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Overview of the Necronomicon

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posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 05:39 AM
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Wandering Scribe
reply to post by Leonidas
 


Um, you know that various authors have attempted to create a "Necronomicon" based off of H.P. Lovecraft's work, right?

You also know that a series of volumes mixing Babylonian and Assyrian mythology with New Age and Neopagan magic exist, right?

They're called the Simon Necronomicon, and there's a whole series of work surrounding them:



That's what is being discussed here.

~ Wandering Scribe



This all boils down to fan fiction following HP Lovecraft's original work.




posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 04:18 PM
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Well golly, alright then,

You know, it is fan fiction; H.P Lovecraft is likely the most beloved American writer of all time. He was a "writer's writer" (like Fritz Leiber), even the renowned Spanish writer Jorge Borges penned a short story in tribute to Lovecraft.

When Peter Levenda teamed up with Herman Slater and "Khem" (the illustrator) and they set out to hoax the Necronomicon, Levenda was fully aware of what he was taking on his shoulders. He knew that if he #ed it up, he would get no second chance; although Peter went on to write many other great books, his Simon Necronomicon would become his masterpiece. It is still a living masterpiece of literary hoaxing, in my opinion.

I am going to link a couple of "videos" that are recordings of Tracy Twyman interviewing Peter Levenda in 2007. I have listened to this series several times and I am always amazed at how Twyman seems to disarm Levenda and get him to be kind of sloppy; he contradicts himself pretty badly a few times. But then in the end Levenda seems to work some sort of magic, and even though Twyman had him by the short hairs, Levenda slips away and Twyman gets the story screwed up.

But that's the magic of Peter Levenda that he can stand right there and tell you that he did it, and folks still won't believe it. I have a feeling that this has surprised Levenda as much as it has surprised anyone, like myself, that has been following this story for so long: that even when folks are given everything they need to I.D. the author, they stubbornly refuse to relinquish their right to suspend their disbelief. He says as much in the vids I link if you listen, the story that you hear in the linked vids is the story given in Levenda's Dead Names: The Dark History of the Necronomicon.

So, yeah, it's just fan fiction, Levenda and his gang of hoaxers were definitely fans. But it's more than that, too, the "Simon" books have allowed for us fans to get years and years of extra mileage out of our beloved Lovecraft stories. Even if it is just the fun of watching folks try to sort out the Necronomicon on an ATS thread. It's awesomeness on a stick.

2:48

Dark History: 3



And I am always looking for an excuse to post this. Just so you know, Kantzveldt, a Lovecraft thread is always cause for celebration for us Lovecraft-Heads around these parts.





Phn’glui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wagh’nagl fhtagn!!. Iaaaaa!!
edit on 16-9-2013 by Bybyots because: Iaaaaaaaaaa!



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 07:50 PM
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Bybyots But it's more than that, too, the "Simon" books have allowed for us fans to get years and years of extra mileage out of our beloved Lovecraft stories. Even if it is just the fun of watching folks try to sort out the Necronomicon on an ATS thread.


Okay, I have a question, but please don't take this as judgement on Lovecraft's works, I'm just genuinely curious...


'Why' are his books so "beloved"?

I mean, I get the 'romance' of them...the adventure, the allure of magic, mystery, the deep unknown of ancient beyond ancient times...

...and yes, they're good reads, but I can't comprehend 'loving' Lovecraft...the stories he tells seem so despairing..there's such an utter lack of hope in them...you can all but taste the poor man's depression...

What is it exactly that makes them beloved-'able'?



posted on Sep, 17 2013 @ 01:12 AM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


There were several observable movements in Mesopotamian religious structure. And yes, my belief is that the Enmesarra/Enlil conflict is just a literary metaphor for one of those movements. I'll try to explain a little bit of my perception of Mesopotamian belief to see if what you're seeing, and what I'm seeing, align.

When most people think of the pantheon of Sumer, they automatically turn to the Four Great Gods and the Seven Who Decree, generally referred to as the Anunnaki. This group of deities can be listed as follows:

1) An, deity of the Heavens
2) Enlil, deity of the air, storms, and kingship
3) Enki, deity of the abyss, craftsmanship, and procreative powers
4) Ninhursag, deity of vegetation and natural formations
5) Nanna, deity of the moon, time, and fortune
6) Utu, deity of the sun, justice, and protection
7) Inanna, deity of sexuality, the stars, and war

Obviously their offices included other things as well, but those are the basics. The Four Great Gods are 1-4 on the list, and the Seven Who Decree Fate are all of them. To most people this is the beginning and end of Sumerian religious worship. However, if you read the mythology left by the Sumerians some interesting things are revealed.

