On the verge of leaving religion behind as "poison", but where does morality come from then?

On the verge of leaving religion behind...

evidence shows that religion, spirituality and mythology is all about exploitation.

I always thought the problem was a mixture of power and religion, rather than religion itself.

Congrats...

This is you on religion:

You are correct about one thing, religion IS about exploitation

That is the reason that God HATES it.

Most confuse Religion with God.

They are OPPOSITES.

Satan is the author of religion, NOT God.

The thing that makes absolutely no sense to me is why people bother to even look for God in Religion...

Like my sig says, that is the LAST place you will ever find him.

God and religion are completely separate entities that get intertwined together by man.

Religion is a massive LIE masquerading as the truth.

Satan is using Religion to be LIKE God.

This is what got him thrown out of Heaven.

This is also why he is referred to as the god of this world.

He also uses Religion to cause people to hate God.

This is the real agenda behind all of the atrocities committed by Religion.

"Religion was manufactured long ago by men who wished to control the masses. In essence, religion was the first form of mind control. Because of religion, the Illuminati has been able to work in secret for many, many years. Every major religion in the world has been infiltrated by the Illuminati. A group that calls themselves Light Feet has installed Illuminati members in every major religion of the world.

All false religions are illuminati created

"Today the religions of the world remain a major tool of the Illuminati agenda." Link

halfoldman
reply to post by RealWoman

 

Well said, and nothing wrong with that as such.
But is that what really happens?
Is the law always fair, and justice blind?
Would all communities view that the same way?

And besides, where does that law come from?

If the law (wheresoever it comes from) = justice, then why did the US need so many movements from minorities for justice in history?

edit on 13-9-2013 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

You missed the point: That you have other guides to teach children morals other than religious text. And no, law does Not come from religion. Some may coincide, but religion is not the source.

RealWoman

halfoldman
reply to post by RealWoman

 

Well said, and nothing wrong with that as such.
But is that what really happens?
Is the law always fair, and justice blind?
Would all communities view that the same way?

And besides, where does that law come from?

If the law (wheresoever it comes from) = justice, then why did the US need so many movements from minorities for justice in history?

edit on 13-9-2013 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

You missed the point: That you have other guides to teach children morals other than religious text. And no, law does Not come from religion. Some may coincide, but religion is not the source.

There are guides that teach children morals that are not religious text - that is true.

But to state law does not come from religion and that it's a coincidence is mostly incorrect. True, modern banking/real estate/etc laws are not in any scriptures...but the basics of laws are. Religious law is the source of all law - the religious cartels had, and still do, a huge influence in how we live.

It all stemmed from the controlling spiritual leads of our past. Hence, it derived from religion...which I thought was the main topic.

For a person to deny that is illogical IMO.

reply to post by SaturnFX

Atheism isn't a belief, it is simply an observation.

Atheism to some is just as powerful of a religion as Christianity. When you become a 'militant' atheist and start treating people poorly because of your supposed knowledge of 'knowing' there is no God, then you aren't better than those who claim there is.

There may be a god, there may be hundreds, or none at all, or something so out of definition of what we can understand as a deity that it would be difficult to reconcile our religious understanding of a deity to the truth, etc.

And that's my take on it. I don't know and I don't really care to know tbh, so having arguments with people about whose theory is correct is equally non productive.

A lot of people hate on atheism because they confuse it with gnostics...there is no difference between a gnostic atheist demanding there is no god, and a gnostic theist demanding he knows for sure that (insert religion here) god is the one true god and all others are hellbound unless they convert.

I don't confuse the two at all. I don't hate on any particular religion or belief system.

~Tenth

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken"

Here's where problem with Christianity began:

-The original intent of the gospel was to reform JEWISH tradition and teach them the error of their way. The were the lost sheep of Israel; the ceremonially religious that promoted the dogmas and traditions of their faith while hiding the "keys of knowledge" for themselves, earning the title "hypocrite."

-The disciples were told to "go unto the lost sheep" and "not into the way of the gentile or the Samaritan."

There were 12, until Judas was replaced by a 'drawing of lots' between Matthew and Barnabus;

-Matthew became the replacement disciple, not Barnabus, and not Paul.

