Vladimir Putin Addresses America In NYT

reply to post by Indigo5


You asked for this:

Please cite an example of the US Gov. Arresting or killing Journalists...

And I answered. I never once stated that Russia was a shining example in their treatment of journalists. As someone who visited the former USSR, I have no illusions that the treatment of journalists within the former USSR has improved. As the old saying goes, old habits die hard.

Just because we merely detain our journalists for either hours, days or months, doesn't mean that we are a beacon of press freedom. We currently rank 32. That's still not good for a country that likes to advertise that we are bringing freedom to oppressed countries. A government inhibiting the press ability to report the news is a bane to democracy regardless of how it is done. It acts as a deterrent on the free exchange of information and flies in the face against what Madison intended in his decision to emphasize press freedom in the First Amendment.

I think the general populace, and to a large extent the minions in congress/senate, are being played like mad on this whole ordeal. There is not one sincere individual in all of this, IMO, including and most definitely Vladimir Putin. Not one good guy here - not one. Along with the red versus blue vitriol being the worst I've ever witnessed (it's down right scary) I believe we are all, almost willingly, going in a seriously dark direction - as if the future wasn't uncertain enough already.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


Would you prefer Putin to Obama? Or Russia to the USA?

I was responding to a poster who expressed his preference for Putin as a "real leader".

I am not speaking in absolutes...and folks that falsely claim the same for the sake of argument are simply constructing Straw Men to be knocked down.

I am not claiming the USA as a "beacon" to the world of morality or justice.

But at the same time to lionize a tyrant like Putin in the context of Pres. Obama or Russia vs. USA?

Again...on our worst day, we are better than Russia...and our most corrupt politicians are better than the average politician in Putins gov.

Not saying rah, rah USA...but simply providing some much needed context as people engage in misplaced Putin love.

reply to post by earthling42


Props to Russia for being the bigger country in this instance and trying to end this facade in a peaceful manner.

VoidHawk
What if, they're all in this together (Obama and Putin) and the world is being played!

What if, Russia and America were threatening each other! Would we all start crapping ourselves and beg our leaders to protect us?

I think its all a game.

I agree, anybody remember Obama's microphone being left on when him & Putin met?
It looks to me like there is a lot more going on [as usual] than 'They' say. The ones in control will take the actions that they have deemed necessary, regardless of 'public opinion'. I am not at all convinced that this Syria 'thing' is all about the reasons that have been stated.

Its interesting and its extremely well calibrated to chime well with americans while looking reasonable to the rest of the world.

I would have been more impressed if he had gone further and explained how its all about control of resources and the US trying to keep the gulf arabs (and hence petro dollar) in the game for a while longer.

While russia tries to promote its own hydrocarbon interests and prevent US encirclement to its south via toppling Syria and Iran.

Probably long discussions with FSB about how much truth could be put in there before the US man in the streets head explodes. I felt the appeal to god was a touch overdone but it may play well in the USA.

reply to post by Indigo5


You're the one constructing strawmen. Your first being that I was alleging that Russia's treatment of journalists was somehow superior to the US treatment of journalists when I made zero comparison between the treatment of journalists in the US and Russia. I was simply reporting that journalists have been arrested in the US.

Your exact quote from your first post to me:

So how again is Russia better than the USA? Or Putin a better leader?

Hence why I responded with:

I never once stated that Russia was a shining example in their treatment of journalists.

Your second strawman was to assume that I would prefer Putin over Obama as a leader. I also never said any such thing throughout the entirety of this thread. You accuse me of erecting straw men. You should probably look in the mirror.

Now we can argue about who is making strawmen or you can actually take the time to read what I have written at face value and without adding in things that I have not said nor would ever say in a million years. I actually hate the fact that I agree with Putin's NY Times piece because I remember very well what the KGB was like in the USSR, what "press freedom" looked like there and Putin is former KGB. Our group was followed by the KGB while in the USSR. Trust me, my worst fear is seeing that happen here.

reply to post by earthling42


About time that America gets a piece of its own cake.

reply to post by earthling42


usa president reagan worked with the russians, we ended with the reunification of germany and the lifting of the iron curtain.

can't expect much statesmanship from the washinton establisment.

internal american politics make any good solution impossible.
from cuba to the middle east, american diplomacy is based on a framework of domestic politics.

if you want a workable solution, you must come with a win win solution, that requires an intelligent process.

the russians have intelligent diplomats, it's unfortunate they are not in use more often.

i can't imagine solving the world's problems if only americans are at the thinking table.
the usa media and politics beleive that bs is the solution to every problem.
sometimes a little reality helps.

reply to post by WhiteAlice

WhiteAlice

Just because we merely detain our journalists for either hours, days or months, doesn't mean that we are a beacon of press freedom. We currently rank 32.

Where did I claim that the USA was a "beacon of press freedom"??

Or rather did I make an argument that we are better than Russia?

And if you track back the first post you responded to of mine...That post of mine was a response to a poster explaining how they "liked" Putin better than our President.

I made a case for comparison between Russia vs. USA and Putin vs. any American President..

You decided I was arguing that America was perfect...and did so for the ease of the retort to such an inaccurate and absolute premise?

citizen6511
reply to post by earthling42

 

usa president reagan worked with the russians, we ended with the reunification of germany and the lifting of the iron curtain.

Please take no offense, but you need to read more on the period...It was not the USSR that decided to tear down the wall...and Reagan was no friend to the USSR...Just the opposite.

reply to post by Indigo5


You asked the poster for information in this statement: "Please cite an example of the US Gov. Arresting or killing Journalists... "

As someone who watches press freedom and media reporting very closely throughout my lifetime (in part due to my experiences in the USSR), I had the information that you were requesting and sought to save the person time. It was you who chose to twist the fact based information that I was providing for the context of the thread in a subject that I specialize in with aspersions and straw men. You can continue to try to twist this situation but all it really takes is looking at my initial response to your request to information to comprehend that that is precisely what I was doing--no more, no less.