1) Other Anunnaki, or "great gods" alongside the Seven. Some of these include:

- Ninurta, the warrior-farmer who defeated the Anzu bird that had stolen the me. After retrieving the me Ninurta almost became the sole ruler of the Universe, until Enki reprimanded him and returned the me to Enlil. Afterward the cult of Ninurta spread far and wide and he became a kind of "savior" to the people, influencing figures like Horus, Marduk, Baal, and Thor in later cultures.

- Ereshkigal, the twin-sister of Inanna and Queen of the Underworld. During the Descent of Inanna myth cycle Ereshkigal is responsible for the deaths of both Inanna (one of the Seven) and her husband, the god-king Dumuzi, whose annual death and resurrection influenced dying-and-rising mythology across the whole of the ancient world. Ereshkigal is also responsible for the death of Dumuzi's sister Geshtinana, who also rises seasonally. But nobody seems interested in a woman doing it - even though two Sumerian goddesses demonstrate the ability to resurrect alongside the lone god.

- Nisaba and Nanshe, who are credited with inventing writing, establishing the Sumerian school system, developing the art of medicine, and for setting down the law-code which the Anunnaki follow. Both goddesses are very old, their worship going back as far as the Seven, and almost universally accepted. Many later prominent figures, like Thoth and Seshat from Egypt, may have origins among the Sumerian Nanshe.

There are others, of course, that often get overlooked. However, this is only a part of the point. What do almost all of these deities have in common? The answer: multiple offices. They all see to several different functions of life on Earth or in some spiritual realm. Except for one: An, the Heavens. And this is where the older order of deities comes into play.

An's worship, during recorded Sumerian history, is very scarce. His main temple, the E-ana in the city-state of Uruk, was commandeered by the goddess Inanna even. An is, to draw a parallel, like the Titanic generations of Greek mythology: coming before the Olympians, but having lost nearly, if not all, worship and status by the time of recorded history. If, however, you do enough digging in Sumerian mythology and literature, you will find four such pre-Anunnaki deities, they are:

An, the Heavens
Antu, the Sky
Urash, the Earth
Nammu, the Abyss/Sea

Right away it should be obvious that these four—whose worship may go back as far as 3000 years before that of commonly recognized Sumerian religion—are keepers of a sole office: Heaven, Sky, Land, Sea. They do not have diverse functions. In fact, the Sumerians, or their predecessors the Ubaids, had a very defined view of them, it looked something like this:



An, "space", the "Heavens", or "Aether" was believed to be the fertile force which engendered all the gods when it met with Nammu, the Abyss. Obviously the fact that the Sumerians were dependent on the Persian Gulf and the Tigris and Euphrates rivers explains why the Abyss, and not Urash (Earth) or Antu (Sky) was seen as the Mother of All.

None-the-less, what you have here is a very primitive theology, not based on emotions, consciousness, philosophy, or seasonal cycles. Instead, it is based on very stark, defined forms: the night sky (An), the day sky (Antu), the solid land (Urash), and the Sea (Nammu). With the development of agriculture, and the rise of permanent settlements and city-states this type of religious belief gave way to the more complex seasonal cycle, represented by the Seven Who Decree Fate, whose functions are seasonal, or based on human qualities, and other such avenues not covered in just sky, sea, earth worship.

Enmesarra, the "Lord of me" (He who has all the laws) represented the old age, when all the laws were bound up in natural theology, that of An, Antu, Urash, and Nammu. Enlil, the Lord of the Air, represents the division of the me, just as he separated An from Ki (An from Urash), Enlil overthrows the Old Order (Enmesarra) to establish the realm of division, of both office and qualities. Enlil introduces the Seven Who Decree Fate, abolishing the stagnant, unchanging previous order.

So, we have one transition already: the Natural Theology (An), to Philosophic Theology (Enlil), and we've gone from the Ubaids to the Sumerians. The next shift, and final one I'll cover, comes when the Semitic Akkadians conquer Sumer. Their collective offspring, the Babylonians, assume dominance of Mesopotamia under King Hammurabi and introduce a new mythological system.

Babylonian mythology, recorded in the Enuma Elish document, begins with a series of wars.

First, Apsu and Tiamat, who represent the original Abyss, Nammu, are challenged by Enki, who represents the Seven Who Decree Fate. Apsu (a name which literally means Abyss) is killed by Enki. In Sumerian mythology Enki sets up his temple inside Nammu, becoming master of the Abyss. In Babylonian mythology Enki sets up his home inside Apsu, becoming master of the Abyss.

Tiamat, however, poses a more serious threat. She is a creatrix with immense power, who also happens to hold the me in her possession. Almost as if she represents the Seven Who Decree Fate, creators and controllers of the Universe, who used the me to enforce their authority.

How do the Babylonians handle this?