-Paul was a self-proclaimed apostle of "Christ." He claimed that HE was instructed by God to proclaim the gospel to the Gentiles. Paul was a Pharisee, the religious sect that Jesus originally came to chastise.

-Paul's letters account for 66% of the new testament. They are noticeably different in their 'tone' than that of the gospels. His doctrine is directly refuted by James, especially in the debate of "faith without works." James' Letters attempt to put things in perspective using a simplistic and direct approach. It is easy to see that Paul's letters are very confusing. One might even say he is an "author of confusion."

-Paul preaches the doctrine of "Christ" and refers to this "Christ Jesus", putting emphasis on Christ and the crucifixion. Strangely, he refers to himself as a "slave of Jesus Christ' in that order. His doctrine is centered around the crucifixion as the required mode of "salvation" based solely on the belief that this took place in order to appropriate our sinful deeds.

-Secondary to Paul's emphasis on the crucifixion is his doctrine of the 'body of Christ.' While he preaches blind faith in the crucifixion of Christ, he also preaches that 'believers' are the members of the same body of Christ. This, of course is the central theme of the church.

-He also seems to have taken on the task of identifying and delivering the 'holy spirit' and is the first to mention the 'gifts' of the spirit available only to the members of the body of Christ.

-His doctrine is 'Christianity,' ...again with the focus on 'Christ' which is the 'other' Christ mentioned by Jesus that was to come. This Christ consists of the 'members' of its body, and thereby is the reason I believe this body is what is referred to as the 'Beast' in revelation. It fits the description. I could go on about this as others have, complete with numbers adding up to 666 and all the other BS that people feed their semiotic lusts with, but I'm tired of being 'that guy'. I believe doing this leaves room for error and coincidental connections...

anyway...

-There are many solid connections to be made based on the words of Jesus and his warnings of who and what would come after him.

Such as:

-Jesus warns of the leaven (false doctrine) of the Pharisees
-Those who will come after him preaching a different 'Christ'
-Those who would THINK they were doing a service to God, but in reality would be responsible for many deaths
-The one who is called "Least" -and teaches men to transgress (Paul means little/small in greek)
-The one who would come in sheep's clothing but inside is a 'ravening wolf' (Paul is from the tribe of Benjamin. In Genesis 49, the tribes of Israel are listed with a sort of profile for each. Benjamin is listed last and is described as "a ravening wolf"
-Jesus listed his 12 disciples and called them the apostles. Paul called himself an apostle.

I believe Paul's 2/3 of the NT contain many 'tares' that had to have been allowed to grow up with the wheat. But where is the wheat found? I'll get to that...The rest Is that the broad path that was mentioned that leads to death. I believe it is clear in it's focus on the death of Christ as the very means of salvation. "there is a way that seems right to a man, but that way ends in death". Sounds like this path seems right to most, yet leads to death. But I believe there is a much ,much narrower path that we must seek than that which we are left with. it is from this portion that we can 'discern' the truth.

A interesting thing to consider is that once we have an idea of what it is that we are seeking, even Paul's doctrine can be seen in that light and it becomes apparent that his doctrine is actually a visible warning and EXAMPLE of the path leading to death. It becomes clear that what he is preaching is the reality of the current condition and path the reader is on. He knows this path because of the fact that the seeker reading in his doctrine!

So to me, it is safe to say that we are free to believe whatever we choose, even if we decide to overlook details that are there for the purpose of changing our mind...or the simplicity that is found in statements that would undoubtedly resolve a multitude of disputed contradiction...such as:

"God is love" , "there is no fear in love" , "nothing is impossible with god" , "take heart" , "do not lose heart" , "this people honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from me" , "the son who is in the bossom of the father" , "I am in the father" , "the father speaks through me" , "I speak not on behalf of myself" , "because of the hardness of their hearts..." , "the law is written on the tablets of the heart" , "I receive not my doctrine from man" , "The whole have no need for a physician" , "seek YE first the kingdom of God" , "the kingdom is within you"

The fruit of this "common" faith can be observed in Christianity and is best described as hypocrisy. "but go and learn what this means, I desire mercy and not sacrifice."

