I Finally Understand Why Abortion Can't Be Discussed Logically.

Happy1
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

I think that people your age - the age where your mother could have easily had an abortion due to her circumstances - but choose not to - to choose the harder choice of giving her "child/fetus" a chance -

I think that's why (thank God) we have more people choosing anti-abortions more than pro-abortion.

Most women do feel guilty for abortions - I am 50 years old - the number of women my age that has had abortions is incredible - and they do feel guilty.

Yes, there are women who couldn't care less - but that is the minority.

How can a woman go through a pregnancy and not understand that the fetus is a being - not a "bag of cells"?

I won't even comment on the "rights that a father" should have in this event.

I agree with you completely, and KNOW this to be true. Though this is not a place nor time to discuss personal issues, very personal, such as this.

that being the case, I would ask you tell the "gentlemen," using the term loosely, here, one of which has already implied by response, that perhaps women like me like killing and DON'T THINK......

I'm sorry. This thread is beyond me. And not what I can deal with right now.

reply to post by tetra50


Then I'll stop responding/posting if it hurts that much.

Regards,

beezzer

Please, no, it is obviously me who should remove myself. Don't wanna be the "thread killer" here, for something may be learned from this debate without me, or my opinions.

So, carry on. Never should have replied here, really. Should know where I don't belong, by this time.
Tetra50

Happy1
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

I think that people your age - the age where your mother could have easily had an abortion due to her circumstances - but choose not to - to choose the harder choice of giving her "child/fetus" a chance -

I think that's why (thank God) we have more people choosing anti-abortions more than pro-abortion.

Most women do feel guilty for abortions - I am 50 years old - the number of women my age that has had abortions is incredible - and they do feel guilty.

Yes, there are women who couldn't care less - but that is the minority.

How can a woman go through a pregnancy and not understand that the fetus is a being - not a "bag of cells"?

I won't even comment on the "rights that a father" should have in this event.

I absolutely disagree. I am 50 years old. I had an abortion 19 years ago and have zero remorse; zero guilt. It was the right choice for me then, and time has not changed my mind. In fact, as time passes, I see exactly how correct that decision was for many reasons.

Further, I know many women who've had abortions and not one regretted the decision. Not one. Therefore is highly presumptuous on your part to say most women feel guilty.

And I'm glad you're not commenting on father's "rights" - because they don't have any until the child is born.

reply to post by tetra50


Ma'am, we're all here to debate and to learn.

I never sign on to hurt.

Namaste.

tetra50

Quadrivium

beezzer
reply to post by charles1952

 

It's a point where one persons rights supercedes anothers.

The right of the mother over-rules the rights of the unborn.

I found it ironic that gay rights supporters spoke of the rights of the individual, yet those self-same people disregarded the rights of the unborn individual.

Like slavery, the rights of the white people over-ruled the rights of the black person.

Slavery concluded that a person could determine whether or not a person lived or died.

Same as abortion.

First, S&F Charles. Another well thought out OP!
Second, star for you beez. I couldn't agree more!

As someone who came close to being aborted in '73 I can tell you that abortion is wrong. Luckily for me my mom understood that her rights did not supersede my own. She was my voice when I was unable to speak for myself.
Quad

So, by that thought process it is a woman's job to give that to you? And your rights, then supercede hers?

I has been a while since I have spoken to her about it, but I am sure that when she made the decision to have sex she realized that pregnancy might have been a real possibility. She was a "big girl" and took responsibility for her actions.

And if no one helps her in raising you, and you end up in foster care or abused or worse, because this is the real world out there for unwed and unwanted mothers, then, what?

*ahem* If one is worried about such things perhaps keeping the legs closed would be a better answer. Unless raped the choice is yours.
As you stated "this is the real world" men are born as men and women are born women. Both know full well what may happen. This is where the woman's right to choose should come in. Not when a third party has entered the picture.

And it's her job to see it that way just because she has a vagina?
You're all just baiting here. this CAN'T be an honest discussion. And you portray yourselves as "patriots," along these lines. How very friggin sad. How bout I tell you via your rights you can't screw a woman without getting a vasectomy, unless you're willing to financially support the possible progeny from the act?

Sounds fair (if not married).

Never mind. Shutting up now.

Ok

reply to post by RealWoman


I'm sure it was the right choice for your child.

Happy1
reply to post by RealWoman

 

I'm sure it was the right choice for your child.

Totally uncalled for and actually none of your freaking business.

A prime example of...ignorance.

beezzer
reply to post by Cuervo

 

A non-answer, my friend. Then again, you're speaking to a vet that actually sees an outcome (positive) to war/fighting.

Nah, I think my answer was just about the only one I could give. At least honestly. I don't see it as a fair comparison and I feel you think I'm pro-abortion when I'm not. Not even close. I think it's a plight on society but I don't think the answer is making it illegal nor making women feel guilt about it.

