It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
kaylaluv
reply to post by libertytoall
No, after the baby is born, it is not the personal property of the mother and there are certain things the mother is required to do for the dependent child-- but the mother still has the legal right to say she doesn't want to raise the child.
darkbake
kaylaluv
reply to post by libertytoall
No, after the baby is born, it is not the personal property of the mother and there are certain things the mother is required to do for the dependent child-- but the mother still has the legal right to say she doesn't want to raise the child.
What are you going to do when you are put in a situation where you are helpless and entirely dependent on someone else who has no reason at all to help you for help?
Our economy is not that great right now, or the world's stability, it could be a situation that you find yourself in rather easily. And when it happens, I just think you should consider what I'm saying, and then it might make sense.
You are free to do what you want, is what I guess I'm saying. Just don't forget what I said about the lesson, you'll know it when you see it.
darkbake
reply to post by kaylaluv
I say no because the baby is a human being who is helpless, the fact that the baby is helpless should give him or her more protection, not less -
kaylaluv
reply to post by Serdgiam
You know, I don't think it even matters whether the fetus is an "actual life" or not. A baby already born is an actual life, and if the mother decides she can't or won't take care of it, she can have it removed from her home. It will be put somewhere else and get care from someone else. It might not get good care in this other place, but the point is, the woman has the right to give up all responsibility of the child.
If the woman wants the fetus taken out of her body, and she doesn't want the responsibility for it anymore, she has that right. Let's say the woman who is 6 weeks pregnant says I don't want this in my body, and the doctor removes the fetus intact and alive from the woman's body. It is now no longer the woman's responsibility, correct? Obviously the fetus will die outside the womb, but that's not the woman's responsibility, the doctor now has it.
Serdgiam
That seems like a way to skirt responsibility and shift blame to me.
Regardless of my perception, when medicine has reached a stage where that baby will be able to survive after being removed from the womb at 6 weeks, do you think the outlook on abortion will change at all?
kaylaluv
You could say the same thing about the woman who has given birth to a baby that she decides to give up all responsibility for. What happens to that baby after she gives it up is no longer her responsibility. She is not culpable if that baby dies in someone else's care.
It would then be the same as if the woman had carried the baby to term, then decided to give up all responsibility for the child. I think the woman will still have the right to give up all responsibility of the fetus. But instead of the fetus dying, it will just be put in the artificial womb. The terminology of "carrying a baby to term" will actually not really exist in the same sense at this point, because "to term" could mean 6 weeks, or 4 weeks, or 2 weeks.
This may cause some problems in our society however, as there may be a backlog of available babies and not enough adoptive parents to handle the load. Could be an extra burden on tax-payers. What's funny is that those same people who fight so hard to ban abortion and "save the children" are usually the same people who absolutely hate being forced to pay taxes that go towards helping those in need (like children in orphanages or foster care). They don't want their compassion to be legally enforced by the government. Ironic, isn't it?
kaylaluv
reply to post by Serdgiam
You know, I don't think it even matters whether the fetus is an "actual life" or not. A baby already born is an actual life, and if the mother decides she can't or won't take care of it, she can have it removed from her home. It will be put somewhere else and get care from someone else.
Safe-haven laws (also known in some states as "Baby Moses laws", in reference to the religious scripture) are statutes in the United States that decriminalize the leaving of unharmed infants with statutorily designated private persons so that the child becomes a ward of the state. "Safe-haven" laws typically let mothers remain nameless to the court, often using a numbered bracelet system as the only means of linking the baby to the mother. Some states treat safe-haven surrenders as child dependency or abandonment, with a complaint being filed for such in juvenile court. The parent either defaults or answers the complaint. Others treat safe-haven surrenders as adoption surrenders, hence a waiver of parental rights (see parental responsibility). Police stations, hospitals, rescue squads, and fire houses are all typical locations to which the safe-haven law applies.
en.wikipedia.org...
At twenty-four weeks gestation, the uterus is thin and soft so be careful not to perforate or puncture the walls. Once you have grasped something inside, squeeze on the clamp to set the jaws and pull hard–really hard. You feel something let go and out pops a fully formed leg about six inches long. Reach in again and grasp whatever you can. Set the jaw and pull really hard once again and out pops an arm about the same length. Reach in again and again with that clamp and tear out the spine, intestines, heart and lungs.
The toughest part of a D&E abortion is extracting the baby’s head. The head of a baby that age is about the size of a large plum and is now free floating inside the uterine cavity. You can be pretty sure you have hold of it if the Sopher clamp is spread about as far as your fingers will allow. You will know you have it right when you crush d own on the clamp and see white gelatinous material coming through the cervix. That was the baby’s brains. You can then extract the skull pieces. Many times a little face will come out and stare back at you.
Congratulations! You have just successfully performed a second trimester Suction D&E abortion. You just affirmed her right to choose.
If you refuse to believe that this procedure inflicts severe pain on that unborn child, please think again.
Before I close, I want to make a comment on the necessity and usefulness of utilizing second and third trimester abortion to save women’s lives. I often hear the argument that we must keep abortion legal in order to save women’s lives in cases of life threatening conditions that can and do arise in pregnancy.
Albany Medical Center where I worked for over seven years is a tertiary referral center that accepts patients with life threatening conditions related to or caused by pregnancy. I personally treated hundreds of women with such conditions in my tenure there. There are several conditions that can arise or worsen typically during the late second or third trimester of pregnancy that require immediate care. In many of those cases, ending or “terminating” the pregnancy, if you prefer, can be life saving. But is abortion a viable treatment option in this setting? I maintain that it usually, if not always, is not.