Overview of the Necronomicon

reply to post by Kantzveldt

First: Let me say I like that you are taking a real approach to this topic.

Ok so the Mythos that has created the Necronomicon comes from a few sources. As you have pointed out (quite well if I may) from a few ancient religions and superstitions. The nature of the book could have from an ancient practice, as outlined in this old thread:
ATS: Al Azif:Is the Necronomicon real?

Guyfriday
Sorry, but after lurking in the shadows of ATS I have to post something on this;

The book doesn't exist (as many have said), but the idea of a book like this could exist. Please let me explain:

The idea of finding a "Lost Book of Wisdom" out in the desert is very possible. Many nomatic tribes in the Arabian Desert hide books that have been past down for 100s of years within a clan. Some of these books pre-date the rise of Islam in Arabia (so yes they are very old books out in the desert)

Due to the nature of these little known religons (at the time), a person who came across one of these books may have misunderstood the contents of what they have found.

While the idea of using a recurring mystery book wasn't exclusive to Lovecraft (look up "The King in Yellow") His short stories seem to have hit a nerve better than any other writer has.

I think thats the biggest mystery about it is, "Why does this one non-book affect so many people the way it does?"

Thank you for reading.

***A NOTE OF DISCLOSURE***

While studying "Shadow People" I have come across quite a few dead ends that would lead to H.P.Lovecrafts writings. After reading some papers written by Aleister Crowley about Lovecrafts stories, I was intrigued in them. Good stories, but sadly that's all they are. On the other hand how they came into being was interesting but not very paranormal.

I did find evidence (as in historical notes and stories) that a book like the Necronomicon does exists, but not in the way it's portrayed in Lovecrafts stories. Out in the Desserts of Africa many tribes bury books that make up the history and power of their tribes. These books contain everything from religious tomes to scrolls on mathematic treaties.

***END OF DISCLOSURE***

Speculative statement:

If a person who doesn't have any knowledge of Arabic script might view these books buried in the desserts as some sort of mystical books with other books with mystical circles and other geometric shapes. If they asked any of the local tribes about these books, they would either deny that they know where they are at, or would threaten the person to not talk about them. This would no-doubtly enhance the persons belief that these books are cured with forbidden knowledge.

In the end the person would go away with a mis-understanding as to what the books contained. The books themselves do indeed contain power, but it is the power of knowledge and not the power of the occult.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Ah not a Goblin Queen...wait....A Borg Queen.


Or one of her better known adjuncts


Why do I smell honey and hear the drones, Resistance is Futile!

Guyfriday
I did find evidence (as in historical notes and stories) that a book like the Necronomicon does exists, but not in the way it's portrayed in Lovecrafts stories. Out in the Desserts of Africa many tribes bury books that make up the history and power of their tribes. These books contain everything from religious tomes to scrolls on mathematic treaties.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Thank you for adding a video to my comment.

reply to post by Guyfriday



Yes i'm sure you have a point, the tales of the Book whilst not true at face value might give indication of traditions were elements of the old Babylon corpus as translated into Semitic script may have surfaced.

Kantzveldt
reply to post by Guyfriday

 

Yes i'm sure you have a point, the tales of the Book whilst not true at face value might give indication of traditions were elements of the old Babylon corpus as translated into Semitic script may have surfaced.

To me the Epic of Gilgamesh showing up in the Biblical/Torah flood stories should be proof enough that it would be possible for a real Necronmicon to exist. But ponder this a bit if such tome existed and its collection did have secrets for summoning either otherworldly beings or possibly changing the states of reality how readily available would it be?

The Simon Grimoire is a toy representing a real book of which only a very scant few copies exist both purposefully and intentionally. One does not just hand out the keys to the castle to just any knave who passes by.

reply to post by abeverage



So do you think Giger had all of that in mind when he was creating his stuff?

Because he unquestionably succeeds I think, viewing Giger's art does produce a very odd internal resonance. The sort of thing you don't often experience, even in the artwork of the grotesque.

abeverage
The Simon Grimoire is a toy representing a real book of which only a very scant few copies exist both purposefully and intentionally. One does not just hand out the keys to the castle to just any knave who passes by.

Without agreeing to the existence of such a book, as described, if one takes the trouble to record such information, it is likely that they have done so for it's preservation. In which case, one would take the precautions necessary not only to protect the information from those uninitiated, but also to ensure that it was available for future reference by those with the understanding required. For example, for modern comparison, R Gordon Wasson's Mushrooms, Russia and History. Wasson only had 512 copies printed, a few for friends, and one for each of the major libraries he deemed worthy to carry it. He did not consider that it was suitable for the mindless masses who would abuse the knowledge for recreational purposes. (It can now be read online, though strictly speaking, that is in violation of Wasson's instructions.)

