'No Longer Necessary': Hungary Wants to Throw Out IMF

Barroso has made it very clear he (read:his masters) is very dissatisfied with Viktor Orbán's government.

I believe he will be dealt with via one of the usual methods:

-fabricated scandal, maybe about rape allegations or pedophile material
-car crash a la Haider (or Hastings)
-straight up assassination a la Pym Fortuyn

If all this fails, there's always the good ol' "peaceful demonstrators oppressed by the government"


However, keep in mind Hungary is a small player in the EU and the MSM isn't reporting this in the west(as far as I've seen), so they'll maybe leave him be, and simply rig next elections.

As soon as Syria and Iran are dispatched, the Central Banking powers will move on and bring Hungary back into the fold. You must belong!

Hungary, the strategic link between the Croatian coast and the USSR (Ukraine)...

hmmm. I guess we have a cold war to not fight. The last thing Europe wants or needs is American troops on the ground. But I suppose once you outgrow the sand-pit you start playing in the streets.

AurelioMaghe
Barroso has made it very clear he (read:his masters) is very dissatisfied with Viktor Orbán's government.

I believe he will be dealt with via one of the usual methods:

-fabricated scandal, maybe about rape allegations or pedophile material
-car crash a la Haider (or Hastings)
-straight up assassination a la Pym Fortuyn

If all this fails, there's always the good ol' "peaceful demonstrators oppressed by the government"


However, keep in mind Hungary is a small player in the EU and the MSM isn't reporting this in the west(as far as I've seen), so they'll maybe leave him be, and simply rig next elections.

edit on 12-9-2013 by AurelioMaghe because: (no reason given)

If I had not been told about this from a friend I would not have knows about it.

The media is keeping a tight lip on this and not surprisingly so.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


thanks for the OP

..there s something else going on here i think, T3
a bit Uncatchable, in fact
because
there s this video of the vid of peres who states gleefully that 'we bought whole of E europe'

which s true btw

so - i consider what 'hungary' does now, more like some diversion

like... "They" create an antipode situation [ as the rest of europe] ... in some Unimportant country
[ the economy is relative Small one]

with helping a leader , who has a bit dictatorial...almost christian-fascist aspects

sómething Stinks here
...but i havent quite found out yet what

regards,

- added -

...and an aspect may be here, that this specific Treatment was chosen for Hungary,
since the hungarian Soul is deeply, deeply Nationalistic

- it had no sense to plunge Hungary in some ethnic war though
- like They did with serbia etc -

but, instead, choose thís way of Imploding the country

...by first let the hungarian soul be connected with this "brave government" ,
- and, soon, to let it all Implode

..something like this is going on here

i know the hungarians and their history - and what They want

...absolutely gorgious - 1992 - slow soft rock

stylish and nice beat



*this* is the hungarian Soul

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


What if they kick out the IMF and other countries start following suit. People start backing currencies with real commodities. Hard asset bartering becomes common place without swat teams kicking in doors. War criminals get hung. Big bank thieves get shot. Everyone leaves the criminal big banks and start banking with small private banks. Dual citizen Israeli's get kicked out of every government or worse... People start ranch funds, where all your meat and other food is raised locally and whatever is left over is sold. Sorry this is off topic but can you believe they have what's called the Monsanto protection act ?! Disgusting. What do you know about a delicious grass fed steak without hormones pumped into it, without the stress hormones in it because it didn't watch 100 cows get slaughtered before it did? What do you know about eating a box of oreos in bed in the middle of the night?

StopThaZionistWorldOrder
reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

What if they kick out the IMF and other countries start following suit. People start backing currencies with real commodities. Hard asset bartering becomes common place without swat teams kicking in doors. War criminals get hung. Big bank thieves get shot. Everyone leaves the criminal big banks and start banking with small private banks. Dual citizen Israeli's get kicked out of every government or worse... People start ranch funds, where all your meat and other food is raised locally and whatever is left over is sold. Sorry this is off topic but can you believe they have what's called the Monsanto protection act ?! Disgusting. What do you know about a delicious grass fed steak without hormones pumped into it, without the stress hormones in it because it didn't watch 100 cows get slaughtered before it did? What do you know about eating a box of oreos in bed in the middle of the night?

edit on 15-9-2013 by StopThaZionistWorldOrder because: typos

So your for it or against it??

Cant quite tell..

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


I'm for abolition of the IMF, auditing the fed, redistribution of the World Bank Assets to American citizens, and restitution for all derivative debt theft.

StopThaZionistWorldOrder
reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

I'm for abolition of the IMF, auditing the fed, redistribution of the World Bank Assets to American citizens, and restitution for all derivative debt theft.

Well from your fingers to God's eyes..or whatever it uses to observe text. Here's hoping buddy...here's hoping.