It takes two to derail a thread and at this point, that's what this kind of feels like. I provided the information you requested. You obviously didn't like it. I'm not going to allow you to continue to derail this thread by continuing to argue on this specific line with you. Have a nice day.

lynxpilot
I spent a whole career fighting the 'cold war' for the US and funny thing, I like Putin way better than Obama. Putin is actually a leader. Obama is a pawn. NSA, Joint Chiefs, and Mossad are running Obama. Putin speaks for himself.

Putin is not a leader. Putin is a dictator. Refresh your memory, read history. Please, don't allow a few well composed very simple truths make you forget that Putin is the same KGB son of a b... bolsheviks he always was. These people are masters of mass propaganda. Don't allow them get propaganda under your skin and into your blood. Decide for yourself and for your country and remember who's Putin.

WhiteAlice
reply to post by Indigo5

 

You asked the poster for information in this statement: "Please cite an example of the US Gov. Arresting or killing Journalists... "

And thank you for that...you also provided the USA's ranking as far as Freedom of the Press...32nd?
Whilst not citing that Russia ranks 148th? Or something similar on that scale?

WhiteAlice
It takes two to derail a thread and at this point, that's what this kind of feels like. I provided the information you requested.

Agreed...so on topic..

Putin is a sociopathic tyrant who arrests and murders journalists and political opponents by the hundreds.

He also has no business telling the USA we should not intervene in Syria's affairs while Russian Planes arrive weekly in Damascus with heavy arms and advisors.

While I am opposed to intervention in Syria, I find those who choose to endorse Vladimir Putin or applaud Russian foreign policy misinformed and ignorant at best....or so pre-occupied with the failings of our government or their hatred of our President that they would ignorantly applaud a Tyrant like Putin.

His words were nothing more than carefully considered propaganda...and the validity of his statements is fair for debate, but the Putin/Russia love I have seen on this thread is pure ignorance of history and the present.

Poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko

Alexander Litvinenko was a former officer of the Russian Federal Security Service, FSB and KGB, who fled from court prosecution in Russia and received political asylum in the United Kingdom.
..

Upon his arrival to London, he continued to support the Russian oligarch in exile, Boris Berezovsky, in his media campaign against the Russian government.

...

Litvinenko wrote two books, Blowing up Russia: Terror from within and Lubyanka Criminal Group, where he accused the Russian secret services of staging Russian apartment bombings and other terrorism acts to bring Vladimir Putin to power.

On 1 November 2006, Litvinenko suddenly fell ill and was hospitalized. He died three weeks later, becoming the first confirmed victim of lethal polonium-210-induced acute radiation syndrome.

According to doctors, "Litvinenko's murder represents an ominous landmark: the beginning of an era of nuclear terrorism".

Litvinenko's allegations about the misdeeds of the FSB and his public deathbed accusations that Russian president Vladimir Putin was behind his unusual malady resulted in worldwide media coverage.

...

British authorities asserted that "we are 100% sure who administered the poison, where and how", but they did not disclose their evidence in the interest of a future trial. The main suspect in the case, a former officer of the Russian Federal Protective Service (FSO), Andrei Lugovoy, remains in Russia. As a member of the Duma, he now enjoys immunity from prosecution. Before he was elected to the Duma, the British government tried to extradite him without success.

In his last statement he said about Putin:


...this may be the time to say one or two things to the person responsible for my present condition. You may succeed in silencing me but that silence comes at a price. You have shown yourself to be as barbaric and ruthless as your most hostile critics have claimed. You have shown yourself to have no respect for life, liberty or any civilised value. You have shown yourself to be unworthy of your office, to be unworthy of the trust of civilised men and women. You may succeed in silencing one man but the howl of protest from around the world will reverberate, Mr Putin, in your ears for the rest of your life. May God forgive you for what you have done, not only to me but to beloved Russia and its people

Putin can go eff himself...and whatever mistakes our country has made, I am grateful I live somewhere where I can say that and not be murdered.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by wrabbit2000


Could he be trying to get himself elected after Obama leaves office ? I mean if schwarzenegger can become mayor well...?

72 flags, six pages later on a heavy hashed site and still non conclusive evidence.

vcJ-o_fh1B4


packet flow way way to irregular

reply to post by darkbake


I believe there is ample evidence that Obama's father is Frank Marshall Davis a known communist who spent 3 days a week with Obama while he was growing up in Hawaii. It explains Obama's communist agenda very well. This short video shows this lineage really well.



A more detailed explanation was in the movie put out a little while ago proving Davis is Obama's real father, and why Obama will never release his records. I have the DVD and it's not easy to find online to watch now, but there are potions available, and you can go to the main site for it and get it. Davis and Obama's mother were intimate friends and he had nude pictures of her. This is a promo clip for that documentary:



Once you see all the facts, know the communist agenda then you understand why Obama has been doing exactly what he has been doing. I do find it amazing that a hard line communist, Putin, is being portrayed as he is which to me is a simply psy-op job to further make us detest our own President and favor the Russian communist Putin.

What better way to fully turn America to communism than putting in a communist, but had Americans known who Obama's real father was then he never would have been elected imho.

reply to post by wrabbit2000


Our sides psy-ops are working with the Russian ones, and they are doing their jobs well.

Someone do me a favor, give Putin a call and tell him that the Syria thing is sort of out of my hands. I don't want to go blow those people up either, but my government hasn't exactly listened to what me or my fellow Americans say for years now.

So if he could just keep that in mind so when this whole thing goes horribly wrong, he'll know it was the government and not the people.