It is possible, that like many Ancient texts, it could only have survived as a reference in another later work. It is also possible that if a copy were to emerge that it may unrecognisable due to the numerous and wonderful flights of imagination that have filled the gaps during the interim.

Painterz
reply to post by abeverage

 

So do you think Giger had all of that in mind when he was creating his stuff?

Because he unquestionably succeeds I think, viewing Giger's art does produce a very odd internal resonance. The sort of thing you don't often experience, even in the artwork of the grotesque.

I most certainly do believe that he knew exactly what he was creating and its effect.

Do not think for a moment that Ridley Scott didn't know exactly what he was getting in hiring him for Alien! Ridley also does this in the medium of film for the same visceral and primitive reasons! There is a almost a psychological violation a mental molestation if you will. While I wouldn't call it rape, because we often subject ourselves to it we are willing participants so it borders. Alien itself is all about violation of several different natures including that of humanity with Ash a synthetic. Themes of blood and penetration along with explosive releases (exploding chests to flamethrowers) follow my original opinion of Giger's sexual frustrated work, and bury themselves deep in your subconscious.

Much of Gigers work is Demonic, sexual demented along with frustrated and ultimately uninspired ideals. It panders to elites with a pension for tortured erotica who's deviances have sunk so low the are in love with themselves so much so they do not realize true expression. But most of it is frankly silly childish shadow puppets playing at slimy things humping and crawling in the dark.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Hi Kantzveldt,

Thanks for a fun thread, I enjoyed learning about the Maqlu text. I am of the belief that Peter Levenda* is Simon of The Simon Necronomicon, and although I was aware that he had used Babylonian and possibly Sumerian source texts for his literary hoax, I did not know about the maqlu thing. Very cool, and really interesting to read your assessment of the whole thing.

Have a good afternoon,



*

KilgoreTrout

abeverage
The Simon Grimoire is a toy representing a real book of which only a very scant few copies exist both purposefully and intentionally. One does not just hand out the keys to the castle to just any knave who passes by.

Without agreeing to the existence of such a book, as described, if one takes the trouble to record such information, it is likely that they have done so for it's preservation. In which case, one would take the precautions necessary not only to protect the information from those uninitiated, but also to ensure that it was available for future reference by those with the understanding required. For example, for modern comparison, R Gordon Wasson's Mushrooms, Russia and History. Wasson only had 512 copies printed, a few for friends, and one for each of the major libraries he deemed worthy to carry it. He did not consider that it was suitable for the mindless masses who would abuse the knowledge for recreational purposes. (It can now be read online, though strictly speaking, that is in violation of Wasson's instructions.)

It is possible, that like many Ancient texts, it could only have survived as a reference in another later work. It is also possible that if a copy were to emerge that it may unrecognisable due to the numerous and wonderful flights of imagination that have filled the gaps during the interim.

Ask the Vatican I assure you they have manuscripts, tomes, grimoires, codices that contain most all lost knowledge.

And any time they come across it they hide it up or if it is known it is Destroyed! The Dresden Codex is prime example, there are other Mayan codices but most were burned because they didn't want the knowledge to go back into the hands of the priests or people once they were converted to Christianity.

Sorry to drift OT Kantz...

Back to the Necronomicon, it is sad that in these times unless you were a Paleographer/Linguistics/History/Demonologist expert or extremely wealthy it is doubtful you would ever even see a copy, but who knows with the information age...

And you do have to wonder if the stories have been distorted through time.

As an avid Lovecraft fan (no one writes madness like him), we should take note of his world-view and the parallels between that and his writing. Lovecraft was writing in a time of discovery and exploration, his opinion of these cultures seems to take a certain slant, describing indigenous peoples as "degenerate, savages, backwards".

It would appear he had a certain view of old world civilisation, comparing (as a catch all) "tribal" peoples this way and ascribing horror to their ancient and monstrous gods, whether this was an inspiration for Lovecraft or a way for him to propagate his ideology is unclear. I'll just come out and say he was a racist by our modern sensibilities Cart, horse, etc.

"If I could create an ideal world, it would be an England with the fire of the Elizabethans, the correct taste of the Georgians, and the refinement and pure ideals of the Victorians."

