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I Finally Understand Why Abortion Can't Be Discussed Logically.

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posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


I do not see the women getting an abortion or perhaps even the abortionist as intentionally offering the life of these children as a human sacrifice, yet the end result of the action is the taking of a human life.


Our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in the heavenly places" (Ephesians 6:12).


How could Satan do more to get back at God than to destroy innocent human life? Life God created in His own image.

The devil has a tool kit of our societal values that help him accomplish his mission. They are: Career, Convenience, Money, Lust and Self. These things we value are used as instruments that promote the idea of killing your own child. as the easy way out of a road block to your happiness,

This is why I quoted the verse from the Michael Card song - "Spirit of the Age."


Every age has heard it.
This voice that speaks from Hell.
"Sacrifice your children and
for you it will be well."


The devil doesn't show his face. He wears a mask.

You and I differ in the belief that God has no problem with abortion.

I don't need to strictly rely on the Bible to develop my conscience. My heart knows taking an innocent life is gravely wrong.

The most important words in the Bible come directly from God Himself.


Matthew 18:1-3 At that hour the disciples came to Jesus, saying: Who thinkest thou is the greater in the kingdom of heaven? 2 And Jesus calling unto him a little child, set him in the midst of them, 3 And said: Amen I say to you, unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.


You say abortion was rampant in Christ's lifetime. I doubt that it was among God fearing Jews.


edit on 12/3/2013 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 06:37 PM
link   
reply to post by windword
 

Dear windword,


You know I love a good spar.
Yes, I do. And I appreciate you for it. I have a suspicion that, on occasion, you see one of my posts and say "I can't respond to that. I agree with him!"

First, though, I owe you and everyone else an apology. Boy, did I blow it!

I said this and you nailed me for it, as you should have.

Since Numbers 5 is so uncertain, could you give me some of the many other places where God endorses abortion in the New Testament? Seeing other examples would clarify things. Thanks.
For some strange reason, possibility the onset of senility, I wrote "New" instead of "Old," which I had intended.

I was attempting to respond to your comment:

"How could our loving Christian God endorse abortions?" Well, he does, and he does so all through the Old Testament.
I was unable to find anyplace in the Old Testament where he endorsed an abortion. If He does all through the Old Testament, there should be examples aplenty. You make a good attempt with:

Not so fast!

Genesis 38:24
And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.

It seems that burning pregnant whores was a normal punishment.
In reading that story, you'll see that she wasn't burnt. Nor do I see a strong argument for moving from one person's outraged exclamation to the belief that it was a common result. It was a "joke" or "morality lesson" on Judah. God had nothing to do with it, and it's fairly well known that the Israelites spent a lot of their time doing things that God didn't approve of. This isn't an endorsement by God, any more than the story of King Solomon and the baby claimed by two mothers is God's endorsement of bisecting babies.

I'm not sure what point you're making with the verses from Isaiah and Hosea. You seem to be agreeing with me (Shock!) that slicing women open was part of a very serious punishment upon a people, and nothing that God endorsed on a regular basis for individuals.


Sotah: Abortion-Inducing Potion due to Husband’s Jealousy?

There is overlap here. In the relevant tractate of the Talmud, Sotah, trial by ordeal (by drinking the potion) was expected to trigger a miscarriage / abortion in a guilty party.

Trial by ordeal was (and remains, in some African societies) a widely attested approach to resolving judicial disputes. It needs to be understood from the inside, based on careful ethnographic study.
You know, I went through the entire article twice and couldn't find that quote? You sneaky little devil you, it was in the comments.

But there was something you didn't quite go far enough to find. Remember the "was expected" part. That's pretty important. The first words after you end your quote are:


I got started on the topic here:

ancienthebrewpoetry.typepad.com... cripts.html

If you followed that link, which ATS is giving me some trouble posting, you would have found this:


What ANE evidence is there for the suggestion that people voluntarily subjected themselves to judicial ordeal to prove their innocence? Leeson deals with the medieval period, and suggests the following:
Medieval citizens’ belief in iudicium Dei created a separating equilibrium. Guilty defendants expected ordeals to convict them. Innocent defendants expected the reverse. Thus only innocent defendants were willing to undergo ordeals. Conditional on observing a defendant’s willingness to do so, the administrating priest knew he was innocent and manipulated the ordeal to find this. (p. 2).
(ANE stands for Ancient Near East)

It's at least possible that the Israelites and those in the Medieval period saw things the same way. After all, there wasn't really anything in the mixture that would cause an abortion. This reminds me very much of King Solomon and the baby. He proposed the test to determine truth. I can easily believe that's what happened here.

