Undeniable logic proving that god created the universe.

reply to post by miniatus


Ok I see your point. I know of nothing that was not created by a living entity.

This has been debated toooo many times on ATS. Terrible OP too. Im outa here.

Cedik
reply to post by Ph03n1x

 

What information do you need? The evidence surrounds us all. It is a simple notion.

Life begets life, therefore the universe and all things within it were created. Not a random porridge of gunk that suddenly gets a pulse.

Okay so you are basically taking what is in the book of genesis and passing it off as your own... Thanks for clearing that up....

You seem to be hostile to those who don't share you views so i will take that as my que to leave as i come here to discuss not to be preached to ...

greavsie1971

I have to say the 'cosmic soup' idea is pretty un-plausible. DNA itself is far too complicated for that. You say this has been proven to be possible? By who? I have never heard of anyone creating intelligent organisms from chemical reactions. .

No-one could replicate billions of years of evolution in the time humans have been on this earth, that's not at all what I said.. they tested the theory by combining the basic elements of life and replicating the environment.. I am trying to find the documentary where I saw it.

Curious what you say it's not plausible however? it's generally accepted in the science community, it can't be fact because we weren't there to observe it .. but the theory being floated in this thread isn't undeniable proof of anything either.

If I can find that documentary I'll post info.. still looking

Cedik
reply to post by miniatus

 

Ok I see your point. I know of nothing that was not created by a living entity.

Therefore... it's not undeniable logic.

Thank you .. that was my only issue with this thread

reply to post by Cedik


on that note, I'm making my exit.. unless I find the documentary, I'm leaving the thread.

The following are claims made by one/same, God, distict from all other claiment gods.

1.
I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

2.
I call heaven and earth
to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.

3.
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

So just being curious id start with this God, well at least thats what is written.
oh ya this as well,,,And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am

reply to post by miniatus


But that's how Creation science works. You don't actually have prove your theory. You just have to make unfounded statements and then point out flaws in the opposing theory and that somehow proves your own theory. It doesn't matter if that's not how the scientific method works.

Undeniable logic proving that god created the universe

So when are you going to post this logic?

The kind that will make every person who reads it go "aaaaaah..."

Xcalibur254
reply to post by miniatus

 

But that's how Creation science works. You don't actually have prove your theory. You just have to make unfounded statements and then point out flaws in the opposing theory and that somehow proves your own theory. It doesn't matter if that's not how the scientific method works.

No, that's not it at all .. creation science actually attempts to test it's theories.. which comes back to the documentary I'm still looking for..

Religion tends to be the side that makes statements without even attempting to prove it.. in the name of faith.

Essentially this topic has no end-game .. it can't be won by either side necessarily, but science at least is gradually eroding the opposition.. the catholic church at least now accepts that evolution is compatible with religion .. even though many christians still disagree..

I don't usually participate in threads like this because I know it's something that has no end.. but I challenged the op's "undeniable logic" position.. and I have to say, the op is NOT claiming a deity created us.. the op suggested that a living entity created us .. I don't think the op was positioning this as a religious discussion at all.. for all we know the op could be suggesting that us humans are a science experiment, existing in a beaker by some higher entity =)

The op put "god" in quotes at one point, that's why I'm not approaching this from a religious stand point, I think the term was symbolic.. the op can correct me if I'm wrong.

miniatus
essentially we're the result of a chemical reaction

That's if you don't believe in the bible, regardless if you believe in a "god" or not. The bible says that modern humans were created in the likeness and image of our creators. Whether those creators are intelligent beings from another planet can be debated.

However, Jesus did say that his kingdom is not of this world, but another place. That's pretty much an admission.




reply to post by Cedik

All I have to say is "wow". You make a thread claiming "undeniable logic proving" and then only type four sentences with nothing in those sentences that includes undeniable logic. Then you offer to explain in more detail if anyone wishes.

Are you serious? You should've explained in more detail in your opening post! That's what the opening post is there for. To explain your "undeniable logic".

reply to post by Cedik


I am just watching "The Singularity Is Near" film.

The Singularity Is Near Movie Homepage

It is worth watching. It is about the development and evolution of artificial, man made intelligence.Think how all our combined intelligence, active on this level for many thousands of years of experience based learning, cannot even manufacture a plant from this cosmic soup that people keep referring to.

Does this not tell you something? Only consciousness and intelligence can design "something".

I am sorry, but I don't agree that a meteor can create life. All of our applied intelligence the world over cannot make a plant even from this cosmic soup. The Creator, The Architect, The Artist, The Scientist set this all in motion. Of that I am sure.

I cannot prove this in Science, but I prove it to myself just by looking at Creation.

The further we are venturing out, taking us further from the source of our original state the more problems we have.

In my home I sit alone. I am socially isolated. I have all the gadgets and tech at my disposal. Does this bring me fulfilment and happiness? No it does not.

