UK Tops the US in Violent Crime by 25%

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posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:00 AM
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There are a lot of folks who like to say that guns are bad and cause crime.

There is not only no evidence supporting this specious claim but, the documented statistics present a completely opposite conclusion. Guns reduce crime.

At present, our gun ownership has dramatically increased and that has resulted in a corresponding reduction in crime. As it happens, accidental gun deaths are also down which is in direct contradiction to the popular rhetoric.

I wish there was a smiley with gun but, this will have to do.


Crime stats: United Kingdom vs United States

Disarming Realities: As Gun Sales Soar, Gun Crimes Plummet

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Firearm Violence, 1993-2011
edit on 11-9-2013 by greencmp because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:03 AM
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"Social Media" posts are now considered a valid source of information?

Seriously?!
edit on 11-9-2013 by ratcals because: Punctuation



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:08 AM
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You removed your link. Here, I'll put it back for you.

UK Crime rate



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by greencmp
 


What does any of your post have to do with the thread title?

I especially like this bit.


greencmp

There is not only no evidence supporting this specious claim


which ironically is exactly the same amount of evidence as you've provided.

EDIT and now you've changed the thread title.

Even funnier, if the link from someone above is the one you're using to back up this fact I guess you didn't make it to the final paragraph.


The meme said "there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the U.K.," compared to "466 violent crimes per 100,000" in the United States. Our preliminary attempt to make an apples-to-apples comparison shows a much smaller difference in violent crime rates between the two countries, but criminologists say differences in how the statistics are collected make it impossible to produce a truly valid comparison. We rate the claim False.
edit on 11-9-2013 by khimbar because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by ratcals
 

I also removed the "by far" reference and put in the more accurate 25% in the title.

Thanks for the quick response and feet to the fire attention!


I posted the wrong links, I will put up the right ones shortly.


I should do that more often, I bet this will be a knock down drag out!
edit on 11-9-2013 by greencmp because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by khimbar
 


The OP completely changed his post. That's why I added his link back. It's not even true what he is proclaiming. PolitiFact even states it's false. That's what I hate about this site most. People just make claims and pass them off as fact without checking on them.



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by ratcals
 


Yep, and now it'll turn into another pointless gun thread, which argues the same things which have been argued countless times, with the same cultural stereotypes and insults and it will end up in a trans-Atlantic grudge fest.

Yay. Another one.



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:24 AM
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I don't see how you are going to be able to come up with any credible evidence to support your claim. Here are two that contradict it.

Gun crime by country

More evidence

I can do this all day, but I think you get the point.



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by greencmp
 

Well, the politi"fact" article points out that crime rates are calculated differently in the US and the UK.

Actually, I think Ben Swann reported on this as well.

And they also differentiated between the UK (which includes Ireland and Scotland) vs England and Wales.

When the US is compared to England and Wales, the crime rate is still higher but with less of a discrepancy.


This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

Either way, England is an incredibly violent country but gun grabbers like Piers Morgan could care less about violence, they just care about violence WITH guns.

As long as these statists focus on confiscating and blaming objects ie guns vs addressing the true causes of criminal behavior, society will continue to decline.

edit on 11-9-2013 by gladtobehere because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by greencmp
 


If you look at violent crime then yes i know in the UK we seem to have more per head of population but to then claims its all to do with guns is just twisting statistics.

Yes in America gun ownership has risen and gun crime has lower but to turn that into a comparison about violent crime in the uk vs America is frankly stupid.

In the UK we have like 52 gun deaths a year, which is very very low especially when you think about how high our violent crime actually is and that guns only make up a tiny proportion of that crime. America has way way more gun crime than the uk, that's the point.



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:30 AM
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OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by greencmp
 
In the UK we have like 52 gun deaths a year, which is very very low especially when you think about how high our violent crime actually is and that guns only make up a tiny proportion of that crime. America has way way more gun crime than the uk, that's the point.

Piers loved to throw out that number, "52 52 52" gun related homicides.

But theres MORE violent crime in the UK, just because there are fewer violent crimes with guns doesnt make it any less deplorable!

edit on 11-9-2013 by gladtobehere because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:33 AM
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ratcals
I don't see how you are going to be able to come up with any credible evidence to support your claim. Here are two that contradict it.