I refuse to deny myself, not out of narcissism but out of healthy self love and respect. I learned that it is impossible to give something to another that you do not have. So one must learn to love and respect themselves for who they are, despite their inability to satisfy the 'model' that is shoved in our face. We must deny the notion that conforming to a faith that is shared by almost 2 billion members of this 'body' is the narrow path.The only narrow path is the path of an INDIVIDUAL and not that of a shared faith. Forget righteousness, it is nothing more than sheep's clothing that can be worn by anyone. It is a backwards model and is the same as only "washing the outside of the cup." The most difficult task for us in this world is the ability to trust in ourselves without relying on a majority as evidence of truth.

But, for the sake of those who need this reassurance, the truth is still there in the bible, requiring many 'stripes' before being accepted. I am telling you, the undoing of the damage caused by Christianity is a nightmare, but your labor wouldn't be in vain and will leave you stronger and more passionate about the constant struggle for life.

Once we stop believing out of fear and shame, and start trusting in the truth that only exists in the heart, we will see that the only evil is ignorance and is fed to us from without. Aren't we all here to 'deny ignorance'?

There is a seed that exists in all of us. After being planted it requires nourishment. This is our inner tree of life. We can either nourish it with love and respect for ourselves and or neighbor, or we can extinguish by conforming to a belief that is dangerously contrary to the truth our heart knows.

I should add that I only suggest striving to see that simple truth in the bible that has been left as an exit strategy, for those who are struggling with loosening the noose that religious dogmas have placed around their necks. And it is that way...any time the act of thinking for one's self causes doubt to enter the mind, that noose tightens up. I have felt this before, especially when I began to dispute this faith openly among other Christians. Think of it in that light, imagine that noose around your neck and know that the truth sets you free of that noose...BUT not in the way you imagine, you must not loosen it and slip it off. That is like trying to wiggle your way out of a spiders web. Just like people attempt to use logic alone, instead of the tools already given in the scriptures themselves. And this is valuable for those who have already been influenced by this conditioning. It is healthier to "realize" these things than to just "hope" you got it right. So Instead, you must simply KNOW that noose isn't there. That's what the truth is like. And no, it isn't some enlightening ultimate truth.

It is just the realization, clearly spelled out, saying:

"pay attention! You should not be in this book looking for your life...but in case your are, I have provided many examples that should 'excite' you to the point of this realization and cause a change of heart. But if you harden your heart and continue on this path, deny yourself and bear the burden of your cross the entire way, I'll go ahead of you in this narrative and show you what the end will look like, but if you heed the advice given or take it as wisdom, in the light of searching for the truth, then perhaps you will have the heart to influence others in the same way."

'with God, nothing is impossible' 'God is Love' ....see, just those two alone could contradict numerous things.

'For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

See the freedom that is given here? People just have difficulty seeing the authority in scriptures like these because they are not THREATENING. And they certainly are coming from the same source, with the same authority they are given, just aren't taken to heart like the others. These statements and others like them are there for a reason! And that reason is YOU CHOSE how to think and how to believe. It's up to you what you do with the things you have given authority to. I gave authority to these scriptures and others like them because I personally believe these things. The amount of wisdom in the bible is abundant if taken in the correct light, objectively. But it isn't found in blind obedience and submission, it is found in finding the snares, fearlessly rejecting false promises and threats. Not fearing God, with confidence that "there is no fear in love" and so on...

Of all the variation in opinion and viewpoints of the authors, shouldn't we choose what is good for us and mankind as a whole? Its only those who care for their own lives that will overlook the 'bits' being fed to the horse's mouth. Even those that would see this first hand, if they fear for their own salvation and find their faith convenient, they will deny these things.

Again, this advice is for those who are on the fence. If you have that feeling that something is wrong with this 'common' faith, it means you "have life" in you. It means that your heart has detected danger, falsehood, some sort of threat. That is a natural sign of survival and the BEAUTIFUL thing about it is that it is a sign that your true nature is still fighting to prevail against conditioning!

