Richard Dawkins defends pedophila

reply to post by Prezbo369


please sit down before reading this



























there are 1 billion hindus - who believe in a pantheon of non Christian " gods "

Christianity and atheism are not the only choices

Prezbo369

Tardacus
Disclaimer: (I`m not a christian or an atheist)

Impossible

You either believe there's a God, or you don't

Don't be scared to have an opinion.

Or you can just admit you do not know....agnostic people are this. (and the truth is we all are agnostic because we simple do not know one way or the other).

Personally I think If there is a God we do not have the capabilities mentally to understand him/it/her and Religion is another mans failed attempt at understanding it all.

My tip ignore everything what people say and look into your heart and make your own spiritual belief up using what you know in your heart, I have and my God is called Bod.

Book Of Bod chapter 2 verse 6

"And behold Boymonkey looked up and saw Bod and Bod saw Boymonkey and sang his tune"

reply to post by windword

Because an atheist has snapped out of their brainwashed trance, thrown off indoctrination and has refused to be a victim of pathological guilt and shame.

It is no biggie for someone to make a choice, as a grown adult, to stop believing in things that were taught to him as a child, right?

You either continue believing or you don't, right?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Believing isn't a choice, it's an intellectual process of acceptance and elimination. One can't choose to believe something that contradicts their sensibilities. However, I do think that there a lot of Christians, probably Muslims too, who just following the motions, not to upset the apple cart, who really don't have their hearts and souls in their own family religion.

People who pretend to believe and have faith are probably the one's that God, if he exists" dislikes the most.

DigitalResonance
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Another one who totally missed the point of what richard was saying... I know he's an atheist but u don't need to exaggerate what he was saying... What he said is clear if u just read what's written and not what u want him to of said because of your distaste towards the man.

I fail to see how DeadSeraph was exaggerating by directly quoting the man :/

reply to post by LadyMachiatto



What? Read the thread headline.. How is that not exaggerating what richard Dawkins said?

reply to post by ignorant_ape


My bad I saw Christian and saw Theist, but thanks for being super helpful!

What a # show. I have to wonder to myself as I read these responses: "How many of these people have actually suffered sexual abuse as a child themselves"? I can see that one person has spoke about their own experiences and that's about it. Yet, I see so many self-righteous people not only defending the lunacy that Dawkins wrote about, but then actually dictating the healing process an adult survivor of sexual abuse should be.

Allow me to introduce myself and my own experience as a means to not only be able to relate to this topic, but provide a REAL look into it.

I grew up in Catholic home, became an atheist in my adulthood, and then became a Christian in my later adult years very recently.
I too was sexually abused as a child, which according to Dawkins, was a "just mild touching up". I was also told by my grandmother that I was going to hell, that I was damned, that I will suffer an eternity wandering in purgatory...blah blah blah.

First; I will discuss the extremist religion I grew up around, because that apparently should have screwed me right up. When I became an adult, I understandably became angry with religion. I feared it, I hated it, and it left me feeling worthless and hopeless. I didn't understand it so I threw myself into something I did understand: science. I have always excelled in my studies and sought answers and explanations from history, research, evidence and facts. I tossed the idea of a creator completely out the window and for the most part lived life quite contently. I trusted science, and still do, and figured I had the answers for everything and if I myself didn't, they could easily be found. I no longer feared for my soul, I no longer worried of sin, and I no longer prayed to a God that I had stopped believing in. But I always knew something wasn't right, something was missing. The equation was never complete and THAT bothered me. Simple things in DNA sequencing, human emotion and physical electricity was missing a vital component.
I always just chalked it up to immature research and limited resources. But it still drove me mad.

So, to make this long story shorter I began searching outside of my tried and true textbooks and accepted Jesus as my Lord and savior and have continued on my journey of learning with an open mind and seeing things a lot clearer now. (That is an even longer story)

BUT back to the point at hand: I obviously went through some BS with the religious background in Catholicism. I did my own reading, I did my own research and took it upon myself to learn about the bible, it's teachings and what other Christians have to say rather than making my own assumptions based on my opinion and lack of beliefs in a text that I had barely read myself. I was still skeptical and kept a very cautious, yet open mind.
While I do agree that the crap I went through growing up caused me some pain, it was NOTHING compared to the sexual abuse I suffered. The religious abuse I went through, I got over by EDUCATING myself. By seeking the truth on my OWN.