I would much rather be in an uncomplicated and loving relationship with all the trappings of family and trustworthy and loyal friends. I cannot buy that, no matter how much money I have. I find that the society I live in has no respect for these values like it used to.

Of course my own stance on this is losing ground and being replaced by this Brave New World that is filling up everyone's heads. The idea of me refusing to acknowledge The One who created all this is like being a child without any parents.

The meaning of worship is this:

"The feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity."

Interesting that Jesus said that we should love GOD with all our being. That is worship. Worship is not about bending before some guy or some idol.

If we love The One who made all this then we will also love all that The Creator made.

No one will ever convince me that all this just formed out of some primeval goo. Nope! A Divine Scientist made all this from intelligent design. The further we drift from that blue print the worse we will make things for ourselves, emotionally.

We make some awful messes like continued genocide on a mass scale, horrific nuclear accidents, violent societies. Does that not also reveal that we are not able to get it right on our own.

We are being taught a lesson as creatures. We can curse The Creator, we can try and forget He even exists. However, that will not help us to break out of our exile.

The only way to break this exile is to look for The Creator and love Him. Blessings come from that. Not the blessings of riches and worldly happiness, but real blessing where it matters - in our eternal souls.

I'd rather be this and say all these human things than be an individual who can only say that he or she has goo for a parent and looks at his or herself as merely a finite biological machine who will pass away into oblivion and no longer have consciousness.

Tell me, which scenario I have portrayed above is the more sentient? Meaning that sentience is what makes us human (conscious beings with emotions and not just biological machines).

Humans will never be able to make a soul, no matter how hard they try. Whatever we make with our own hands will never be able to duplicate real free will and consciousness. Sorry, my Scientist friends, but you will never convince me that I am just a biological machine because I KNOW I am not just that. I am a Spirit residing in this current matter and frequency of existence. I am ANIMATED. I AM.

I would much rather believe that a Great Cosmic Creator made me than I would a lump of rock or some chemical goo. It's much more glorious and sets my imagination on fire with wonder. The other is a bit of a party pooper.

So who made god?

One of the following propositions must be true if god exists and we follow your line of reasoning.

1. God is a life form, therefore god requires a creator if life can only come from life, therefore "god" is not "god" if there are higher powers beyond it, ad infinitum.

2. God is not a life form, and can create life, therefore life can come from non life, therefore there is no reason to have god in the equation.

Get logic'd sonnnnnnn

reply to post by paradox


Its said that he has always been. But if you have to have a reason maybe God came about spontaniously liek life on this planet came about

reply to post by Cedik


2 word refutation of your logic. emergence property

yuppa
reply to post by paradox

 

Its said that he has always been. But if you have to have a reason maybe God came about spontaniously liek life on this planet came about

If you are admitting life can spontaneously emerge, then there is no need for a god. If "god" has "always been," then what reason can the universe just not have always been?

reply to post by Revolution9


Just another example here.

Recently I had a psychosis episode. I used too much of a naughty substance and tripped myself out for an extended period of time. I behaved very differently and I perceived reality on a slightly different level. I was not functioning as well in terms of self preservation. However, in myself I was still exactly the same spirit.

Once my physical brain was working better again I was able to express myself and channel my spirit much more effectively. Whatever happens to my physical brain does not change my spirit.

That is why I know that people with Alzheimer's are still very much "in there". They are just spirits who can no longer be properly expressed because of damage to the physical body which is the vehicle by which they navigate this dimension.

The physical body perishes, but I believe the soul just gets freed and waits for re-animation when the new frequency is programmed into the physical universe.

Revelations is fascinating to read. At the close it describes what is like a mighty good futuristic plot where the old earth and even the old Heaven are replaced with a new Heaven and a New Earth. Then a gigantic crystal space ship called Jerusalem descends and The Creator will live in it. His light will replace the very light of the sun. Every soul will be resurrected. The key will be The Son of Man. If we will live under His rulership we will all be allowed in His Kingdom. If we do not then it says we will be very annoyed with ourselves for making a bad decision. Those who dwell outside will be outside for eternity because it sounds to me like the gates will close.

Not bad for a two thousand year old vision.

Cedik
HI all.

It is impossible to create anything in this world/dimension without life itself being ther creator.

'God' in this is basically unknown but there all the same.

I can explain in more detail if anyone wishes.

Explain it in more detail, please.

For I want to understand this 'logic' you use to believe in this 'god' you so need..

Cedik
reply to post by skcussta

 

which part?

The Undeniable logic part.
The Proving part.
The God part.
and the Creation requiring all of the above, part.

reply to post by paradox


first u must answer biologically speaking, as simple as "which came first ,"the chicken or the egg" and if the answer is the Roster, then from whence did said Roster appear?