A Lesson on Telling Lies

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posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by IraLevant
 

Awesome. The first step towards fixing a problem is to admit that you have one.
I"m glad to hear that you are working on this. You have been hurting others and
hurting yourself. Now the healing can start .... it's never too late.




posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



FF,

I think in today's ego-centric society lies are just as subjective as the truth, hence my user name "RealTruth".

It was actually chosen out of complete sarcasm, because in this world we live the "Realtruth" seems to be very subjective to each situation because of ego's.

Should we tell lie's, or should we tell the truth? hmmmm

Sometimes things are better left unsaid, and other's the truth is needed.

Peace out,

RT
edit on 12-9-2013 by Realtruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 

Bah.

I'm a lousy liar. I thought this thread would teach me how to do it better.

Want my money back.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 03:38 PM
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People lie when they say they don't lie. The average person lies several times a day.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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NiNjABackflip
People lie when they say they don't lie. The average person lies several times a day.


I challenge your theory. I believe that 'unconscious' people lie absent-mindedly...however....if you are consciously aware of what you are saying, you can choose NOT to lie.
But that's just my opinion...
jacygirl



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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Astyanax
I'm a lousy liar. I thought this thread would teach me how to do it better.

Oh gosh .. that's funny! The only advice I can give you for being a better liar is to turn off your guilt. Become pathological (I don't know if you can will it to happen ... I suppose you could). But really, why become a better liar when that hurts yourself beyond belief???



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 03:45 PM
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why lie the only person you are really deceiving is yourself at the end of the day



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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I notice alot of guys exaggerate, and proclaim they've done everything to one up their buddies. That is most I've experienced being around liers, except for the few that stole from us when we trying to help them, who had bad black market habits. They will lie and sell out their own mother for their problems, but they still need help.

Now, lies in themselves stop communication and your own conscience should feel really troubled by all imperfections.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by jacygirl
 


If someone asks for your opinion on how they are dressed, and you don't like the way they look, what would your reply to them be?



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by NiNjABackflip
 


Everyone who knows me, knows I will be honest.
I won't say something looks good on someone if it doesn't...but I'm tactful, and make suggestions.
However, sometimes I just choose not to express my opinion, which isn't the same as lying.
If someone is obviously very happy with a new haircut (for example)...then I may reply that I'm happy they're happy. No lie.


jacygirl



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by jacygirl
 





I won't say something looks good on someone if it doesn't...but I'm tactful, and make suggestions.
However, sometimes I just choose not to express my opinion, which isn't the same as lying.


I think half-truths and lying by omission is considered forms of deception.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 04:50 PM
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Mark Twain had an excellent quote about lies and truth.


"If you always tell the truth, you never have to remember anything"-Mark twain
It is totally true.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 04:57 PM
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NiNjABackflip
If someone asks for your opinion on how they are dressed, and you don't like the way they look, what would your reply to them be?

If they ask for my opinion then they'll get my opinion. If they didn't want to hear something negative, then they shouldn't have taken the chance and asked me what I thought.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 07:22 PM
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Hello All,

I believe lies are a fear based derivative. My opinion is that lying is used as a tool or response to what I view as humanity's biggest disease - insecurity. Insecurity causes us not only to tell lies, but also makes us susceptible to believing them, when of course that is what we need to hear.

Someone who asks another if their hair is okay, or their butt is too big likely already knows the answer, and is asking you to lie to them to make them feel better. Growing up, I always made friends with people who were older than me. As a young boy feeling the need to compete with those who had cars, women, money, and were able to shave first, I had lied often, and thought about lying even more so. Always a thinker, at a young age I was fortunate enough to realize that I was building a totally "false me", and although I had a good enough memory to cover whatever lie I may have told, the guilt piled up.

I had decided personally declare myself diseased. Diagnosis; Insecurity. Many of us allow it to flourish so early in our lives, unable to recognize it as an emotional and mental cancer. Our surroundings often feed it well, usually others who are already "false people" in your home, at your school, at your job etc. It could be your parent (either one or both), siblings, family, friends, commercials, the media, or many other influences.

My experience has guided me to the thought that maybe, the key to life, is to rid myself of insecurity. Sure enough, in any aspect of my life where I have been able to utterly destroy insecurity, my life has improved, and most importantly, even the slightest urge to lie is non-existent.

