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Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven

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posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 10:11 AM
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Fromabove
So don't anyone be getting your hopes up that it's a win win situation. It's not and the Pope knows this. He just wants more Catholics in the herd and this is a tricky way to do it. He knows salvation only comes through Jesus Christ.

Kindly indicate where he says anything contrary to that.

He's not trying to "trick" anyone, and saying that atheists can still be saved by God is hardly likely to bring them into the Roman Catholic church.




posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by wrabbit2000
 


Well this is what we can expect a pope from an excommunicated order to say....

He is a false pope.

I am starting to give credence to the prophecies of St. Malachai I have heard my whole life.
If he is replaced by someone who leaves Rome in exile.....then we are really screwed.

The man has no business as "peter". Unholy Trinity he is.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 10:18 AM
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Sounds like he's the 8th Pope of scripture then.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 10:27 AM
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Deetermined
reply to post by wrabbit2000
 


I think this happened over a month ago and the RCC church was quick to come out and denounce what he said by the next day. It will be interesting to see how carefully the Pope chooses his words in future, or not.


Of course they'll denounce. A statement like this can only erode their power and influence. Even if it is true. Organized religion has f@%*-all to do with truth and everything to do with power and influence. Oh, and MONEY!



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 10:33 AM
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I like the new Pope already. I hope he really rattles some cages.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by Urantia1111
 


Tell me about it.... One of the largest Churches here is best known for it's fireworks show. That sounds neat and dandy...until you attend one to see it's basically an all day, all evening recruiting event with a strong sell throughout. $250,000 they spent on that one year..I might add...while the local Food Bank is running bare shelves. Some service to the needy, eh?

To put the cherry on the cupcake? A friend of mine had looked at joining their Church awhile back and was rejected. REJECTED... From a Church you may ask?! How?1 Well.. this one runs a credit check on all new members. It's literally a requirement of membership.

Church my butt. Many of these are nothing but Corporations with a Cross and a better public relations department. Not all, of course..but enough to leave this Bunny burned on all of it in general.
edit on 12-9-2013 by wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 10:38 AM
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I heard that this kind of statements are part of the so called "social gospel".

The social gospel emphasises doing good deeds, caring and be compassionate and so on, regardless if you are a believer or not. (The practical aspect of Christianity)

A good number of Christian denominations including fundamentalists, certain Catholics, believe that this is "wrong" and believe that the emphasis should be on the faith in god, the praying (i.e. the religious/spiritual aspect of Christianity).

I am not quite sure, as I've never had sunday school and the bit of catechism that I've had in school was of a sober protestant kind, where mostly practical values were taught and not so much the religious kind.

In my opinion, the biblical stories ( in the new Testament, anyways), boil down to:
Do good for yourself and others.
Stick to the law.
Put others before yourself.
Let others be/don't judge a book by its cover.
Show compassion.
Miracles sometimes happen due to faith and prayer.
Do and believe in (most of) these things, and you will end up in heaven.
Otherwise: The Game, you lost it.

So, I think it's quite alright that the new pope takes a practical approach. It surely will help gain more followers, as most people have become sceptic of (the existence of) divine powers it seems, but do believe in doing good.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 10:51 AM
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Yes, look at Chapter 3, 1., I. at the link you posted "the natural law."



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by IraLevant
 



In my opinion, the biblical stories ( in the new Testament, anyways), boil down to:
Do good for yourself and others.
Stick to the law.
Put others before yourself.
Let others be/don't judge a book by its cover.
Show compassion.
Miracles sometimes happen due to faith and prayer.
Do and believe in (most of) these things, and you will end up in heaven.
Otherwise: The Game, you lost it.


What about the first and great commandment?

Matthew 22:37-38

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mark 12:30

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by wrabbit2000
 


The Vatican doesn't follow the Bible very well, and this statement he says is more proof of this. Religion has no place in real Christianity. All you need the Gods word and Jesus who is "the Word" as well, no rituals and regulations will save you, only Jesus Christ.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by wrabbit2000
 


I think many scriptures have been misinterpreted, but understand your point, great topic.

I think hell is a misinterpretation.

But again if one doesn't believe in God do they expect or want to go to heaven?

I was raised on hell fire and damnation, I admit I still have a fear of it.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by Kaboose
 


I agree, there are a lot of Catholic teachings that have no bases in the Bible.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 





Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.


Absolutely, it goes against the basic teachings.