Marduk.

Damkina, a new Mother Goddess figure, gives birth to Marduk, who is blessed by Enki to be the Best and Greatest of all the gods. Marduk then challenges Tiamat and her servant, Kingu, who is armed with the me (which made the Anunnaki so great). Marduk overcomes all of them, and kills both Tiamat and Kingu, proving that Marduk and the Babylonian system have dominance over the Anunnaki and their me.

Following this, worship of the god-king, and of the blessed state becoming prominent over tutelary deities or natural formations. We've now witnessed a third transition. Natural theology, to philosophic theology, to state theology. An to Enlil to Marduk.

And that is my angle on it.

~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Sep, 17 2013 @ 01:14 AM
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reply to post by lostgirl
 




What is it exactly that makes them beloved-'able'?


I think that the books themselves are beloved-'able' because, like the Simon Necronomicon, despite their contents they in themselves become a sort of talisman that simultaneously connects one to and declares one's membership in a world that excludes those that don't understand. I also think that they become that way exactly because the fans make it so. I mean this in the broadest sense of the fan-base: from geeks at Caltech that display their collection of vintage Lovecraft paperbacks next to volumes on discreet mathematics, to the "fringe" community of "Gate-Walkers" that insist that they get "results" with the Simon Necronomicon.



and yes, they're good reads


Which is your favorite?


edit on 17-9-2013 by Bybyots because: .



posted on Sep, 17 2013 @ 01:27 AM
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reply to post by Leonidas
 


Care to point to a story where Lovecraft talks about the Babylonians and their gods?

I know in "Under the Pyramids" he discusses the Egyptian gods a little bit, and that "Dagon" bears a homonymous resemblance to the Ugaritic god of the sea, but I cannot recall a time when Babylonian mythology was present in Lovecraft's work. Granted, I still have 7 stories left to read in The Necronomicon, and every single one of them might be about Babylonian mythology, but, I somehow doubt that.

Simon's work is definitely fan-fiction, as he drops Azag-thoth and Cthulhu's name all over the place in the volume, but, he also takes a very original look at the dreaded grimoire by aligning it with Babylonian mythology. To pass Simon's work off as "just another fan-fic" is to do it a great disservice.

~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Sep, 17 2013 @ 01:47 AM
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Bybyots
Which is your favorite?



Uuff...it's been a long time since I read them (and even then I don't think I read more than half as many as he wrote - if that)...When my daughter was born I was hit with horrendous postpartum depression, which (15 yrs later) never fully abated...just can't handle 'bleak' in books or movies anymore...

Anyway, the one that intrigued me most was where this guy has a small oddly shaped (I think attic) room, and he ends up opening a way into another dimension with some nasty entities (one's a witch, maybe?)...I think it's "The Dunwich Horror", but I could have the title mixed up...

There was another one with (I think) an archaeologist on a dig who feels compelled to go out in the desert one night, falls down a hole, and finds an underground city and ends up in an alien museum(?), looking at artifacts and files, then in the end he makes his way out, but (not sure i'm remembering right) there's a windstorm that disorients him and changes the landscape (or something), so he never is able to find his way back to the place....?

As you're a fan, you probably have more than one favorite? What are your top three?

I don't suppose he ever wrote anything that at least 'ended' on a somewhat hopeful note? I really do have an appreciation for his talent...



posted on Sep, 17 2013 @ 01:47 AM
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I was turned onto this book at age 15 by someone older than me who was somewhat framed for a murder in the following year and went away for 60 years. Me and some from my group of friends got our names in the paper as we had to testify even though we were not there. We were minors and they called us all satanists. I never finished reading the book. I read a few parts but didn't really absorb any of it. The summary from my friend was that the elders were liars and had done some thing against the ancient ones and were actually the ones in the wrong.... A bit of my word against yours type of thing.... and I have no idea what any of it means.

...but recently, I have come to think that there may actually be higher powers that work against each other and that is the reason for, as of yet, there being no true order. I also think that powers from long ago who have destroyed creations and species have rendered themselves at a karmic disadvantage in trying to set something right, at their own cost. past battles, past endeavors... whatever you want to call it, but that this higher awareness will re-emerge and we will one day re enter a time of deeper spirituality and personal empowerment, unlike what we see today...and that the powers of this age have stained themselves with the blood of their own battles until they are weak from the intoxication of their own pride and ego.

What I'm saying is that there is a shift I see.

People worship idols and their idols will be crushed like mere statues.

I am still curious about the book but will doubtfully ever read it because I do not feel it will give me any answers I need. I tend to regret the way people will tie something to another person so fast and cause them to have to carry it around with them on and on, the way our reading of such books caused there to be headlines in our city's paper saying MURDER: SATANIC RITUAL.