Oh, and about the nose on my face? You'd be surprised by the large number of people who stop me on the street to say "Dude! What happened to you? Your nose is so blurry?"

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by whitewave
 


Yes, it's true that in the 5th century BCE Hippocrates wrote his famous oath. And it would appear that he was against all forms of abortion, but he wasn't really.


Hippocrates’ attitudes to abortion

There is debate in the medical profession about what the ancient Greek physician Hippocrates (approx. 460-377 B.C.) taught about abortion. One translation of the Hippocratic Oath states: “Neither will I give a woman means to procure an abortion.”

One current popular theory about the Hippocratic Oath is part of it originally read, “I shall not give a woman an abortive suppository.”

This modern theory claims that the Hippocratic Oath only related to not doing certain types of abortion. Note that in his writing “On the Nature of the Child”, Hippocrates advised a girl, believed to be in the sixth day of her pregnancy to abort the seed by leaping so that her heels touch her buttocks. He claimed that after her seventh leap, the seed fell down with a noise:

“It was in the following way that I came to see a six-day-old embryo. A kinswomen of mine owned a very valuable danseuse, whom she employed as a prostitute. It was important that this girl should not become pregnant and therefore lose her value. Now this girl had heard the sort of thing women say to each other – that when a woman is going to conceive, the seed remains inside her and does not fall out.

She digested this information, and kept a watch. One day she noticed that the seed had not come out again. She told
her mistress and the story came to me. When I heard it, I told her to jump up and down, touching her buttocks with her heels at each leap. After she had done this no more than seven times, there was a noise, the seed fell out on the ground, and the girl looked at it in great surprise…It was round, and red, and within the membrane could be seen thick white fibres, surrounded by a thick red serum; while on the outer surface of the membrane were clots of blood.”

In the above, Hippocrates speaks approvingly of abortion, prostitution and his relative using a girl as a prostitute to make money.

In his Aphorisms, Hippocrates also advised that abortion can be obtained by blood letting: “Miscarriage follows blood-letting in pregnant women, especially if the foetus be large.” Blood-letting involved cutting open veins to remove large quantities of blood. Hippocrates’ advice here could have been used by physicians and surgeons in murdering older unborn babies.


LINK

Socrates also wrote in favor of abortion and infanticide of women over 40 and their offspring and Cicero was outspokenly against all forms of abortion. My point in bringing up the history of attitudes about abortion was simply to show that abortion was widely being used, and by the time of the advent of Jesus, abortion was so rampant that Caesar Augustus had decreed that childbirth was the PC and patriotic thing to do, but he didn't outlaw abortion. However, even though many women were getting abortions, Jesus was silent on the morality of the subject.



edit on 3-12-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by sad_eyed_lady
 





I do not see the women getting an abortion or perhaps even the abortionist as intentionally offering the life of these children as a human sacrifice,


Okay, glad we cleared that up.


yet the end result of the action is the taking of a human life.


You and I just don't see eye to eye on this.



The devil doesn't show his face. He wears a mask.


I don't believe in the Devil


You and I differ in the belief that God has no problem with abortion.


My God is indifferent to abortion. To be clear, the God of the Old Testament is NOT my God, and I don't think those biblical laws were from any God at all, but borrowed from surrounding cultures and used to justify and terrorize their enemies.

I think Jesus had some pretty good teachings, but even some of the teachings and stories credited to him, I strongly question or just outright reject.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Charles,



Yes, I do. And I appreciate you for it. I have a suspicion that, on occasion, you see one of my posts and say "I can't respond to that. I agree with him!"


Strangers things have happened.


Mostly, when I agree with a poster, any poster, I give them a star. There's no sense posting a comment that simply says "I agree". That being said, I have given you quite a number of stars, some of them for your sheer tenacity!





First, though, I owe you and everyone else an apology. Boy, did I blow it!

For some strange reason, possibility the onset of senility, I wrote "New" instead of "Old," which I had intended.


It's cool. It allowed us to explore the "assent by silence" aspect of the New Testament.




I was unable to find anyplace in the Old Testament where he endorsed an abortion. If He does all through the Old Testament, there should be examples aplenty. You make a good attempt


If killing pregnant women, which is commanded of the Hebrews throughout the Old Testament, even if they're from false god worshiping tribes, aren't examples God ordering abortions, literally throwing the baby out with bathwater, then I don't know what to tell you!