One more thought:

at least 2 billion Christians and even those outside of that faith believe in the prophecy of revelation, or are at least influenced by it in some way. This prophecy is crippling to our world and is causing loss of hope for one another while generating fear and desire individuals to save themselves. It is this notion of wrath coming from God that breeds hypocrisy and hatred. Christians THINK the reason for this prophecy is because of the abominations of the world such as homosexuality (not my personal though, just an example) etc. WRONG, it is there, again as an EXAMPLE and REMINDER of the example of the narrative in the NT about that particular broad path leading to death. It is my concern that because they BELIEVE this will happen, they are ATTRACTING it, along with all of the disasters that happen continuously because they ALWAYS ANTICIPATE THE FULFILLMENT OF THIS PROPHECY. I truly believe in the law of attraction and believe this is what is responsible for prophecy being fulfilled.

Here's the deal:

What we have been given is a ticking time bomb. It is a very clever way to self destruct! If enough believe this, it is because they didn't have the HEART to resist this outrageous faith and were NOT DOERS of the word, which is really just the practice of love for one another and generally 'giving a s#!t' ...in this sense, we can all see our selves as the body of Christ and Christ as the Earth being betrayed by his own followers (just as Judas) for 30 pieces of silver (false promise of salvation) -(note: salvation and silver share a root) ...up in till the crucifixion (destruction of the world) while the world wears their crown of thorns (dumbing down, confusion, reprobate mind) nailed to the cross (paralyzed because of their faith) and pierced in their side (continuous bleeding, time ticking) ...So WE must DENY this prophecy!

What would you bet the elite have a shelter and plan for their own safety during this event? It's time to stop wrestling with this faith and realize we need to stop FEEDING it.

It is quite simple, I treat people like I want to be treated. I don't intentionally cause harm to others, and am happy to be happy for you and your family/friends if you get all you want out of life and are healthy.

No ancient texts or mythology required for this.

reply to post by eggman90

Well said, and I think "do unto others" (like one would like to be treated) is a core of the best teaching of Christianity, and probably already Confucius before that.

For that to really work I'd guess however that one would need equal intentions and power between people and cultures.

Dominant religions and cultures may find a tribe in the jungle who are nothing like "ourselves".
How they may treat and view us actually becomes totally irrelevant in the cultural power relationship.
The moral question to us might become a choice between keeping them in a "human zoo", or including them in "our civilization".
That is, we may view them as children, while our culture knows what is best.

We have to make choices for them - and ultimately there are no easy answers to what we would have chosen in a similar situation.
We simply don't know what is best.

Now, in a post-colonial situation like that: how can we ever know we are treating others like we would like to be treated?

Perhaps some in the jungle tribe would like hospitals and houses and electricity; while others just want to be left alone?
Some might say missionaries brought peace and increased the population; while others say they destroyed the culture.

Do we ever have enough information to give to causes that may meddle in the lives of others?
I'd think the best we can hope for is a kind of inconsequential meddling.
Some pots and pans to pacify the tribe, and perhaps some basic medicine to save lives.

That's probably the worst option: changing the tribe without offering full modern benefits (and thus leaving them as squatters), but it is what our culture regards as a compromise of good neighborliness under the pretext of "gradual development" to such tribal peoples.

EnochWasRight
reply to post by halfoldman

 

reply to post by halfoldman

 

If you judge this rightly, you can follow the fruit of your decision to the truth. Choosing to disallow God as truth means you have a variety of new choices in life. All of those choices will lead to rotten fruit. Choosing to see God as truth disallows the actions that lead to rotten fruit. There is a passage in John that basically states that a person who follows the will of God will know the truth behind the Gospel. This is the only way to actually see the merit of what Christ came to show us. Ignoring truth means that you have the freedom to choose error, yet that very choice then robs you of what Truth is there to show you. By choosing to restrain the choice of sin, you are anchoring your motive on the goodness of truth itself, therefore engaging the evidence for truth by default. This works in opposite. If you engage sin with no restraint, you are acting against truth. What happens in this case? Truth is still there, but crushes you as a result of poor choices acting against truth.