It was no such thing. The man was shot with a revolver and his wallet was taken.
I know what happened... and my friend was involved, but it didn't happen the way they said it did.
edit on 2201330AM9AM57p47America/Chicago by NotAnAspie because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2013 @ 02:36 AM
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lostgirl

I don't suppose he ever wrote anything that at least 'ended' on a somewhat hopeful note? I really do have an appreciation for his talent...



He absolutely did.

Randolph Carter, a cipher for Lovecraft himself, undergoes a dramatic transformative progression throughout the course of several tales. He begins in roughly the same state the reader finds herself in: uncomprehending horror.

Confronting the unspeakable, he attains self-mastery, discovery, understanding, and finally-- transcendence.

"The Statement of Randolph Carter" (1919)
"The Unnamable" (1923)
"The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath" (1926-1927)
"The Silver Key" (1926)
"The Case of Charles Dexter Ward" (1927)
"Through the Gates of the Silver Key" (1933)

In the last story, it is strongly implied that Carter is a temporal manifestation of a hyperdimensional entity, known as Yog-Sothoth. That which inspired terror is transmuted into wonder by Carter's act of bravery-- his daring refusal to stay confined to "a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity."

Also, the majority of his large circle of friends report that Lovecraft had an easy, amiable temperament; and contrary to popular belief, was a fairly happy, well-adjusted person. This is borne out (for the most part) by the tone and content of his voluminous correspondence.

edit on 17-9-2013 by Eidolon23 because:




posted on Sep, 17 2013 @ 04:32 AM
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reply to post by Kantzveldt
 


It's obvious that this was a source in the Simon Necronomicon given the Sumerian names involved and direct copying from the text in parts, and it's also obvious this was interwoven with Babylonian elements of Ishtars descent, in fact it's ridiculously obvious.

If you're really looking for the actual inspiration for Simon's variation of the Sleep of Ishtar, you need look no further than the 1915 translation of the Descent of Ishtar. There are a few key elements to why this specific Babylonian account is the source for Simon's work, over a Sumerian one, which I will explain.

For ease of reference, here is how I will refer to each account as:

Sumerian version, found here, is the original.
Babylonian version 1, found here, is the version which Simon based his work on.
Babylonian version 2, found here, is the Babylonian account you linked to.

Alright, so, here is why Babylonian version 1 is Simon's influence:

1) Ishtar's motivation for descending to the Underworld.

In the Sumerian account Inanna's motivation is to steal Ereshkigal's kingdom, under the guise of mourning over Gugalana's death. In Babylonian version 2 her motivation is to visit Tammuz and see what his life is like in the Underworld. In both the Babylonian version 1 and Simon's account Ishtar is given no motivation for descending into the Underworld:


To the land of no return, the land of darkness,
Ishtar, the daughter of Sin directed her thought,
Directed her thought, Ishtar, the daughter of Sin,
To the house of shadows, the dwelling, of Irkalla,
To the house without exit for him who enters therein,
To the road, whence there is no turning,
To the house without light for him who enters therein,
The place where dust is their nourishment, clay their food.'
They have no light, in darkness they dwell.

Babylonian Version 1


Yet ISHTAR
Queen of Heaven
Bright Light of the Nights
Mistress of the Gods
Set her mind in that direction
From Above she set her mind
To Below she set her mind
From the Heavens she set forth
To the Abyss
Out of the Gates of the Living
To enter the Gates of Death
Out of the Lands we know
Into the Lands we know not

Simon's Account

2) Ereshkigal's reaction to Inanna's arrival.

Here is the really interesting bit. In both the Sumerian account, and Babylonian version 2, Ereshkigal responds to Inanna/Ishtar's coming with anger and bitterness. In Babylonian version 1, however, as in Simon's account, Ereshkigal responds with fear, cowering, and trembling:



When Ereshkigal heard this,
As when one hews down a tamarisk she trembled,
As when one cuts a reed, she shook

Babylonian Version 1




And ERESHKIGAL was pale with fear,
The Dark Waters stirred.

Simon's Account

So, here we have found the lack of Ishtar's motivation, and the fearful reaction of Ereshkigal to Ishtar's arrival. Both of which comes from a Babylonian account, and not a Sumerian account. What this means is that Simon was, first and foremost, influenced by this Babylonian account, second by other Babylonian account.

In fact, the threats of Ishtar to break down the gates and to steal the dead also only occur in Babylonian accounts of the Descent myth.

This thoroughly proves that Simon worked off of Babylonian, and not Sumerian accounts.

 


The "Hymn to the Queen of Nippur" was definitely interesting to me, and I am very appreciative of your linking to it for me.