The sexual abuse, I did not ever really "get over" it. No one ever does. It's not something you can just get over easily. I know this not only from my own experience but from listening to the experience and trials of other survivors as well.
How many of you have done that? How many of you have actually spoken to an adult survivor of sexual abuse? And I mean REALLY talk to them. I don't mean someone saying to you "Oh yeah, I was sexually molested, but I got over it" I mean speaking to someone that you are actually close to and gain yourself some perspective on the matter?
And it IS a matter. I am absolutely disgusted and disturbed at what Dawkins has written here. To say that pedophilia is blown out of proportion is absurd. Pedophilia should NEVER be taken lightly, so to say that it is being blown out proportion is just downplaying to very real and traumatizing effects that a victim of sexual abuse goes through. Especially a child. It's confusing, scary, damaging and violating. It's not something that one is able to dust off their shoulder like getting your bike stolen or your glasses stepped on.

What I find even more disturbing is the psychologist Richard Dawkins mentions who has apparently found that a lot of victims' minds are so powerful that they are able to completely construct and experience sexual abuse memories. What an excellent way to discredit sexual abuse victims even more. I have to recall on a very recent case in Iowa in which a judge was originally seeking 17 years for the conviction of a pastor who RAPED several children in an effort to "cure" their homosexuality. Where exactly is the justice? Who are we protecting here? It's not at all accurate or fair to say that in this day and age we are less tolerant of sexual abuse of children than in the past. I don't see how you can even come up with such a barbaric thought. As if innocent children of the past are any less deserving of protection than the children of today.

And in regards to the child brides in Yemen, not too many people say "Oh well, it's their culture let's just leave it alone" If you had actually bothered to look into the situation, the red tape involved and the groups fighting for these children , than you would know that there are thousands upon thousands of people who have a heart and sound mind that are fighting for these children. Do some damn research.

In conclusion, coming from someone who has actually experienced the situations at hand: Yes, I got over the religious abuse quite easily once I decided to take my own understanding and knowledge into my own hands, and NO I didn't get over the sexual abuse I suffered as a child no matter how "trivial' the "mild fondling" was and is to some sickos such as Dawkins feel are. The only experience in which I required therapy was from the sexual abuse. That is something NO child should have to endure and it disgusts me to the CORE that there are some people who are downplaying child molestation.

Take it from a real survivor: we're challenged and mocked enough as it is, we don't need our experiences minimized and justified anymore than it already has been.

DigitalResonance
reply to post by LadyMachiatto

 

What? Read the thread headline.. How is that not exaggerating what richard Dawkins said?

By implying that pedophilia is "being blown out of proportion" and is nothing more "than mild fondling", is somewhat defending pedophilia....I'm sorry, have you actually read the article?

reply to post by boymonkey74


You seem to think that atheists claim to know absolutely that there's no god.

While it may be correct for certain unstable individual atheists (nostic atheists), an atheist merely rejects the claims made by theists, nothing more nothing less.

I am actually quite curious to know how differently this post would carry out had it been the Pope who was minimizing child sexual abuse....

reply to post by LadyMachiatto


Geez!

Dawkins was, in NO way, minimizing sexual abuse. He was describing his own experience, of being fondled, and relaying that experience and that of another person, that he knew, and comparing that with the trauma of be taught that people whom one loves, or oneself, will burn in hell forever.

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

reply to post by windword


I am growing increasingly concerned with the complete lack of reading comprehension of those in this thread.

reply to post by LadyMachiatto


Please, quote for me the most offensive thing that Dawkins said, in this article, that has your knickers in such a bunch.

reply to post by windword

Believing isn't a choice, it's an intellectual process of acceptance and elimination. One can't choose to believe something that contradicts their sensibilities.

Well, apparently some people believe that a religious upbringing is worse than abuse... despite knowing that abuse is one of the worst you can do to a child.

