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The Nature of Sin.

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posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 07:58 PM
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3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by guitarplayer
 


The entire bible is not a lie, but most is. There is truth in it, but it is buried underneath a mountain of lies. Jesus' words are truth, Paul's are not. Jesus was speaking of all of us when he spoke of himself. He was pointing out what we all are, not just him.

Just because I don't believe in your version of god does not mean I don't believe in God. I am not an atheist, I know there is a God, but he is not in the bible, at least not fully.

I don't understand why you think me not believing in your god means I am prideful. I have discernment, Christians don't. I don't see how that is any more prideful than Christians believing they are the only ones with discernment. Believing everything in the bible is true and without error is the opposite of discernment.
edit on 12-9-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


I think your prideful because as you say the bible if full of lies but you have figured out the lies from the truth. You of all people proclaim that Paul is a liar and that everything he spoke is lies. If this is the case why would people die for this lie? Why would people be burned at the stake for a lie? Why did the disciples (except John) all die for this lie? Have you ever read Fox’s book of the martyrs? It is full of people who died because they would not renounce God and Jesus. Do people willing die for a lie? On what bases do you distinguish the truth from the lies? The bible says that discernment comes from the Holy Spirit not from human reasoning’s.




posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by guitarplayer
 


Human reasoning is one aspect of the Holy Spirit believe it or not. Reason is a God-given part of human understanding, so we should use it.

Of course people would die for a lie. You believe the Quran is a lie don't you? So why would Muslims go out and die for it? Because they believe it's true even though it isn't. Why would it be different for the bible or Christianity?

How do we even know the people who were said to be killed were killed at all? How do we know they didn't distort the true message then turn around and invent a story of martyrdom as a sympathy card while they lived the rest of their lives fat and happy, supposedly dead?

Paper isn't a very good medium for preserving truth because it can be changed over time with copies and interpolation. The bible is no exception to this, especially since Rome is the one who had control over these papers, and they were one of, if not THE most corrupt empires in history. What makes you think they would have all of a sudden started telling the truth after getting so far with lies? You are ignoring Rome's history if you think they would have put the ultimate truth out there for anyone to see and know.


edit on 12-9-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 10:08 PM
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3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by guitarplayer
 


Human reasoning is one aspect of the Holy Spirit believe it or not. Reason is a God-given part of human understanding, so we should use it.

Of course people would die for a lie. You believe the Quran is a lie don't you? So why would Muslims go out and die for it? Because they believe it's true even though it isn't. Why would it be different for the bible or Christianity?

How do we even know the people who were said to be killed were killed at all? How do we know they didn't distort the true message then turn around and invent a story of martyrdom as a sympathy card while they lived the rest of their lives fat and happy, supposedly dead?

Paper isn't a very good medium for preserving truth because it can be changed over time with copies and interpolation. The bible is no exception to this, especially since Rome is the one who had control over these papers, and they were one of, if not THE most corrupt empires in history. What makes you think they would have all of a sudden started telling the truth after getting so far with lies? You are ignoring Rome's history if you think they would have put the ultimate truth out there for anyone to see and know.


edit on 12-9-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


Please show me where human reasoning is a gift of the Holy Spirit. I take it that you beleive that everyone has the Holy Spirit ? If not how does one get the mystical Holy Spirit?



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by guitarplayer
 


Show me where it isn't. Are you saying that you must ignore reason and logic to know the truth? If that's the case, your truth can't be truth at all.

Everyone has the Spirit, but not all of them are Holy. Having the Holy Spirit is realizing that everyone has the Spirit of God within them. Even your god says he creates both good and evil, so even "evil" spirits are part of God.

Do you really believe a corrupt empire such as Rome would all of a sudden start telling the truth after getting so big from lying and deceiving? They conquered and grew for a thousand years while worshiping false pagan gods, why would they all of a sudden start telling everyone the truth?



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 11:31 PM
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3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by guitarplayer
 


Show me where it isn't. Are you saying that you must ignore reason and logic to know the truth? If that's the case, your truth can't be truth at all.

Everyone has the Spirit, but not all of them are Holy. Having the Holy Spirit is realizing that everyone has the Spirit of God within them. Even your god says he creates both good and evil, so even "evil" spirits are part of God.

Do you really believe a corrupt empire such as Rome would all of a sudden start telling the truth after getting so big from lying and deceiving? They conquered and grew for a thousand years while worshiping false pagan gods, why would they all of a sudden start telling everyone the truth?


Please show me where everyone has the Spirit. The Spirit was only given after Christ ascension. The bible is full of admonitions that our own wisdom is but folly to God. The bible even says that a fool is wise in his own eyes.

Your own earthly wisdom has lead you away from God into a place where you confess that you use to be a Christian. Read all the warning of the wayward backslidden servants in the Gospels and see where they end up.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by guitarplayer
 




Please show me where everyone has the Spirit. The Spirit was only given after Christ ascension.



Psalms 139

Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,
And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand shall lead me,
And Your right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall fall on me,”
Even the night shall be light about me;
12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You,
But the night shines as the day;
The darkness and the light are both alike to You.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by guitarplayer
 


Look at anyone who is alive, that's your proof that everyone has the Spirit. God is God of the living, the one who was, is, and is to come. God is life itself. All those qualities of God can be attributed to life. Life was, still is, and will continue to be, even after you or me die. Life is the God of the living. The light of God is consciousness, the Spirit is what animates us and gives us life. God is I AM, and so is consciousness, the thing that is, was, and will be.

