such? Do you think if there was a Republican Mason presidential candidate the Democrat Masons would vote for the Republican just because he was a Mason? No. The political diversity in the fraternity can be witnessed on this very board. I just don't see how that argument holds water.


Masons are anti-nationalistic and promote one-worldness.


How so? One of the main things is that you have allegiance TO YOUR COUNTRY AND ITS LAWS. Masonry promotes brotherhood of Man, I would say, not necessarily one-worldness.

That's PNAC's job.



I laugh every time I see a pro-mason rant about the KKK and their hood- reminds of a Shrine parade. Speaking of which- when was the last Shrine parade in Compton?


First of all, what in the world do KKK hoods have to do with Shriners or a Shrine parade? I think you are reaching here...

Besides, when was the last time there was ANY kind of parade in Compton? Probably the last time people could even go through Compton without getting shot at heheh. I damn sure wouldn't get caught there. Arkansas white-boy hanging out in Compton? No thanks... I like living bullet-hole free.

Besideds that I'm sure the Shriners would not want to have their tiny motorcycles jacked.


On a serious note I would say that if a kid from Compton needed some help and his family asked the Masons he would be alot more likely to be helped than not.

Do you guys really ride those things or is that some joke? Just curious...



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 06:43 PM
link   
Actually, we ARE good guys, overall.

We like what we do. We're teachers, students, janitors, lawyers, managers, postal workers, dog-walkers, lifeguards, taxi-drivers, politicians, pensioners, military, entrepreneurs, etc.

6 miliion of us worldwide. Oldest and largest fraternity in the world.

No, it's not for everyone. We don't recruit anyone. They come to us. Lodge dues (both the one-time memebership fee and the yearly fee) go toward fuding our lodge (bills, hydro, maintenance, etc.) and funding our major events. No, we don't have money for everything, and we do have to find deals, in many cases. Part of our dues go to chairty BY DEFAULT, and members are free to make charitable contributions at any time. For instance, our Lodge held an event last year to raise money for a local women's shelter. In previous years, our lodge did quite a bit for the salvation army. Last year, our current Senior Warden (he'll be Master in May), got together wuth a mnior-league hockey team in our province and raised money to build a hospice for dying children. He himself, adores his family - he has 8 children, and makes time for all of them - you name it, hockey practice, trips, etc.

Another one of our members - whom we admire greatly, is a an 84-year old veteran. He served in the war, flew Liberators, and did indeed see action. He is a Christian, and he was telling me how much he loves and misses his wife, who was also a "fine Christian woman", by his admission. When I was getting ready for my inititatin in one of the upstairs rooms, he CLIMBED TWO FLIGHTS OF STAIRS - he can barely walk, but he climbed those damned stairs just to chat with me and get to know me, see if I needed anything.

THAT is the kind of man that is found commonly in Masonry.

Have fun, Gadfly.






posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 07:43 PM
link   
As a Freemason I would tend to believe my Brethren. I would not believe people who say that Freemasons have destroyed their toilets
drudged them, subjected them to mind control. I think that this kind of person needs help as he has lost his sense of reality.

As a Freemason I will debate the merits of Freemasonry and its contribution to society. I have found in my 15 years as a Freemason that it is a society of men who help others. Is that such a bad thing.

It is possible that there is a secret level of Freemasons who are so powerful and secret that only the anti- Freemasons know about them
This thread shows the contempt that the hate mongers have for Freemasonry. I can only speculate why that is.

Brother/Ven Frater Gerard O'Donnell



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 08:09 PM
link   
Well...

Let me state Im not a freemason but I do love my brethen and my sisters of this planet.

I hold an open mind to all groups, it does not matter if it is the kkk, bnp, illumanati, christianty, islam or any other form of mind control.

As for the anti masons, there has to be two sides to a story, because you never know? And no Im not a anti mason either.

Like I said I am an individual who holds an open mind to all groups in this unvirse that humankind live in. For myself I read learn and make of what I can with all types of phiolosphies in this world.

To all people of any kind of race in any group that your afflaited with, just remember that there is always an agenda the question is are you part of it or not?




posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 08:38 PM
link   
Yes, there are indeed two sides to a story. Often though, only one side is right, although you can be understanding toward both sides.



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 08:47 PM
link   
      quote: Originally posted by PublicGadfly
      Axeman you rant upon me, why?

      Show me ONE baseless charge I have levied, just one.

    ii]Originally posted by Axeman
    OK how about the assertion that Masons are required to lie for one another? The issue has been explained rationally, yet you refuse to accept the explanation. You twisted the words to make it sound as if telling a man something in confidence is the same as asking that man to lie for you. You asked for an example...

BuuuuuuuT that is NOT baseless! Rationality is subjective at best.

The “”charge”” is based (see this?) on masonic oath. The pro-masons twist like a wet strand of spaghetti explaining why it really is not what it says.

For your edification, here it is (yet again) in masonry's own words”
    A Master Mason’s secrets given to me in charge as such, and I knowing him to be such, shall remain as secure and inviolable in my breast as in his own…murder and treason excepted (and these at my own discretion).

I added the (and . . .) part because I know that it exists in some oaths but can't find it on my HD at the moment.

Be that as it may- the MM (master mason) oath is pretty clear. Pro-masons tend to blow this off as being mere allegory for some greater truth.
Here's something pretty clear-
    Tim. 5:21-22, “I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men’s sins: keep thyself pure.”

The use of the allegory excuse is pervasive to masonry as you have witnessed in these threads.

You (Axeman) go on to state politics is a taboo subject in masonry- did you just fall off a cabbage truck? Anyone that believes the taboo line hasn't been around many masons.

IF it were taboo then why, pray tell, would masons continually point to political leaders that were/are masons?

That can't be too terribly difficult to grasp.

Back to where we were-
1 to 0
me to you

Can you give me ONE example of a baseless charge?

How about quit pumping masonry and give me ONE baseless charge if you can.

*good humor on Compton- what would a mini-cycle be worth there?




top topics



 
0
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join