I don't know where he is coming from, but you cannot have one without the other if you take the Bible literally at its word.

edit on 113030p://bThursday2013 by stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by wrabbit2000
 


They are social clubs, but all of our inner city churches supply clothing and have food kitchens, seems the poor are better at helping the poor, I read an article once that said the poor give more.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


I like it. Never read the New Testament word for word, though, which is why I missed it.
It is an important thing in Christianity, indeed.
To me it is something unspoken, something intuitive in Christian faith, as well as something evident.
Which is why I didn't mention it. But good point, aye.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by stormdancer777
 


You bring an outstanding point to this about interpretation. I spent a bit of time talking with a dedicated Pastor I ran into through my Father before he passed on. This was a very open and kind man who was interested in answering what I had and knew my own background and Faith. He was Pentecostal, so you can imagine it was an interesting chat. lol...

The thing that relates here though is that I asked him... repeatedly..how anyone could be sure they were even reading the actual Bible anymore, vs. whatever the centuries had cobbled together and/or dropped from the book all together. I never got a real good answer because I don't believe he had one. He was head Pastor at the west coast Church he served in, too. Not a new guy to the field by any means. I guess that leaves an open issue that really can't be addressed....unless of course, the Vatican would like to make public it's own archives.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 11:18 AM
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All of these interpretations of the Bible...even from the Pope himself...

But, if you go back to the Council of Nicea, you realize that the "bible" was entirely edited by man.

Come on. I've got some Aesop's Fables for you to read when you're done with the bible...


-SN



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by stormdancer777
 



I don't know where he is coming from, but you cannot have one with out the other if you take the Bible literally at its word.


Maybe it's time for people to stop using archaic literature as a tool for dividing the masses. We have enough differences to capitalize on, the Bible doesn't need to be one of them. Quite frankly, the Bible is the most stupid and irrational of those differences. It doesn't serve any practical purposes - all it does is say, "My state of emotional security is more valid than yours because my imaginary friend said so!"

So who cares what happens to atheists when they die? It's not your business. It will never be your business. You have your own life to worry about. I appreciate the Pope's stance in the matter because he has made it very clear that he judges no one and neither should we. Isn't that good enough?
edit on 12-9-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by mikegrouchy
 




Jesus loves two peoples. Those of faith, and atheists. It's the ones waffling around in the middle who can't make up their minds that are in trouble.


What an entirely absurd idea! Jesus only loves 2 kinds of people, those who believe and those who don't believe? Those who "don't know" ie. agnostics, are in trouble? That makes no sense!

reply to post by Fromabove
 


Hold on there..... whoa....

The Pope isn't saying it right. The Bible says that if a person lives his life as one would live it as obeying the laws of God (according to his conscience as God gave to him of right and wrong), and if that person would have no knowledge of Jesus Christ, salvation, God the Father. That person shall be judged by God according to his conscience, either condemning or excusing him. Do you really....... want to take that chance with the dice. That would mean that if you know you did even one thing wrong in life, you would lose your life forever.

Secondly, if you ever heard about Jesus Christ, or about salvation at any time, things are different for you now. If you have rejected salvation, Jesus says he will deny and reject you before God. So if you know, be warned that you can't get a free ticket.


No, you hold on! Just preaching to non-believers about some supposed person of the Bible, or the exploits of some so called god, that is spoken of in ancient scriptures, does not equal non-believers now "knowing" that what you believe is true.

Even though people may hear your Bible thumping speeches, that doesn't mean that they hear Jesus knocking on the door of their hearts.

The Pope said:


: “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.


When, according to your faith, does one go to God? Well, the Christians teach that everyone will go to God when they die, for their judgement. If that is true, can anyone, who has been stripped of their body and their ego through death, and finds themselves before the "One True God" whose mercy has no limits, could be anything but contrite and sincere, at that point?

According to the Pope, and Christian teachings, that's when judgement will be dispensed, not in this life, but after. How would one possibly be capable of not believing at that point?

So, according to the Pope, believers, atheists and non believers alike, will all be judged according to their following the truth that God put in their hearts during their lifetime. So, in another words, an atheist or an agnostic will be judged according to their conscience and their works in life.



posted on Sep, 12 2013 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 





As others have stated, this statement of Pope Francis is in line with the teaching of the church, because what it teaches is that God saves you, and who he saves is up to him, it's not up to the church, it's not up to some human being, it's up to God.

What the church teaches is that God is merciful, he can save whomever he wants to save, and only those who know that Christ is their salvation and intentionally reject him will be condemned, because that's what they want.


I don't disagree with those views, maybe I didn't understand what he was saying, I need to read it again I guess.



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