In reading that story, you'll see that she wasn't burnt. Nor do I see a strong argument for moving from one person's outraged exclamation to the belief that it was a common result. It was a "joke" or "morality lesson" on Judah. God had nothing to do with it, and it's fairly well known that the Israelites spent a lot of their time doing things that God didn't approve of.


Yes, I know that she wasn't killed. The point is the cavalier way in which Judah sentenced her to be burned for her whoredom, indicating that it was the normal thing to do with pregnant whores. Judah was an upstanding man of God, and, like Abraham, I'm sure the idea of burning his daughter in law pained his heart. Also, there was no regulation against stoning a pregnant adulteress.

As far as Hosea, the Prophet prays for God to rip the babies from the bellies of his enemies' women. God obliges. It's the same in Isaiah, the Prophet is pronouncing a certain kind of doom. Again, if these things did happen, they happened at the hands of men, not of God, in my opinion.



You know, I went through the entire article twice and couldn't find that quote? You sneaky little devil you, it was in the comments.


Yeah.
I did a Google search on "Sotah: Abortion-Inducing Potion due to Husband’s Jealousy?" and that link came up. I was looking for a Jewish discussing on the Sotah as it relates to the Jewish history of legal abortions. There were a lot! One woman's blog, an interesting discussion, explained that the Sotah was probably used by priests to protect women from jealous and abusive husbands. She claimed that's why husbands were forbidden to drink alcohol for a time after the Sotah. Some claimed that priests could be bribed to create certain outcomes.

I liked this link because the original article went into the ancient Jewish legal value of the children and unborn babies. The author seemed to be a Jewish anthropologist, but compared the ordeal to other cultures who used similar methods.

He only briefly addressed the Sotah ordeal in his comments, and came straight to the point that, indeed, the potion would be expected to cause a miscarriage. The fact is, this, and other similar rituals used in other cultures, could be used in various different ways for various different reasons, abortion being one of them.

My point is, the Bible does allow for pregnant women to be killed and makes exception for abortions under certain conditions. Abortions were being administered throughout the ancient kingdoms, and abortion was being discussed by philosophers and was even being outlawed by some governments at certain times, yet the Bible has no obvious ban on abortion.

That doesn't make the abortion argument irrelevant for Christians and Christian morality, it just make using God and Bible irrelevant, in my opinion.



edit on 3-12-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by windword
 





I don't believe in the Devil


Thanks for sharing that. It explains alot about your perspective. One way to know there is a God is to meet his adversary.

My story is none too pretty. I will share a bit of it. Hope you don;t laugh it off, It could not be more real.

For years I would lay in bed asleep and find myself nodding. I wondered what that was all about. Someone said: "You were probably nodding it yourself." That made sense so I let it go.

In the winter of 2010 I faced quite an attack. Poltergeist activity kicked off the show. My son was upset that I was losing all his clothes in the wash and his laundry basket went AWOL. My house is not that big, so it was not misplaced.

I had the experience of some invisible force trying to push me down the basement steps.

I asked a Priest to bless my house, but my sons were opposed to it, so he told me how to do it myself.

I was sitting on my front porch and thinking about things when my head began to nod on its own. I started asking questions and would get a nod for an answer. It crossed my mind that this could be demonic so I just asked: "Are you the devil'? to which he responded with a big head nod. He thought that would scare the wits out of me, but I disappointed him.

I am skipping a million details that led up to this experience.. I went blind in one eye for awhile and then blind in the other. My head felt like someone took a baseball bat to it. I heard a 1000 birds chirping in my ear. My doctor put be on strong anti-psychotic drugs, but they didn't touch what was going on. I lived this way for six months.

I was advised to go to the Catholic Renewal Center to be prayed over and did so 4 times.Devil Nod was still around. I could have sworn I was possessed, but they told me I wasn't. I was demonically oppressed.

I was advised by a Priest to participate in the Sacraments of Confession and Mass to help keep the devil away. I stepped up my prayer life and things got better. I still think he is hanging around, but he is silent (thanks to the my acknowledgement of the presence of the Holy Spiri)t. When he spoke to me he used my thoughts to communicate. I did not hear his voice, but once or twice. I was watching a mocking bird at my bird feeder and had the thought: "Those are our eyes." At that point, I called bull#. This effort to make me insane failed.

Dude, you can say that I was jack # crazy and I will acknowledge that I have been hospitalized over 20 times since my bipolar started. Mental illness is a portal for the devil. Never have I experienced this type of personal interaction with the one I call Devil Nod.