Abortion is a nasty reality much like the war you compared it to. Also, like war, it is best eliminated by supporting those in need and helping them to care for an otherwise unwanted pregnancy. Think about it. Do you think there is a certain number of bombs and bullets that will fill some magic quota that suddenly stops all war? So the solution isn't to fight but to help support one another.


Side note:
As far as your service, you probably have read enough of my posts to know that my respect for our troops started waning post-9/11. I used to be one of those "thank you for your service to my nation" type of guys but I just couldn't keep it up after seeing so many people sign up for the wrong reasons. Especially now. I also feel I know you well enough to believe that you joined to serve the rest of us. I know there is a difference but having respect for war and having respect for veterans are two totally different things. That's why some of the biggest anti-military/war activists are vets.

Happy1
reply to post by RealWoman

 

I'm sure it was the right choice for your child.

There is no logic to this comment. This is the kind of wild-eyed, hatemongering hyperpole has no place in the abortion debate.

And yes, it was the right choice for the three children we already had. And before you go off a hysterical tantrum about keeping legs closed, the fetus was the product of sex with my husband. We learned the hard way that birth control can and does fail. He had a vasectomy shortly thereafter.

reply to post by RealWoman


WOW RW! You're a mother of three? sounds familiar.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by RealWoman


Hyberbole?

I've already admitted I killed my child when I was 16 years old - I am not throwing stones in a glass house here. Or passing judgment on you -

I'm calling abortion what it is - the truth hurts - it hurts me, it hurts my first child = it hurts a society that doesn't call murder - murder.

Quadrivium
reply to post by RealWoman

 

WOW RW! You're a mother of three? sounds familiar.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

That is a beautiful poem you linked to and in fact, I starred and flagged that thread. However, I did not star this post and I'll tell you why.

In your thread, you made a wonderful poem about your mother and it was incredibly positive. In this post, you use that same poem as a weapon to hurt another.

I could ask you a bunch of what-ifs like what if the doctor was right and you had been living in a vegetative hellish tormented and painful state for the last four decades? Sometimes there is no right or wrong answer and a person just has to be thankful when they made the right one. Just like your mother made the right one with you and just like RealWoman made the right one with her family.

i think if a woman is going to lay down with a fella then she should not take out the consequence on the baby i think its wrong and the man and woman should care for it but these days u dont see that but every woman is strong enouph to do it on her own and not take the easy way out the baby didnt ask to be conceived but every one has their own oppinion on the matter no matter what u say the other will surly argue so its pointless either way

::posted by lurkers wife

Happy1
reply to post by RealWoman

 

Hyberbole?

I've already admitted I killed my child when I was 16 years old - I am not throwing stones in a glass house here. Or passing judgment on you -

I'm calling abortion what it is - the truth hurts - it hurts me, it hurts my first child = it hurts a society that doesn't call murder - murder.

You're holding on to your guilt like a security blanket. You really need to stop projecting your pitiful feelings on the rest of society.

reply to post by RealWoman


What do you think truth is?

Quadrivium
reply to post by RealWoman

 

WOW RW! You're a mother of three? sounds familiar.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I fail to see how this is relevant.

Happy1
reply to post by RealWoman

 

What do you think truth is?

There's no such thing as "truth." There's fact and belief.

Cuervo

Quadrivium
reply to post by RealWoman

 

WOW RW! You're a mother of three? sounds familiar.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

That is a beautiful poem you linked to and in fact, I starred and flagged that thread. However, I did not star this post and I'll tell you why.

In your thread, you made a wonderful poem about your mother and it was incredibly positive. In this post, you use that same poem as a weapon to hurt another.

I could ask you a bunch of what-ifs like what if the doctor was right and you had been living in a vegetative hellish tormented and painful state for the last four decades? Sometimes there is no right or wrong answer and a person just has to be thankful when they made the right one. Just like your mother made the right one with you and just like RealWoman made the right one with her family.

Not trying "to hurt" anyone.
There should be no hurt unless there is guilt. If there is guilt, the act is already done. It can not be changed, ask for forgiveness and move forward.
The poem is my story. I was almost one of the millions that never even got a chance at life because of someone elses "choice".
I actually think about the "what ifs" a good bit. None of them are enough to make me wish she would have made another choice. None of us know what the future holds.
Quad

Why is it that when a woman chooses to have a child the father is by default responsible and should provide at the very least monetary support, but a father does not have the right to veto a mother's decision to have an abortion?

Why is it a woman's choice, and a woman's choice alone, when a man was 50% of the reason that spark of life took place?

How can these people reduce a life to a "mass of cells" and a father to nothing more than a sperm and money donor?

The older and wiser I get, the further from "pro-choice" I become.