What is odd to me, concerning the hymn, however, is that I can find no other translation of the hymn outside of that single Google books result. This is unusual as much of Mesopotamian literature has been looked at by numerous authors.

In the book, if you read the whole chapter on the hymn, you will see that the tablets used to reconstruct the hymn have been greatly damaged.

As I suspected, the words inside the brackets are, as with most scholarly work, assumed lines of text, not actual lines of text present on the remaining pieces of the tablets. This is a common practice among archaeological translations of dead or foreign languages.

The second source, however, does seem to confirm that at one point in Mesopotamian history Ishtar was credited with the ability to resurrect the dead.

Seeing as her predecessor, Inanna, was resurrected, and through her actions both Dumuzi and Geshtinana were also able to seasonally resurrect, I can believe that the Semitic Babylonians would attribute her that power.

This is another point which I am willing to concede to you, and am grateful that you brought to my attention.

 



No that's not it at all, the conflict is based upon essential nature, i wouldn't consider the likes of Lamashtu and the Seven Evil Gallu Demons as motivated by idealism!


I think you've very grossly misjudged the Gallu demons. They are not evil. The Gallu are the "police" of the Underworld. When a law in the Underworld is broken, like Inanna leaving without supplying a replacement, the Gallu are summoned to make sure that order and balance are restored, like killing Dumuzi to replace Inanna.

They can be violent and mindless, sure, but they do not do so out of a malicious predisposition, but because they are upholding a set of laws, and if maintaining those laws requires force, then they will use it. It is no different than Ammit in Egyptian mythology. Ammit eats the essences of Egyptians who have broken the law; not because Ammit is evil, but because that is the role that had been ordained for it.

The three Lamashtu siblings are evil, no doubt about that, ha ha.

As for the Enmesarra/Enlil conflict, your own quoted material supports my stance on the matter:


The myth can be read as a theistically-slanted argument on two modes of defining order: an immutable cosmological order (m e / partsu) whose unmistakable champion is E n m e sh a r r a , against a protean, individual-centred, volitional, anthropomorphic order, whose champion is E n l i l .


Enmesarra is a stagnant, unchanging, "immutable" universe, whereas Enlil is a dynamic, evolving, "Protean" universe. It is a mythological representation of a changing of the guard: moving from one belief system into another; one set of deities to another; one philosophic approach to a different, and so on and so forth.

 



Never try to engage cthulhu in philosophical debate


Cthulhu doesn't speak, so debate is kind of impossible


~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Sep, 17 2013 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by Wandering Scribe
 



I think you're correct in that Babylonian source is the one primarily used, though my point still stands that elements such as Nin-Shubur and Enki could only be sourced from the Sumerian account, but all said and done it is not so important what Simon says.

The Hymn to the Queen of Nippur does seem to have been overlooked in recent times, but yes it is important, indeed it mentions within it that Istar was formerly known as Inanna, thus it is something of a bridging work in the development of the cult of Istar.

The reason that Istar is seen as able to raise the dead is that she is the embodiment of both the Morning star and Evening aspects of Venus, in Sumeria it was Nin-Shubur that effectively raised the dead (Inanna) by acting upon the advise of Enki with regards to a substitute being offered.

In Sumeria Inanna was only representative of the Evening star, the Morning star was represented by Nin-Shubur (Queen of the East), the Evening star was concerned with pro-creation, the Morning star with birthing, or bringing to fruition what the evening star had set in motion.

Nin-Shubur was also a warrior and thus also concerned with the conflicts associated with every aspect of birthing, what Inanna's descent into the underworld entails is thus the potential of the full circle being realized, the transition through death to rebirth.

Nin-shubur is also indirectly found in the Necronomicon in this aspect;



“Thee I invoke, Mistress of the Rising Star,
Queen of Magick, of the Mountains of MASHU!
Thee I call forth this day to guard this Most Holy mandal against the Seven Ensnarers, the Seven-Liers-In-Wait, the evil Maskim, the Evil Lords!
Thee I summon, Queen of the Eastern Ways, that thou mayest protect me from the Eye of Death, and the evil rays of the ENDUKUGGA and NINDUKUGGA!
Be watchful, Queen of the Eastern Ways, and Remember!
Spirit of the East, Remember!”




The Morning Star represents the spirit of Venus in the light of day, the unseen aspect of Venus, working in conjunction with the Sun, and is concerned with rational functionality such as running the Universe...what some call magic others call science.