Take it or leave it, but their is absolutely no doubt in my mind that demons exist.

The only reason I expose this ugly piece of my past is to show you they are real, but as long as you don't believe in them they are quite content to leave you alone.

Laugh this off if you want, but somewhere down the line you will know it is the truth.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by sad_eyed_lady
 




Thanks for sharing that. It explains alot about your perspective. One way to know there is a God is to meet his adversary.


My God doesn't have an adversary. But we do, and the best way to find out what we're made of is to meet adversity.




In the winter of 2010 I faced quite an attack. Poltergeist activity kicked off the show. My son was upset that I was losing all his clothes in the wash and his laundry basket went AWOL. My house is not that big, so it was not misplaced.

I had the experience of some invisible force trying to push me down the basement steps.


I believe in ghosts. I think that we all are spiritual being that are having a physical experience. Ghosts are people too, my friend, and there's all kinds of people. I believe in ESP, out of body experience, mind over matter and the Akashic Records. I believe the universe is inhabited with all kinds of spiritual beings at all kinds of levels and dimensions. I don't believe that we're alone, and I believe in an organized spiritual hierarchy.

I think within that hierarchy, there are those beings that guard the "temperature" of our reality. Those beings have met and overcome some of the most dangerous aspects of awareness, and they hold the bottom in place for us. These beings may also offer adversarial challenges to us, so that we can learn how to hold our own bottom line in place. You might call this the devil. I call it my adversarial friend.

I think, that within this hierarchy, there are those beings that soar high above our reality. And they help guide us along our path, hear our prayers and offer inspirational dreams and visions. You may call them angels and saints.

I think, also, that there exists a representation of the perfected potential of what mankinds is meant to eventually be. I believe this divine spark burns in us all. You may call this Christ.



I am skipping a million details that led up to this experience.. I went blind in one eye for awhile and then blind in the other. My head felt like someone took a baseball bat to it. I heard a 1000 birds chirping in my ear. My doctor put be on strong anti-psychotic drugs, but they didn't touch what was going on. I lived this way for six months.


When I was in my twenties, I used to get migraine headaches. They were so extreme that I thought I having was having a stroke, and so did people around me. They were truly blinding headaches that gave me this weird tunnel vision, and whatever I looked at seems to disappear into blackness. My speech was all mixed up and I couldn't form the words I was thinking. Only jiberish came out of my mouth. Hitting my head against the wall eased the pain!

Nothing the doctors gave me helped, in fact, most of the time, their medication made it worse and made them come more often. I finally found the remedy on my own.
And it worked like magic! Not only did it relieve the headaches, they stopped coming back.



Dude, you can say that I was jack # crazy and I will acknowledge that I have been hospitalized over 20 times since my bipolar started. Mental illness is a portal for the devil. Never have I experienced this type of personal interaction with the one I call Devil Nod.


I was also hospitalized for my headaches. I don't think you're crazy. When I used to have my headaches, my brain and my mind would fracture, and a thousand voices in my head would start screaming at me, "Who am I?", over and over in my head. ME, the observer, could easily have fallen apart, but I knew, above it all, who I was. I was a child of God. I always was able to tell my voices that they were all children of God.


edit on 4-12-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 10:22 AM
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‘I’ve noticed that everyone who is for abortion is already born,’”
Reagan


www.gadsdentimes.com...

Courtney’s birth mother had an abortion when she was six weeks pregnant, sometime in late January 1996.

What her birth mother or the person who performed the abortion did not know, Courtney said, was that she was pregnant with twins.

Courtney survived. Her twin did not.

“She went back for an ultrasound in March 1996 and she found out her abortion worked only halfway,” Courtney said. “She was having twins and I was still alive.”

Courtney’s birth mother had an option to have another abortion. “But since she could hear my heartbeat, she decided to give me life,” she said.

Courtney was born prematurely on June 19, 1996, and weighed 1 pound, 2 ounces. Her mother was 27 weeks pregnant.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


Thanks for sharing. That was one very unusual experience you had, Did the voices respond positively to the news they were a child of God and loved?

Something I forgot to mention about my experience. I related the part about having the thought: "Those are our eyes." (the birds) to my shrink and he commented: "We have heard this before."

I know you do not believe in the devil, yet I took this as a confirmation that if the devil could convince someone to believe this he owned them and this must be a common technique they use to decimate someone.

I am glad you found a cure for your migraines. Have had them and know they are no joy. I watched the video and I am glad it works. I would be afraid to try it after all the meds I have taken over the years and not knowing how bi polars would react to this.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 02:53 PM
link   
reply to post by sad_eyed_lady
 




Thanks for sharing. That was one very unusual experience you had, Did the voices respond positively to the news they were a child of God and loved?