I have grown to be more curious and contemplative, and also have learned to focus on the real importance of life. My compassion has grown, my ability and willingness to help others has increased exponentially, and I have expanded my worldview. I attribute this all to the personal discovery that lies are a symptom, and I need to find and treat the disease; fear.

Alas, I am still on my quest! My biggest fears right now are fear of failure (financially...what a pity), and an occasional insecurity that I am not "strong enough" to have my wife's total faith in me (in life, not sexually...I am a beast in bed!)***. I also become insecure about my lack of education. Particularly when I am the only non-PhD or at least Masters degree holder in the room (also a pity), at events that i never would have been able to attend in the first place if I had not realized as a teenager that i was so darn insecure! Even with these last fronts in my personal internal war on my "cancer", I barely ever am overcome by the urge to lie, and if I am and give in, i am disappointed in myself for weeks on end.

I believe that there is no situation where confident statements, simple silence, or a diplomatic deflection of a question would not replace a lie. There is no need to be cold or confrontational, or worse - fearful that you are about to speak the truth. My favorite of the Delphic Maxims of "Know thyself.", and I believe if we follow that simple statement we can realize our own insecurities and how to abolish them.

Nice post OP - I would star and flag you if I knew how to do that. I will learn and get back to you.

*** - caught myself making an insecure statement, subconsciously worried that all of you readers that I do not know may think that I am sexually inadequate. Rather than delete the phrase, I left it in to prove my work in progress!



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 08:02 PM
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Okay....Starring was easy enough...as promised OP



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


S&F

Truth is the foundation of all good and righteous character.

One who lies in the small things can not be trusted in the bigger things.

One who lies in his heart will betray and corrupt all.

One who is dishonest in Word by lies, exaggerations, and embellishments are like the annoyance of a barking dog who alarms at the blowing wind.

One who is not aware of their own lying is the worst of all! For they do not realize that they lie compulsory, and thus live in delusion and fantasy far far from the Truth of reality.

No sincere virtue can exist without Truth, for Truth is the Light that illuminates all. Nothing good can be expected from a liar.

Be true to your self and let your words always remain True.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 10:03 PM
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FlyersFan

Ambalatthika-rahulovada Sutta: Instructions to Rahula at Mango Stone (BUDDHIST) on telling lies


At that time Ven. Rahula was staying at the Mango Stone. Then the Blessed One, arising from his seclusion in the late afternoon, went to where Ven. Rahula was staying at the Mango Stone. Ven. Rahula saw him coming from afar and, on seeing him, set out a seat & water for washing the feet. The Blessed One sat down on the seat set out and, having sat down, washed his feet. Ven. Rahula, bowing down to the Blessed One, sat to one side.



I will let the scripture speak for itself.

Your commentary goes quite beyond the quote however. Having studied some buddist teachings and practised differing devotions consistently, I would like to comment. Before I do, it is important to state, I am not a practicioner in any specific lineage nor am I qualified to comment on any buddist scripture by any lineage and what I state is mearly personal interpretation and experience.






According to this teaching - a person who lies will not stop with 'just' lies. There is nothing that person will not do. A liar is more evil than we think. When asking people what is the worst thing a person can do, we don't usually think of telling lies or deceiving others. We usually think of murder or adultery, etc. But according to Buddhist teaching, a person who will lie will stop at nothing and the other evils will come.



This teaching says nothing about other actions at all. It speaks only of lieing and how unskillful and/or unproductive lying is. Period. Nothing else. You are adding something that isn't there (exxageration is a form of lying).


Buddism speak to oneself, one;s own mind, one's own ego - not other peoples.





Those telling lies because of their own agenda can change the situation in favor of their desires. But that new reality is based on falsehoods. The bible says that a house built on sand can not stand and that is what happens when people build on lies. The foundation is weak and will eventually crumble and fall when the lies are exposed. No matter what people think about the bible, that's a good teaching about what happens when you try to build on lies.



Again, scripture speak's to the self - and how to conduct the self - in the privacy of one's own mind




Some people tell lies about other people in order to try to discredit them. Sometimes this works for a while. But when the truth comes out, the liar is the one discredited. In my own experience (some of it here at ATS), when people have lied about me and been caught at it, they refuse to apologize. They refuse to admit they told lies even in the face of the truth. The buddhist teaching on liars is true .... there is nothing that a liar won't do. When caught, they end up shaming themselves instead of the person who they tried to ruin.