My faithful minister of the E-ana, my Ninšubur of the E-ana, (you said "I, the august minister of the universe, I, Ninšubur of the universe, the faithful minister of the Anuna gods, Ninšubur of the Anuna gods, the faithful minister, the personal god of the Land, Ninšubur, the personal god of the Land, the faithful minister, the mother of the Land, Ninšubur, the mother of the Land


Ninsubur B


Lady, good seed of the Land, minister of An! Minister of An, mother Nincubur! From the interior of heaven, An bestowed upon you (?), and Enlil destined as your (?) fate, that you should take a lapis-lazuli sceptre in your hand and proceed in front of An

I will soothe hearts, I will soothe spirits. I will appease the Anuna gods ....... I, who am to serve -- I, the tutelary deity, who am to serve ......, I will make the young lady, Inana, born in the shining mountains, rejoice. I, the lady, ......, will make her rejoice. I will soothe hearts, I will soothe spirits. I will appease the Anuna gods ......." This is how the lady celebrated in Akkil.


Ninsubur A


This is perhaps why you failed to notice she who hides in the light...



Inanna spoke to her, saying:
'Ninshubur, my constant support,
My sukkal who gives me wise advice,
My warrior who fights by my side



Hyper Competent Sidekick




The Gallu Demons are seen to act upon certain principles, that is true, but in their interactions with humanity should always be seen as evil and hostile, such as in the tale of Erra and Ishum here.


The Seven, warriors unrivalled, their divine nature is different,
Their origins are strange, they are terrifying,
Whoever sees them is numbed with fear.
Their breath of life is death,
People are too frightened to appproach it!



The principle that gave rise to the apocalyptic activities of the seven there was the dismissal of the Seven Sages back into the Abzu, thus nature abhorring a vacuum.

The first state of the Universe under Enmesarra is described as immutable, but that doesn't necessarily imply stagnant, in that within themselves the principles of chaos are quite dynamic, but also of course they can't have been that immutable...


edit on 17-9-2013 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-9-2013 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2013 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by Kantzveldt
 


Ninshubru is hardly alluded to... The Goddess of East gate helps spin the tunes and starts the dance!

Need some symbolism and some fun music to start walkin those Gates? Put on a party dress and Dance!

...hey wait what's that hot Vampyr doing in there?
hehe



posted on Sep, 18 2013 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by Wandering Scribe
 


An exceptional post, Wandering Scribe, incredible clarity in outlining not only the religious evolution of Sumer, but also, by association the increasing complexity of their cosmology. Thank you.

The following is particularly interesting.


Wandering Scribe
An's worship, during recorded Sumerian history, is very scarce. His main temple, the E-ana in the city-state of Uruk, was commandeered by the goddess Inanna even. An is, to draw a parallel, like the Titanic generations of Greek mythology: coming before the Olympians, but having lost nearly, if not all, worship and status by the time of recorded history. If, however, you do enough digging in Sumerian mythology and literature, you will find four such pre-Anunnaki deities, they are:

An, the Heavens
Antu, the Sky
Urash, the Earth
Nammu, the Abyss/Sea

Right away it should be obvious that these four—whose worship may go back as far as 3000 years before that of commonly recognized Sumerian religion—are keepers of a sole office: Heaven, Sky, Land, Sea. They do not have diverse functions. In fact, the Sumerians, or their predecessors the Ubaids, had a very defined view of them, it looked something like this:





I do not know whether you have read John M Allegro's The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, but Allegro concluded, via philology, that a single phoneme 'U' unites all the Near Eastern 'Sky' gods, and suggest that the derivative use of that phoneme indicates that those religious systems were preceded by a prehistorical Monotheism. The 'U' spreads in both directions, East and West, and is formative in both 'Zeus' and his son 'Dionysus', phonetically. What you report seems, to some extent, to confirm this, however Allegro concluded that 'U' was the original and only god, what you have outlined points elsewhere, 'U' would be derivative of 'An'. 'An' enters into the shadows, cosmologically, and with the increasing awareness of the Earth's place in that cosmology, that makes sense, as he is creator of the Universe and therefore exists outside of it, only his 'U' penetrating in order to spread the seed of creation.

Very helpful, again, thank you very much.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 02:53 AM
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When I noticed ALEISTER CROWLEY, sad thing was, he was nobody special,
he was nothing more than a deranged sexual deviant and drug abuse,
its no wonder why he saw illusions. He also mentions it himself
of all the time he was trying to follow magic, was pointless
in his later years. Only
did it for revenge against religion.

He never conjured anything or found anything demonic, nothing
more than a illusion. Actually felt sorry for aleister crowley on
way how religion broke him
. He was just a normal man just
like you or me, he was following his sexual lust of women,
trying to find proof of demons, and magic and yet
he found nothing.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 08:44 AM
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BlavatskyChannel
As above so below.. or so the saying goes..

Interesting how the 7 gods, heavens, gates are symbolic of the 7 chakras in man..
Each one opens up and allows energy to flow through it.. each energy its own unique print..

