Undeniable logic proving that god created the universe.

Cedik
reply to post by miniatus

 

it is undeniable because it is a fact... how else can life be created other than with life itself. Please explain to me how one would create any living organism from dead matter?

This is not for us to deliver to you, but for you to learn. It's not hidden knowledge.

"I don't know how to bake a cake. So therefore, Gourmet Chefs!"
"But baking cakes is a step by step process, all you need is the right process and the ingredients. Find a cook book and the answers are there."
"Nope, I don't see cakes baking themselves. So Gourmet Chefs. Its the only answer."

You want the process explained to you... study.

Cedik
Can you think of one thing that is not created in this way?

Life on Earth, for one.

Your turn.

Cedik
reply to post by Ph03n1x

 

What information do you need? The evidence surrounds us all. It is a simple notion.

Life begets life, therefore the universe and all things within it were created. Not a random porridge of gunk that suddenly gets a pulse.

Nothing "Suddenly" got a pulse. Unless you need a god to do it.

That, sadly, shows how ignorant you are of the science involved, and not logically providing evidence of anything.

So.. do you prefer to educate yourself and be able to engage properly in the argument, or continue to base your points on illogical ignorance, of which it appears bliss is abundant.

reply to post by greavsie1971


Again, intelligence was not developed by life being created from the primordeal soup.

What nonsense.

Intelligence, even today, is rare. This thread is proof of that.

Intelligence is a new thing to life. A few hundred thousand years old.

Again, it is this "Instant" requirement that only exists in the minds of god advocates. You argue that "Nothing pops up suddenly unless there is god." and expect the rest of the world to go "Oh yeah.. good point.." when no one else is saying "instantly" anything.....

Cedik
reply to post by miniatus

 

Ok I see your point. I know of nothing that was not created by a living entity.

Except your god.

Or did he too have a god?

I'm just gonna dive right in here and see what come's my way! First why does the idea of God creating everything even exist? And 2, other then the Mad Science people wanting to play God, does any of it matter?

Why should it? Would it change anything or make a difference in this world? We might as well put this idea with alien's, gov plot's, and big foot!

The big bang, like it really happened is something from science and nothing more. I do love everybody's feedback though, it was a good reading so my time was not wasted after all!

reply to post by Cedik


and the origin of your alledged god is ????????????????????????

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the burden of proof fall on the person making the initial claim to facts or allegations?

Logical fallacy: Burden of Proof

Stating something is fact does not make it fact unless some sort of irrefutable evidence is presented to prove the statement.

As it stands, simple logic would dictate that organic matter cannot be created from inorganic matter but stranger things have been discovered.

Cedik
reply to post by miniatus

 

it is undeniable because it is a fact... how else can life be created other than with life itself. Please explain to me how one would create any living organism from dead matter?

There have been instances where, in a lab, scientists have been able to create building blocks of life that begin to assemble into possible early stages of life. We are able to do this with our current level of technology, imagine the research and findings possible with a major increase in technology?

Even if we could never explain how life forms, that doesn't imply proof of god. It simply implies that we don't have the knowledge. The argument you are using is no different from a person who doesn't understand why Earthquakes happen, so they attribute them to god.

That person could say "Nobody is able to explain how and why Earthquakes happen, which proves god causes Earthquakes" and they would be using the same argument you are. Just because we can't explain something doesn't mean it's the work of god. That's no different than the people who instantly attribute things to Aliens that we can't explain. Not being able to explain something is not proof of anything but lack of knowledge.

I'll approach your argument in another way as well. You say life cannot just randomly spring up. Well, maybe I believe that life has always been around in the universe for eternity, there was no beginning, it just always existed. You say that isn't possible? Why not? You think it's possible for god to have just always existed for eternity with no beginning, and without being created, so you support the idea that things can just exist with no beginning and no creation. Basically, if things can't exist without a creator, then where did the creator come from?

reply to post by holyTerror


Hit it on the nose! Might as well have put this in Rant. You would think there would be some ATS Police just waiting to Block a Post that has no "Make It Count" rule.



Everyone has a right to say something. I just hate; sorry dislike the one liner's!

May I just say that even though many of you seem to think that I am ill-informed, it is refreshing to read such a wide array of opinions on the subject and can only aid to help our understanding of the situation.

reply to post by Ph03n1x


"however this being about God/Life proof is impossible therefore disproving it is also impossible...."

I do not see this is correct.

No one on this thread or anywhere else I have seen has been able to think of one thing that is created of itself. I am not saying anything of god other than that the universe had to be 'created'. God as a creative thought process.

I am not wishing to go further on the nature of god in this thread, it is immaterial to the argument.

reply to post by abeverage


"God could have just as well made life spontaneous generate under certain circumstances or life could generate spontaneously without God, again neither statement proves God, but only that life could spontaneously generate."

Yes god could well have made life spontaneously generate or not but this statement proves nothing and is not based on real life. None of us could show any evidence to lead us towards this conclusion where as life as a creative force is demonstrated an unknowable amount of times per day.

reply to post by Ph03n1x


"Okay so you are basically taking what is in the book of genesis and passing it off as your own... Thanks for clearing that up...."

Ok great. I am not a Christian but if this theory is stated in that book then with my current understanding I would have to agree with it.

"You seem to be hostile to those who don't share you views so i will take that as my que to leave as i come here to discuss not to be preached to ..."

I must apologise for that. I was simply mirroring the bad feeling towards my post. My reaction is not acceptable. I am really not hostile and only wish to discuss this point, not tell people how to think. I believe it and would love to be guided if indeed it was wrong.

reply to post by miniatus


Just because something is generally accepted, does not make it true. There is no proof that life was created from the soup making it less plausible than the logic in my post.

reply to post by miniatus


The argument is not deniable as far as I am aware. You have been unable to do so, siting less well evidenced theories than the logic in my argument.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


"But that's how Creation science works. You don't actually have prove your theory. You just have to make unfounded statements and then point out flaws in the opposing theory and that somehow proves your own theory. It doesn't matter if that's not how the scientific method works."

This is not an unfounded statement. You were born, right?

May I ask what you believe? What scientific method do you have to disprove what I am saying? It may be that I have the burden of proof on my shoulders but so do you if you are going to say that I am wrong for one thing and then fail to do exactly the same thing yourself.

reply to post by miniatus


You would be correct. I would not like to make any claim on who or what god or the creator is.

reply to post by _BoneZ_


ok the title could do with a bit of work

maybe i could have said

"undeniable logic that may prove that god created the universe and is at least more plausible than the dna soupy thing"

i was simply trying to set out my stall to have the argument knocked down if possible. I am still going through the thread but it certainly cant be disproved so far.

reply to post by Revolution9


I could not agree with you more but I think many of these points lie outside the thread.

I will though say one thing.

In life there is infinite diversity. Science tiptoes through this subjectivity until it finds something hard to stand on. Sometime this ends in bad science where things are assumed and factors missed. Science is real and admirable but it should realise that it comes after creation not before or during.