Again I believe what you have perceived from this fable is in error - nowhere is it either stated or implied that "There is nothing a liar won't do". First place, we are all liars sometimes and therefore must call ourself liars. Even when you truly believe and intend to truth, one cannot be sure that we are not decieving ourselves or others. We can only be truthful to the best of our ability at any given time.




I have noticed that liars, when caught in lies, act like they haven't lied. They have no shame. They lie to cover being caught in lies. A very recent example - Obama's 'I never set a red line' lie comes to mind. He screwed up; tried to cover with a lie; showed no shame in having other politicians cover his lie with their corresponding lies - even though the entire planet knows he lied, Obama offers no apology or acknowledgement that he lied to cover. I've seen this same kind of behavior with liars in real life. No shame. No regrets. Just more lies.



Again, we are all liars at one time or another, only the buddhas can claim differently.




Some lies endure. And we can see the evil that pours off what has grown from the original lies.

Example - Lies of cult leaders the the past hundreds of years who sucked ignorant people in. Some of those cults survive and the evil that is done in the name of those cults is outrageous. That evil is the fruit of the original lies. (like the teaching said - the lie eventually leads to all evils being committed (paraphrase) )

Example - Lies of politicians and leaders around the world. What evil won't they do to uphold themselves in positions and to further their agendas? ... Putin, Obama, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Assad, Lil' Kim of N. Korea, Muslim Brotherhood leadership, Hamas, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, John McCain ... various religious leaders around the world - be they Christian or Muslim or _____ (fill in the blank), all telling lies about the other in order to keep their flocks (and the income from those flocks) ... etc etc. The fruit of their lies is more and more evil.

Sure .. sometimes people get something wrong but they were sincerely wrong. They admit it when confronted with truth. So that's not a lie. I'm talking about LIES ... agendas ... purposely misleading others.

So perhaps we should take lies more seriously. We should take the lies of Ministers and Imams and Politicians and co-Workers and neighbors and even the lies of posters here at ATS more seriously. All evil is built on the foundation of lies. And instead of saying 'oh, he's just another liar politician' and brush it off because we are jaded (I admit I'm VERY jaded), perhaps we should understand that all the evil in the world has at it's root LIES. We wonder why there is so much evil in the world. It starts with LIES. The evil is built on top of LIES. Lies in politics. Lies in religion. Lies because of jealousy, greed, corruption, agenda .... but the bottom line is LIES.

If we hold people more accountable for lies, perhaps there wouldn't be so much evil in the world today. Kill the lies .. expose them to sunlight ... drive a steak through the heart of a lie ... and the evil will be stopped before it can grow into a huge monster.


As for the rest - you ( nor I ) am qualified to comment on this scripture.

This may be how you read it today - but six months from now - you will read it differently - that is the nature of scripture (of any faith).

When you point a finger at another (liars) there are three pointing back at you.

Clear your mind and read the story again in a mindful manner, not in a manner to support any agenda. I commmend your efforts.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 10:20 PM
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FlyersFan

"Rahula, it's like a royal elephant: immense, pedigreed, accustomed to battles, its tusks like chariot poles. Having gone into battle, it uses its forefeet & hindfeet, its forequarters & hindquarters, its head & ears & tusks & tail, but keeps protecting its trunk. The elephant trainer notices that and thinks, 'This royal elephant has not given up its life to the king.' But when the royal elephant... having gone into battle, uses its forefeet & hindfeet, its forequarters & hindquarters, its head & ears & tusks & tail & his trunk, the trainer notices that and thinks, 'This royal elephant has given up its life to the king. There is nothing it will not do.'



I think you are misintrepting this passage. "..But keeps protecting its trunk." Lies to protect a core (ego). and the contemplative without shame about lieing is as this elephant. "...has not given up its life to the king..." life (life of the ego) king (truth of emptiness). ".....given up its life to the king...." There is nothing the contemplative will not do for the king (truth of emptiness).



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 11:19 PM
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I, as an individual, have always been as honest as I possibly could. That's not to say that I'll go out of my way to give up free information, but if asked directly, I'm not one to make up a lie on the spot... even though I'm very capable of doing so.

I don't like to manipulate people unless I feel they deserve it. Maybe that's just an old school way of looking at the world, but I feel that to get respect you should earn. Treat others the way you want to be treated and all that.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 11:30 PM
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i have been called a lier even today in a thread i was called much worse by somebody but what do you know 2 others came in and stated they remember it like i said .

i have the care factor of 0 so why lie about anything tell it like it is /was what have you got to lose





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