Just a thought
. Excellent point! Thank you and to my dear OP, this is an outstanding thread! Thank you.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by aerial
 


When I noticed ALEISTER CROWLEY, sad thing was, he was nobody special, he was nothing more than a deranged sexual deviant and drug abuse

You forgot poet, author, polymath, and religious founder.


its no wonder why he saw illusions. He also mentions it himself of all the time he was trying to follow magic, was pointless in his later years. Only did it for revenge against religion.

Crowley founded, and believed in, the religion of Thelema. "Magick" was not a rebellion against religion and spirituality, but an embrace of it at its most primal, ecstatic state.


He never conjured anything or found anything demonic, nothing more than a illusion.

I think that really depends on whose biography of him you're reading.

In Crowley's own works he recounts numerous occasions where he had great success with summoning:

• the 72 demons in the Lesser Key of Solomon: the Ars Goetia
• the 32 æthyrs utilized in the 14 Enochian Calls delivered to Dr. John Dee
• his Holy Guardian Angel with the ritual in The Book of the Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage
• Aiwass, the spiritual guide who helped him write the manifesto for Thelema


Actually felt sorry for aleister crowley on way how religion broke him

Religion didn't break Crowley. Heroin and coc aine did.


He was just a normal man just like you or me, he was following his sexual lust of women,
trying to find proof of demons, and magic and yet he found nothing.

• Numerous written works on Qabala and Theosophy
• Membership in the Golden Dawn, O.T.O., Freemasons, and Thelema
The Book of Thoth outlining the spiritual use of the Tarot
The Equinox published from 1909-1913
• The Abbey of Thelema
• Summoning the 72 Goetia demons
• Invoking the 32 Enochian æthyrs
• Contacting his Holy Guardian Angel
• Receiving transmissions from Aiwass for the Book of the Law

All of this points toward Crowley's genuine belief in, and practice of, magick.

Whether or not you attribute exaggeration and ego to Crowley's claims is irrelevant, the plain truth is that he did believe in the things he practiced and preached. Crowley truly believed he was living a magickal life.

~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 09:20 AM
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aerial
When I noticed ALEISTER CROWLEY, sad thing was, he was nobody special,
he was nothing more than a deranged sexual deviant and drug abuse,
its no wonder why he saw illusions. He also mentions it himself
of all the time he was trying to follow magic, was pointless
in his later years. Only
did it for revenge against religion.

He never conjured anything or found anything demonic, nothing
more than a illusion. Actually felt sorry for aleister crowley on
way how religion broke him
. He was just a normal man just
like you or me, he was following his sexual lust of women,
trying to find proof of demons, and magic and yet
he found nothing.




I know what you mean. I remember seeing a very illuminating interview with Crowley given right at the end of his life, after he'd had his child, and he was talking about how for the first time in his life he'd actually found true happiness, and how regretful he was that he'd wasted so much of his existence on this planet in chasing after all of this madness and his revenge on religion. And how apologetic he was to people who had followed him.

It was rather tragic. But also oddly uplifting that at the end, finally, he'd found some happiness and contentment.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


This marks the third time (at least) that an ATS user has recommended "The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross" to me. I'll definitely have to keep my eyes peeled for if/when a copy shows up at my local bookstore.

As for the idea of the "U" as an original god... I'm iffy.

If anything, the original veneration was of the Earth as a mother-figure. So, a monotheistic Mother-Goddess worship. But, I don't actually believe that monotheism is the root of religious worship. I believe monotheism is an evolution of religious worship.

That's an entirely different topic then the one at hand though, ha ha.

Glad you appreciated the reply, and sorry I don't have too much more to add, just don't want to derail a thread about the Necronomicon with a "history of religion" discussion.

~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 09:31 AM
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littled16
reply to post by Kantzveldt
 


I spent a whole long holiday weekend last year debating this very thing with my oldest daughter- I maintaining that though loosely related and unordered that parts of the Necronomicon were very obviously taken from ancient civilizations mythos and spiritual belief traditions, she from the point of it being completely fictitious with no basis in any ancient religion whatsoever. She refused to see any of the similarities and I refused to un-see them so a truce was reached.

While it is a beautiful work of fiction it is still just that- fiction. There has been much success reported of those using ritual from the book to bring forth dark entities but I think it may be because darkness seeks any entrance it can find and perhaps intent is enough to aid in it's crossing of the veil- JMHO.



Actually, you're both probably equally right. That might sound confusing at first, but I'll try to explain as best as I can.

Lovecraft barely went to school his whole life. He was often ill as a child and rarely attended school until he was 8, and even after that, he was withdrawn from school after a year. He never graduated High School either, mostly because of his difficulty with higher level mathematics. He did however, "read voraciously" during this period of his life, but he was obsessed with Astronomy and Chemistry (the telescope and microscope! As below so above! haha).