Gun crime by country

More evidence

I can do this all day, but I think you get the point.


You're doing it wrong. Gun crime is not equal to all violent crime.

Cherry picking specifics to disprove generalities doesnt work.

Not saying the OP's claim is true. Havent looked that far myself. But isolating gun crime numbers is not the same as an inclusive violent crime number.



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by gladtobehere
 





So its perfectly fine to commit violent crimes, just so long as its not with a gun...


I did not say that!

What i mean is that yes in the UK we have higher rates of violent crime and we dont have guns, in America you have lower rates of crime yet you have more guns

However

In the UK we dont have as many guns and we have hardly any gun crime, in the US you lot have lots of guns and a much higher rate of gun crime.

It would be unwise to attempt to turn these two issues into the same issue which seems to be what the OP is trying out

I did not say at any point it was "perfectly fin to commit violent crimes" so please dont put words into my mouth.
edit on 11-9-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:35 AM
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Okay, I'm confused now. Are you trying to point out gun crime statistics? Or violent crime. I was kind of thinking you were going with gun crime as 3/4 of your links are about guns. If you're talking violent crime then you're probably correct. However, if you're talking gun crimes then you couldn't be more wrong.



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:37 AM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 

That may not be your argument, but that was Piers' main argument, "52 52 52" gun deaths.

Who cares???

Is a non-related gun death any less tragic? Piers Morgan thinks so. In the twisted mind of a Piers Morgan, murder is only bad when guns are involved:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 11-9-2013 by gladtobehere because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:38 AM
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thisguyrighthere

ratcals
I don't see how you are going to be able to come up with any credible evidence to support your claim. Here are two that contradict it.

Gun crime by country

More evidence

I can do this all day, but I think you get the point.


You're doing it wrong. Gun crime is not equal to all violent crime.

Cherry picking specifics to disprove generalities doesnt work.

Not saying the OP's claim is true. Havent looked that far myself. But isolating gun crime numbers is not the same as an inclusive violent crime number.


What the OP titled the thread and what they chose to talk about were two completely different things. The tite speaks of violent crime. Yet his opening thread WAS all about gun violence. I didn't cherry pick at all. Plus you'll see I have made an additional post asking for clarification as to whether we are talking about gun crime or violent crime.
edit on 11-9-2013 by ratcals because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:39 AM
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ratcals
Okay, I'm confused now. Are you trying to point out gun crime statistics? Or violent crime. I was kind of thinking you were going with gun crime as 3/4 of your links are about guns. If you're talking violent crime then you're probably correct. However, if you're talking gun crimes then you couldn't be more wrong.


I believe the point trying to be made is gun ownership reduces violent crime. Obviously you don't need a gun to commit a violent crime.



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by gladtobehere
 





That may not be your argument, but that was Piers' main argument, "52 52 52" gun deaths.


And who care what he has to say, what does that have to do with anything

I happen to support the Second Amendment, I wouldn't want it in the uk but i can understand why Americans defend it so strongly.

Yet at the same time i am realistic of the facts, more guns in America, less guns in the uk , More guns crime in the US less gun crime in the UK

frankly the whole desire to compare the UK with USA crime stat's pisses me of because the whole point is mute.

I mean why does it even matter if the UK has a higher rate of violent crime than the US?



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:41 AM
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jjkenobi

ratcals
Okay, I'm confused now. Are you trying to point out gun crime statistics? Or violent crime. I was kind of thinking you were going with gun crime as 3/4 of your links are about guns. If you're talking violent crime then you're probably correct. However, if you're talking gun crimes then you couldn't be more wrong.


I believe the point trying to be made is gun ownership reduces violent crime. Obviously you don't need a gun to commit a violent crime.


At the very least the proliferation of guns does not coincide with the proliferation of violent crime.

If I had a nickle for every time I've heard the "the streets will run red!" or the "Old West shootouts everywhere!" hyperbole from hoplophobes regarding the liberalization of carry laws I'd have a sock full of nickels to beat them with.



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:46 AM
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AND STILL I'm calling the OP out. Yes, his first link sums up the UK having 25% more TOTAL crimes than the US. TOTAL crimes does not equal VIOLENT crimes. Get your facts straight.





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