Honestly, so far as HP goes, he was trying to make sense of his world and like a good author he was researching and using exotic sources, coming from the chaos of the past to the safety, modernity and organisation of the modern world, he found a wealth of material there.

As for the Necronomicon, there have been Books of the Dead in many different cultures and I tend to think of it as an amusing oddity and a hoax - as food for thought, that could well pertain to the inversion so popular in dark-magik that truth = lies etc.

Gieger - issues with his mother I think.




"The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind".

abeverage

I most certainly do believe that he knew exactly what he was creating and its effect.

Do not think for a moment that Ridley Scott didn't know exactly what he was getting in hiring him for Alien! Ridley also does this in the medium of film for the same visceral and primitive reasons! There is a almost a psychological violation a mental molestation if you will. While I wouldn't call it rape, because we often subject ourselves to it we are willing participants so it borders. Alien itself is all about violation of several different natures including that of humanity with Ash a synthetic. Themes of blood and penetration along with explosive releases (exploding chests to flamethrowers) follow my original opinion of Giger's sexual frustrated work, and bury themselves deep in your subconscious.

edit on 13-9-2013 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

At a slight tangent I realised something new about Alien just the other day that plays into your point about the movie. Somebody screencapped the flash of personnel files you get at the beginning of the movie, and it turns out Dallas was Trans.

Which adds another layer to the characters all being different natures and expressions of humanity.


I've always wondered if Giger is as screwed up as his work seems to suggest, or if it just so happens that he's struck on this style and it turned out to be popular and powerful, so he's run with it. Saw him interviewed a few times, but he was mostly just talking about how much he hated Aliens because he felt it watered down his original alien designs.

Anyway, I digress, thank you for a fascinating thread.

reply to post by Bybyots



Glad you enjoyed the Maqlu text it's a big favourite of mine also, there are actually three Gods of fire involved within it just for good measure, Girra, Nuska and Gibil, the latter of whom not much is known.


Nuska


Girra


Nuska is closely associated with Enlil and the spiritual principle of fire and light and it's protective qualitites, whereas Girra was a more general purpose God of fire and light and its applied usages, commonly associated with Enki, it can also be said of Gibil he was as a son or closely associated with Anu.


In a sense the big three each having their own personal fire God reinforces what i mentioned in the OP about the three lights of the Lodge being derivative of those three.

Girra, burn the warlock and the witch!
Girra, fry the warlock and the witch!
Girra, incinerate them!
Girra, fry them!
Girra, get them!
Girra, devour away!
Girra, take them away!

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Thanks for the amazing research you have done, on this thread and others.
As you put this picture together, it is becoming more and more credible to
me. Not that I didn't believe you in the earlier threads, I just tend to reserve
judgement

I came across this information just before while researching "the nine" which
ties them to the old ones and Lovecraft's stories, so instead of going to bed,
I thought I'd put it up on here.

Techno/necros?

On this Plateau, in what is now Tibet, awful things lived, and
: from this Plateau awful things have periodically come to
: plague mankind. The early journalist Howard Phillips
: Lovecraft has written about the Plateau of Leng and its
: extension the Plateau of Tsang, and of the awful Tcho-Tcho
: dwarfs.

: One of the most powerful of these agents has been the group
: known as the “Nine Unknown.” Under that name they
: came to the attention of modern readers courtesy of the
: work of the journalist Talbot Mundy , but the truth is
: that they existed before their battles with James Schuyler
: Grim and survived his passing.

: The Nine Unknown is an organization of evil lamas given
: unnatural powers and greatly advanced science by the Old
: Ones. The Nine Unknown use these powers to further the
: worship of the Old Ones and to spread misery and chaos
: across the world. Some information about them is already
: known, but much has only recently been revealed.

: Unlike Yue-Laou, they have not hid in the Plateau of Leng and
: had little contact with the outside world; the Nine Unknown
: have been active on the part of the forces they represent,
: and have bases and agents around the world.

: The Nine suffer many defeats, but they always survive, only
: their agents and lesser forces being destroyed. The Nine
: seem to believe that the Old Ones they worship will
: eventually return to rule the Earth, and that patience and
: endurance will see them through.

The Nine Are The Ones At Top Of NWO Pyramid

Guyfriday
The books themselves do indeed contain power, but it is the power of knowledge and not the power of the occult.

I would avoid books like this myself, you don't know for certain where the author got this information from, it very well could come from a fallen angel/ demonic source.