Break the law and the law breaks you. All actions have a reaction and we recognize morality by the fact that it is founded on truth. Disbelief in God is a licence to break the law, yet the law cannot be disallowed. Belief in God restrains us in life, but engages a fruitful life in exchange. Only positive can come from using the law to your advantage and this advantage comes to those who have faith in the governor of the law. Ultimately, this is the very evidence that scripture promises to show you as proof positive there is a God behind scripture. At no point can the invariable nature of truth be shown to be a lie. It is the same no matter how you look at it. The morality you are referring is simply a higher standard given to us as reflected in nature. In physics, this is the invariant symmetry of the strong nuclear force. It is the guardian of the strong house (Father). In Hebrew, the word Father is Aleph Bet. Aleph is strong and Bet is house. How do you disengage the need for law?

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The thing that draws you back is simple. When you trust your own version of reality you engage the law by choices motivated to take for self. When you trust God and live in His will (to give only), the law is pushed aside with faith and you give to others as a reflection. Where love abides, there is no need for law. There can be no more higher moral standard that this. God's goodness and truth is evident if you are in His will (giving over taking). If you walk away, that truth will become evident by the fire you burn by. Taking as a thief always ends in debt. Either you light the fire you burn by or you use that fire as a light on the path for others. It all depends on which side of truth you decide to walk. Taking makes you a thief. Giving makes you a saint. Test the waters and see how it goes. What are you able to do if God is false? What is the fruit that will follow? What harvest of goodness are you able to reap with restraint and patient endurance? In every case, restraint opens you up to more opportunity for good things in life. Why? You suffer for what you gain at the end.

Here is an easy example: Smoke and you suffer ill health. Why? You took a reward that ended in a debt. Flip this. Suffer a job and you get a paycheck. Work out in the gym and this suffering brings more health. Suffer your paycheck to your family instead of wasting it on cigarettes and booze and your family reaps the reward you give up. In the end, that family is your strong house when you are old. How is this different than being in God's family or walking away for your own selfish desires?

Either way, you'll see the truth of the matter if you know the truth already. It sounds like you do. I can easily make the clam that I know your motivation. How? It's the same for all of us. We desire for God to not be truth so we can have licence to take for self. This is why you know the difference and why morality is evident as a divine origin.

edit on 13-9-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

So much morality its comming out of your ears huh??

reply to post by halfoldman


That's why i mentioned not "intentionally" trying to harm others. We can all do that today purely by accident or coincidence.

Otherwise, I don't think I will rape or kill today, or any day, simply because it's wrong. And using fear of judgement or payback by a god is useless, since (I'm generalizing here) all is forgiven if one accepts the lord Jesus Christ as savior and repents for ones sins. A meaningless gesture. It's not stopping pedophile priests all over the world, apparently.

reply to post by halfoldman


The term "religion" has been given such a bad reputation by those that are of the world that there are now Christians claiming to be 'against religion' for a "true relationship" with Jesus, which is a prime example of an oxymoron. They are displacing the Bible as the word of God (the very book that gave them the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ to begin with) in a pathetic attempt to try and feel more 'accepted' by the world. They are lying to themselves and to others when they claim they are not religious and then claim to have a "personal relationship" with Jesus in the same breath, it is pure double speak. Here is what the Bible says about true religion.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. - James 1:27

"Pure religion" doesn’t include the many false religions out there that are all rooted in the ancient mystery religion of Babylon, "the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth". Now the video below explains in a nut shell where the knowledge of what is right and wrong comes from, its part 3 of a video series explaining why society collapses without God as the compass. We can clearly see looking at the state society is in today that humanity cannot possibly know what is morally right and wrong by their own judgment. Any attempts to set moral standards of how society should behave without using God as a benchmark always leads to moral decay and eventually the collapse of society.

There is no greater example of this then what is happening to America, a country whose populace at one point was a Christian majority and knew for a fact what was right and wrong using God as the benchmark. The same certainly cannot be said about America today. Those who claim they inherently know right from wrong only knows because of the benchmark that was set by God that they were taught or heard plenty about in the first place. The Declaration of Independence states that all men are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights".

As society continues to plummet into absolute depravity and abandons the commandments of God, our rights will continue to be trampled on. Until the spiritual decay of society is addressed, attempting to address any of the political and economic issues through elections or through any other means is pointless. This is why I don't waste my precious time with elections. It’s nothing more than a sideshow for the lost.

Stay Free (Part 3 - Where Morality Comes From):