You believe you are wise by believing what corrupt men put together and have taught, the bible. Your wisdom is actually foolishness and blindness. I don't mean to offend you, just speaking my mind.

What makes you think an empire that thrived on deception for a thousand years would all of a sudden tell the truth with the bible? Why is Christianity the most popular religion in the world when this world is so full of lies? Why would those who have run this corrupt world for thousands of years let the truth spread like you believe it has with the bible?
edit on 12-9-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-9-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2013 @ 12:24 AM
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windword
reply to post by guitarplayer
 




Please show me where everyone has the Spirit. The Spirit was only given after Christ ascension.



Psalms 139

Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,
And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand shall lead me,
And Your right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall fall on me,”
Even the night shall be light about me;
12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You,
But the night shines as the day;
The darkness and the light are both alike to You.


OK? You have shown that David said that God's Spirit was everywhere. He did not say that God's Spirit was in everyone.



posted on Sep, 13 2013 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by guitarplayer
 


So it was everywhere except for in David? Okay, keep telling yourself that.



posted on Sep, 13 2013 @ 12:29 AM
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3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by guitarplayer
 


Look at anyone who is alive, that's your proof that everyone has the Spirit. God is God of the living, the one who was, is, and is to come. God is life itself. All those qualities of God can be attributed to life. Life was, still is, and will continue to be, even after you or me die. Life is the God of the living. The light of God is consciousness, the Spirit is what animates us and gives us life. God is I AM, and so is consciousness, the thing that is, was, and will be.

You believe you are wise by believing what corrupt men put together and have taught, the bible. Your wisdom is actually foolishness and blindness. I don't mean to offend you, just speaking my mind.

What makes you think an empire that thrived on deception for a thousand years would all of a sudden tell the truth with the bible? Why is Christianity the most popular religion in the world when this world is so full of lies? Why would those who have run this corrupt world for thousands of years let the truth spread like you believe it has with the bible?
edit on 12-9-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-9-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


You have clearly drank of other philosphies. And have poluted the pure word of God. One day we shall all stand before God and give an account of our lives. By your standard all roads lead to God which is what the bible does not teach. Were you raised Catholic by chance?



posted on Sep, 13 2013 @ 12:43 AM
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reply to post by guitarplayer
 


The bible is far from being pure. If it were pure, there wouldn't be thousands of different interpretations for it, there would only be one. I haven't polluted anything, it was polluted to begin with.

I was raised Methodist and Baptist.



posted on Sep, 13 2013 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by guitarplayer
 


When did God withdraw his spirit from mankind?



posted on Sep, 13 2013 @ 02:28 AM
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reply to post by guitarplayer
 



guitarplayer
You have clearly drank of other philosphies. And have poluted the pure word of God.


The pure word of God has over 3,036 textual variations from it's oldest bible we know of (Codex Sinaiticus) from the bibles used today.

By the way, Catholics don't teach that all roads lead to god, they teach that Jesus Christ died on the cross for the sins of the world - and to believe that this is true may grant you god's grace to go to heaven.



posted on Sep, 13 2013 @ 05:30 AM
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reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 
You seem to be arbitrarily making claims without any real support from the Bible for them.

If we are not perfect as God is perfect we have missed the mark.
The statement about "perfection" in the quote of Jesus is not somehow proof that no one can be perfect because he is telling them to be perfect.
Also in Matthew 19:21 Jesus tells someone what to do to be perfect.

The penalty for all sin is a penalty we cannot pay. The life of a sinless person.
There is nowhere in the Bible that says there is a "payment" for sin, much less specifying what that payment might be.

The consequence never changes.
You seem to be saying by the context that we all are always bound for nothing but death and hell. That can not be the case, otherwise what would be the point of us being here talking about sin?
God is capable of saving us from the fate of death and hell, and He does it through Jesus who He has made Lord over us, and he is a good master who leads us into righteousness.
edit on 13-9-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2013 @ 05:56 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 

. . . they teach that Jesus Christ died on the cross for the sins of the world - and to believe that this is true may grant you god's grace to go to heaven.
If they do, then they don't have the Bible to support that theory.
The verse closest to saying anything like that,

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of* the whole world.
(King James Bible) * italicized words added in the translation not found in the Greek

says that the person, Jesus, is himself the thing that makes us presentable, as the people of this world, to God.
It is not his death that does that, but his life in obedience to God, that included his dying as part of what was necessary, considering the circumstances, to be completely righteous.
edit on 13-9-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2013 @ 11:44 AM
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Why is sin a bad thing?



posted on Sep, 13 2013 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Because the bible says so... duh

LMAO!



posted on Sep, 13 2013 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


I was looking for a more insightful answer.



posted on Sep, 13 2013 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


I was being a sarcastic fundy


How about this... because the bible says so... and so does the church




posted on Sep, 13 2013 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

Why is sin a bad thing?

Because the definition of a sin is, "a bad thing".
You need to come up with another term if you want to talk about something that is not bad.

You should read Isaiah 53, the "Suffering Servant" passage, to see what sin means, it means being left out when the benefits are being handed out.
You have the subject of the story being a decent person who for some reason of injustice is counted as being among the sinners, so being deprived of the rewards of the righteous.



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