Satan's first half truth lie which is still used today in different ways, "This fruit will give you knowledge, and you will not die if you eat it." Adam and Eve were mean to be immortal, that act removed that, and they did get some knowledge, but it wasn't as great as promised.

You will be like God and have knowledge like God. No you won't through Satan's ways, but you will have wisdom and eternal life through Jesus the co-creator of the universe.

WONDERFUL THREAD

Very well done and a fine example of what ATS is all about

This thread inspired me to delve further into Lovecraft's work.. While he has always been one of my favorites, there was much I did not know.

Thank you for connecting the dots for me

reply to post by Kantzveldt

I am Curious Kantz, was this another warm up for a main event thread?

The Simon Necronomicon is toy, but a useful toy leading the uninitiated toward deeper waters. And I kept thinking why the Giger images? Sure they are related in name or perhaps they needed to be divined through synchronism...

Giger images much like the FL images in the Language of the Vampyr thread, creates symmetry. But Giger knows the mind and so adds asymmetrical details sometimes almost so completely hidden, that your conscious mind knows there is something misplaced. Symmetry is crucial to memory, we remember objects in geometrical shapes and patterns first filling in the details second.

In the book I linked, Leyton gives an example of a crushed can, we see the can and add the dents so to speak. Giger purposefully flaws his symmetrical images so that it sticks in your mind, like a song or melody (I wont get into ear worms now), but it stays there like the game "One of these things is not like the others..."
Mmmm Cookies!

Human minds quickly see the pattern and know something is missing...
So what is missing Kantz? Are you looking for something or are you helping someone find what is missing?

Oh and Techno/Necro...Borg...well come on we are all Digital Elves sometimes.Internet Connections... Connect the digital dots.


Now I mentioned 13 yesterday hoping it would have more significance, with Inferno N'astirh needed 13 Babies to open the gate, but this was a silly comic book crossover. Or perhaps it was an initiation much like a Giger image to be kept at the back of mind for later use...

The babies are symbolic and represent human minds or more specifically innocent minds so now we put 13 in our conscious mind and direct it back toward the Necronomicon...

13 Gates of the Necronomicon and where does Simon fit in? Why those same gates...The Gates of the Necronomicon

Ok so we know that the Necronomicon has led us to Gates...but what Gates? Kantz knows...

Being it is September if I were a numerologist 9 would surly have been a clue! Hmm 9 and 13 X marks the spot. Well I mentioned the 13 in the X-men, I also mentioned a Goblin Queen who is a clue, so I need to take that step back to 9.

9 and Gates...Nine a number that is Fine, Plinth at the base of the Ninth, A Ninth Gate is great when you can relate...

hehe

A *SPOILER ALERT*

Now in The 9th Gate we see the characters researching a fictional book called The Nine Gates of the Kingdom of Shadows hmm a fictional book eh? Also they main character is helped by a mysterious woman (Wonder if she knows anything about goblins..)
But the characters run into a conundrum, the manuscript seems incomplete and there are 3 versions! (They must have failed at opening the gates, in other words). So they seek to combine all 3 tomes and It is then figured out that each engraving is a clue to opening the Gates, each version of the tome must be used together.

But all Gates have a Lock and need a Key, and what would that be? Unless you know perhaps I shall just keep it with me...

Double post? Move along...

I have come across one version of the Necronomicon, it started with someone taking some plant based hallucinogen from the smoke of a camp fire, then goes into listing all the different demons and their symbols. I never got right into it or practiced any of it, but just a passing general interest.

In terms of Techno-Necros, 'The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave' by Cisco Wheeler and Fritz Springmeier is recommended reading for a practical application of demonology. Part of the mind control process involves using stories to help build alters and plant triggers, stories like 'The wizard of Oz' and 'Alice in Wonderland' are referenced in the programming of people. Frameworks of demonology is also used, with the books like the Necronomicon providing an important foundation in the mind control process once the soul / individual character has been broken. If the mind controlled slave does experience problems with their mental state, the handlers falling back to the demonic approaches does work in getting them back in line. With advancing cybernetic research and development I have no idea where it is going, just some concern.


reply to post by abeverage

He becomes more than just a Demon, increasing his magical potential because of the computational powers of his computer virus!

When considering the theories of reverse engineering of UFO's and the current political climate that is going on, the future threats to humanities self determination is defiantly one to watch out for.


reply to post by Kantzveldt

there are actually three Gods of fire involved within it just for good measure, Girra, Nuska and Gibil, the latter of whom not much is known.

There is also three elements to fire: heat, oxygen and fuel. Not sure if it helps in finding Gibil.