The responded in peaceful silence.



I am glad you found a cure for your migraines. Have had them and know they are no joy. I watched the video and I am glad it works. I would be afraid to try it after all the meds I have taken over the years and not knowing how bi polars would react to this.


Not making any recommendations here. I just find it interesting that these kinds of things are treated with anti-psychotics and psychedelics with some success.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 03:11 PM
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Well, that is cool.



I do believe in ghosts as well. Padre Pio, a Caphucin Friar who was the first canonized Priest to bear the stigmata said:

"I see so many souls from Purgatory that they don't frighten me any more." And on another occasion when questioned further on the matter, he replied: "More souls of the dead than of the living climb this mountain to attend my Masses and seek my prayers."



posted on Dec, 6 2013 @ 03:58 PM
link   

sad_eyed_lady
reply to post by windword
 





I don't believe in the Devil


Thanks for sharing that. It explains alot about your perspective. One way to know there is a God is to meet his adversary.

My story is none too pretty. I will share a bit of it. Hope you don;t laugh it off, It could not be more real.

For years I would lay in bed asleep and find myself nodding. I wondered what that was all about. Someone said: "You were probably nodding it yourself." That made sense so I let it go.

In the winter of 2010 I faced quite an attack. Poltergeist activity kicked off the show. My son was upset that I was losing all his clothes in the wash and his laundry basket went AWOL. My house is not that big, so it was not misplaced.

I had the experience of some invisible force trying to push me down the basement steps.

I asked a Priest to bless my house, but my sons were opposed to it, so he told me how to do it myself.

I was sitting on my front porch and thinking about things when my head began to nod on its own. I started asking questions and would get a nod for an answer. It crossed my mind that this could be demonic so I just asked: "Are you the devil'? to which he responded with a big head nod. He thought that would scare the wits out of me, but I disappointed him.

I am skipping a million details that led up to this experience.. I went blind in one eye for awhile and then blind in the other. My head felt like someone took a baseball bat to it. I heard a 1000 birds chirping in my ear. My doctor put be on strong anti-psychotic drugs, but they didn't touch what was going on. I lived this way for six months.

I was advised to go to the Catholic Renewal Center to be prayed over and did so 4 times.Devil Nod was still around. I could have sworn I was possessed, but they told me I wasn't. I was demonically oppressed.

I was advised by a Priest to participate in the Sacraments of Confession and Mass to help keep the devil away. I stepped up my prayer life and things got better. I still think he is hanging around, but he is silent (thanks to the my acknowledgement of the presence of the Holy Spiri)t. When he spoke to me he used my thoughts to communicate. I did not hear his voice, but once or twice. I was watching a mocking bird at my bird feeder and had the thought: "Those are our eyes." At that point, I called bull#. This effort to make me insane failed.

Dude, you can say that I was jack # crazy and I will acknowledge that I have been hospitalized over 20 times since my bipolar started. Mental illness is a portal for the devil. Never have I experienced this type of personal interaction with the one I call Devil Nod.

Take it or leave it, but their is absolutely no doubt in my mind that demons exist.

The only reason I expose this ugly piece of my past is to show you they are real, but as long as you don't believe in them they are quite content to leave you alone.

Laugh this off if you want, but somewhere down the line you will know it is the truth.


sad_eyed_lady,

Your brave testimony of the reality of Satan. Satan's only desire is to remove Jesus in us and from us.

I was listening to a priest speak last evening, he is also an exorcist. His spiritual director was St. Padre
Pio AND he was spiritual director to Mother Teresa! His name is Monsignor John Esseff. He has been
a priest for 60 years. Mnsgr. Esseff spoke of protection, saying the name of Jesus and having the
Cross (a crucifix) near. I have a crucifix hanging in almost every room of my home. Carry a little crucifix
with you or wear one on a chain. Put a tiny crucifix over the outside front door, all the doors on your
house. Satan will run away.

A second spiritual help, makes sense, Our Lord's mother. Satan despises Mary (Genesis 3:15). You do not
have to be Catholic, wear a protection of Mary's. Order online or go to a Catholic store. Purchase
the Miraculous Medal and another, the Brown Scapular. Monsignor Esseff said WEARING the Brown Scapular is like having Mary's arms around you.