Having said that, I'm just assuming that he really didn't take interest much in history, religion, spirituality, or social studies in general.

What I'm trying to get at, is that Lovecraft's mythology obviously does have elements of past civilizations and historical religious references, however I do not think that these were specifically intended. Unlike J.R.R. Tolkien did when he purposefully blended history with his mythos, and George Lucas when he blended eastern concepts into the Jedi (samurai), or Buddhism with Yoda (yoga).

First of all, you should acquaint yourself with Aleister Crowley and Kenneth Grant's obsession with H.P. Lovecraft. If you did, you would know that they were strong proponents of the theory that Lovecraft actually had access to other "dimensions" if you will, even if it was subconscious and unknown to him.
Their evidence, is that Lovecraft describes things involved with the occult and magick in great detail, things that he could not have known at the time. Things akin to descriptions of internal dimensions, higher dimensions of consciousness, cosmic beings, colossal alien gods, Great Old Ones, amphibious ancient astronauts, etc... Kenneth Grant specifically was obsessed with Lovecraft's mythos, Crowley wasn't obsessed, merely interested. Grant, however, went so far as to incorporate his entire system of Magick within Lovecraftian concepts. The worlds and entities that Lovecraft describes are so specific and detailed, that he must have been describing them from actual internal visions, not just making up words.

This is a huge mystery in the occult world, and very interesting one at that. There is a simple article for the laymen not involved in the occult, that can be easily understood by anyone, in the Darklore book series. I think it is specifically issue number 6, although I could be wrong. There is an article called "Calling Cthulu" I think, and it is specifically about Kenneth Grant, Aleister Crowley, H.P. Lovecraft, and their connections.

My point to all this is that what may be seemingly borrowed from ancient texts and cultures, might actually be internal visions of interdimensional planes, that have the universal and transpersonal archetypes included within history's civilizations. So in essence, both you and your daughter are right, and equally wrong.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 11:14 AM
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Seven Demons...
"Gallu demons hauled unfortunate victims off to the underworld. They were one of seven devils (or "the offspring of hell") of Babylonian theology that could be appeased by the sacrifice of a lamb at their altars"

Within Hell's Canyon stand the Seven Devils named after an Nez Perce Indian Legend. There were seven demons who roamed that area and when they mountain sheep became few the devils would eat children. After threatening the tribe for many, many years finally a brave warrior named Coyote came up with a plan to trap those Demons within the Earth. They dug Seven pits and filled them boiling water setting a trap. They disguised themselves a called the Demons who seeking more children to devour! But they were tricked and fell into the pits which rose up into great pointed mountains as the Demons tried to crawl out instead pulling down more rocks upon themselves. Of these majestic mountains the He Devil stands 9,000 feet, locals say you can sometimes you hear a rumble...

Perhaps Devils are best left buried as some know what havoc they bring.

In the Abrahamic religions Lambs are sacrificed to appease their god in an attempt to have forgiveness in Sin

In the classification of Demons Bishop Peter Binsfeld in 1589 based his classification of Demons known as the princes of Hell who tempted people via the Seven deadly sins.

Lucifer: pride
Mammon: greed
Asmodeus: lust
Leviathan: envy
Beelzebub: gluttony
Satan: wrath
Belphegor: sloth

In the movie Se7en poor Gweneth became the symbolic yet cliché sacrificial lamb to the horrible deeds of the serial killer who believed he was guided by god but was instead possibly possessed?

Personally I like 7 and all this talk of Demons, Necro/Techonomicrons this time
I would rather give them less power in a 4 x 7 rhyme.

7 Hills of Rome and 7 Kings of Rome
7 Books in the Harry Potter Tome
7 Ancient wonders we seek
7 days are in our week
7 colors of a Rainbow
7 masters of Tao
7 cities of Spanish Gold
7 is lucky or so I am told

Seven veils did Salome dance
Johns head on a platter did glance
but a story taken out of context by chance?

Seven Gates the truth be told
Did Inanna pass naked but bold
Seven judges did render their decision
Only Ninshubur rendered her excision!


7 blunders did Gandhi have notion
7 Chinese brothers swallowing the ocean
7 wise masters of devotion
7 Endless before I run out of steam
Destiny, Delirium, Dream, Destruction, Despair, Desire, Death, and Dream
7 by 4 will be 28 lines as I predicted
7 stars in the heaven why are only 6 are depicted?
7 of Nine always on the scene no longer machine
7 years did Thomas spend with the Fairy Queen
7 is my number too as my poem comes to an end

Thomas the True a prophet, poet, wizard, and friend...

edit on 19-9-2013 by abeverage because: I am forever fighting chaos...and I am a dolt lol



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