How... just how is being told a few religious stories as a kid WORSE than being abused? Its a simple question I'd like the answer to.

A Priest/Imam/Rabbi who says "being raised by atheist parents is worse than abuse" would only be speaking out of an irrational loathing of atheists. Dawkins has also approached the issue with an equally irrational loathing of theists, thereby ceasing to make any sense whatsoever.

windword
reply to post by LadyMachiatto

 

Please, quote for me the most offensive thing that Dawkins said, in this article, that has your knickers in such a bunch.

even as the victim of one of them (an embarrassing but otherwise harmless experience).

I fail to see how any abuse of any sort is "harmless".

Thank goodness, I have never personally experienced what it is like to believe – really and truly and deeply believe ­– in hell. But I think it can be plausibly argued that such a deeply held belief might cause a child more long-lasting mental trauma than the temporary embarrassment of mild physical abuse.

Again, when is abuse ever "mild"?

I suspect that research would show belief in hell to be more traumatic than the sort of mild feeling-up that I suffered.

Personally, and speaking from experience from both sides, I would take devil tales over the abuse I suffered as child ANY day.

What has my knickers in such a bunch right now is the very real fact that many victims of abuse are frightened for many different reasons to come forward. The vast majority of sexual abuse victims don't even come forward until years later. And is it any wonder why, when you have such barbaric opinions like the ones I've read here that minimize the abuse by actually calling it "mild" or "harmless". I myself as a survivor of abuse would never refer to what I went through as a child "harmless".

Richard Dawkins is ridiculous and I don't believe he is athiest at all considering some of the things he say's. He shows an active hatred for God in my opinion. Anyways I understand that some people do cause damage with the hell concept but I propose that most of the damage is the "victims" fault. Just like if I tell you you will go to prison if you murder somebody I am not causing you trauma I am just stating a fact. If you are traumatized it pretty much means you have, or may murder someone because there is nothing to fear if you do not murder. Richard simply wanted to remain in his favorite sins so he convinced himself there is no God
I saw that the OP thinks that abuse is rampant in the Catholic Church. I get upset at such ignorance. Statistically a Catholic priest is less likely to molest a child than any other group of people on earth. If you take a large group of any men, be it fathers, teachers, coaches, protestant ministers, etc you will find about 4% are sexual predators. About 1% of Catholic priests have even been accused and the fact that most of these accusations are against dead priests tells me some are lying for money. Now that "protecting Gods children" classes are mandatory for anyone working with children in a catholic institution the problem has shrunk to about 5 cases a year(out of 70,000,000 people) over the last 20 years.
Anyways what do we expect from somebody who claims not to believe in God? He is not defending pedophiles at all he is just pointing out how much he hates God.

reply to post by ccross


He can not hate something he does not believe in, he is pointing out the stupidity of religion mostly and that it is holding us back as a specie.
You may be religious but that means you accept slavery and welcome it, Iam not an atheist but Iam not religious...good to know more people are getting educated and rejecting religion....I give it 4 generations and we will all be free from its chains.
I think teaching kids religion is also child abuse and should be seen that way.

I wish he'd give the old religion-bashing a rest.

Not because I'm religious - I probably have very similar views to RD on the nature of reality, but there's just something a bit nuts about the way he goes on.

What he fails to grasp is that, while the great majority of people are brought up in a religious faith, and most will keep to that faith through their lives, we all tend to apply our own reasoning and morality in everyday matters. Our religion - if we don't choose to ditch it - is like an added extra in our lives, like fire insurance.

The logical thing to do would be to lose this useless appendage, but most people don't, and it doesn't seem to cause many problems.

It's the radical preachers who are a concern, and the minority of believers who internalise their propaganda.

All religions are mythologies, they are false, and they stand to cause great harm if people internalise and act upon their false teachings.

Fortunately, most people don't.

DeadSeraph
Atheists, here is your champion.

What an idiotic thing to say.

I stopped reading anything you said as soon as I noticed this.

Pathetic.

and the guy is a moron for whatever he infers.

typical. dog and bone stupidity.