At present, Monsignor Esseff is a spiritual director to a person receiving messages from Our Lord and
His mother. One powerful message, the bishop dressed in white goes to Israel, to Jerusalem. It reads
like the fulfillment of the partial 3rd secret of Fatima released. www.locutions.org...
See -the home page- Lucy's Fatima Vison.


love,


colbe


p.s. S.E.L., a reminder, your attack from the evil one, like St. Pio.



posted on Dec, 6 2013 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


That external anecdote -- although very touching -- offers nothing to the argument, really.

If the fetal cells had been aborted before they became Courtney, there would be no Courtney, and I'm sure that's your point. But there would also be no emotion attached to her since she would have never existed and it ultimately wouldn't matter at all.



posted on Dec, 8 2013 @ 07:06 PM
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TheRegal
reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


That external anecdote -- although very touching -- offers nothing to the argument, really.

If the fetal cells had been aborted before they became Courtney, there would be no Courtney, and I'm sure that's your point. But there would also be no emotion attached to her since she would have never existed and it ultimately wouldn't matter at all.


If Courtney was aborted she still would have existed, killed before birth, just as alive as she will be until she takes her last breath.



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 02:14 AM
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If you think this unborn child is insignificant it does give the mother an awesome gift.

Fascinating Discovery Shows Unborn Baby’s Cells Go to Mom’s Brain


Below the article is a link to an earlier study which states these cell stay in monmy for decades and help her repair tissue,



A study involving a Boston woman with hepatitis (and a history of five pregnancies) found hundreds of fetal cells at work “repairing” her liver.


I think the value of what the child gives the mother should be appreciated with great respect, if not then maybe the the parasite (and I hate that term to describe a human being) is the mother.



edit on 12/9/2013 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 06:21 AM
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sad_eyed_lady

If Courtney was aborted she still would have existed


That's an opinion, not a fact. You have the right to not get an abortion based on that, but you have no right to force other people not to; they don't share that opinion.



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 10:20 AM
link   
reply to post by sad_eyed_lady
 




If Courtney was aborted she still would have existed, killed before birth, just as alive as she will be until she takes her last breath.


If "Courtney" had been aborted, she would never have taken a first breath, let alone a last breath. There is no "breath" in the womb.


breath
: the air that you take into your lungs and send out from your lungs when you breathe : air that is inhaled and exhaled in breathing

: the ability to breathe freely

: an amount of air that you take into your lungs




Below the article is a link to an earlier study which states these cell stay in monmy for decades and help her repair tissue,


I bet you're against fetal stem cell research though!


....... For example, fetal cells have been found at tumor sites in mothers, but it is unknown whether the cells are helping to destroy the tumor or to speed its growth......................

Researchers suspect that fetal cells in a mother's blood stream help her immune system tolerate and not attack the fetus. The detection of trophoblasts and immune cells in the maternal lung should aid future studies on this subject, as well as research into pregnancy-related complications like preeclampsia. The presence of fetal mesenchymal stem cells corresponds with previous studies that reported fetal and placental cells differentiating to repair injured maternal organs in both mice and humans.
www.sciencedaily.com...



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 11:05 AM
link   

TheRegal

sad_eyed_lady

If Courtney was aborted she still would have existed


That's an opinion, not a fact. You have the right to not get an abortion based on that, but you have no right to force other people not to; they don't share that opinion.



I disagree that it is not a fact. The key word here is " exist."


: to have actual being : to be real : to continue to be or to live

www.merriam-webster.com...


If I have no right to say that, well maybe the dictionary doesn’t have the right to explain the meaning of the word either. I was not the one who claimed that she never would have existed. Life begins at conception and ends at death. When you are living you exist (per definition).

Hope you can grasp that concept. You have that right and hopefully the ability to do so.



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 11:11 AM
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It's simple biology: The human life cycle begins at conception.

Life cycle; the being created by conception is alive, growing and entirely a human.

Abortion kills this living human.

Pro-abortion activists hide this fact behind deceptive euphemisms such as 'Reproductive Rights!' (killing your offspring seems the opposite of reproduction, doesn;t it?) or 'Choice!' (the same folks who feel you can't choose the correct appliances, toilets, light bulbs or health insurance demand the Right TO Choose!)



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by sad_eyed_lady
 




Life begins at conception and ends at death. When you are living you exist (per definition).



Simple biology negates that. The ovum exists and is alive, the sperm exists and is alive. Their meeting does NOT create life, it transforms it and the life, that already existed, EVOLVES into a "human being" over a period of time. The potential life of a human being begins at conception, but there is much that HAS to happen before a human being emerges from the womb.




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