I am Hungarian, though a US citizen, and I have been living here where I was raised since 98.
While the resistance against the IMF in itself is commendable, the background or the reasons for it are not. A dictatorship by the local moneyed elite in sharply on the way, dividing the country to rich friends of the governing party and all its people plus non-government-allied tycoons and multinationals. The way I see it, all the post-Soviet governments here were involved in a covert multilevel agreement to rip off all the country and its national holdings formerly concentrated in the hands of the state. About 4 million in Hungary live below the official EU poverty standard, welfare only extends to 3 months, and about 3,5 hundred thousand people (mostly young ones) left since the recent switch to the ultra right.

During the elections of 2010, Orbán and his party were accorded power by 2/3 of adult votes. That's extraordinary because it gave to power to governing right-wing nationalists to rewrite the Constitution and instill a police dictatorship, sapping all money away from public education, transportation and health care (Hungary has had a state-run health care system since 1948). The landslide partly reflected the total dissatisfaction of voters with the economic crisis and its handling by former governments, which were corrupt but by far not so openly. Orbán's friends get to win all public tenders, they are solving the welfare crisis by forced labor conscription (public works for less than minimum wage), they nationalized part of the savings of Hungarian retirees and they instituted a flat tax of 16% - abolishing progressive taxation of the rich which only benefits the richest 3-5 percent of people. That one act alone led to a total lack of funds in the state budget which they are trying to balance by raising everything a common citizen can pay, from police fines to various penalties. And they usually sack people openly if they are not party members or criticize Mr. Orbán. All the while, they cooperate and sometimes promote erecting monuments to Nazi-style leaders and Nazi symbols all across the country, to the consternation of Jewish people, Gypsies, and liberals, not to speak of the neighboring countries.

Nationalism and abetting far-right groups has raised worries in neighboring countries too. Background: after the unjust Versailles Treaty, 2/3 of Hungary's historical territory was taken away and millions of ethnic Hungarians are across the borders still. (Hungarians refer to this tragic event as Trianon, since the decisions affecting Hungary were brought in the Trianon Building of Versailles Castle after World War 1.) Most Hungarians do not wish a border revision or wars with Serbia, Romania or Slovakia, but this party issued citizenship with controversial voting rights within Hungary to ethnic Hungarian citizens of neighboring countries.

But the top of the cream is just coming: this article in Hungarian shows that this nation is the 13th in the world - passing Ukraine, Kazakhstan etc. - in off-shore holdings, 242 thousand million USD in 2010, compared to the national debt then of 100 thousand million USD. That means both blocks of power - this semi-Fascist style which favors only a small circle of Hungarian entrepreneurs, some Mafia and some Chinese investors - and the preceding one which was favoring multinationals, EU and Western investors collaborated in ripping off the common folks so badly that there is no example like this in the history of the European Union. (Even in Italy, the Mafia controls mostly the southern part). All the while bringing draconian measures against the poor: for example, being homeless in a city now is a crime and you are fined for exorbitant sums - which leads to jail and forced labor. Gypsies are the biggest losers of all this - ghettoization is spreading in Third World style villages in the Eastern part. Entire industries have been sold out to market buyers who closed them immediately. An FX-based homeowner's loan - of debatable legality - was taken out by millions in the early years of this century (we have no Euro still), mostly in Swiss francs, which has since climbed to three times its former value, with loan payments accordingly. This crippled several hundreds of thousands of homeowners in this country of 10 million. (Hungarians are very attached to owning a home or apartment and there is barely a rental market.)

In this picture of two opposing blocks (one chanting nationalistic slogans and the other progress and international stuff) both are pretty guilty, but while the style of the former government was stealing from the people according to the routine traditions of neo-liberal economy and off-shoring, this one is approaching the style of an open robbery. Checks and balances of a democratic society have been taken out or replaced in all legislation - abusing the sudden power of a 2/3 electorate in 2010 (millions of which voters may be now just as dissatisfied with the present state as they had been with the former one.) Joblessness is around 30 percent in the age group of 20-30, while wages are one fourth to one eighth of EU wages. Unemployed college professors are picking trash now, 93-year-olds are forced out of a self-owned apartment due to the FX loan scandal - while the Mafiosi that made billions in the 90's by the "oil blonding scandal" (in which they stole state-funded heating oil and resold it several times the price as diesel ingredient) are still running free.

Do you still think that this is a great example? I mean, Iceland kicked out the bankers because it wanted to favor its own people. Hungary sent the IMF away to favor the rich, while still taking loans from private banks, and would become bankrupt in a day or two if the EU wasn't sending funds for development etc.

As the last note, a law was brought against foreign citizens' buying agricultural lands. As the next step, a handful of families (most do not really have agricultural enterprises BTW) bought them all up - all with ties to the ruling party... You are worried about the NSA in the US and rightly so. Well, in Hungary, the new government founded an anti-terror authority in 2010 (there have been no terrorist actions in Hungary, period), which has a legal right to monitor any communication of any citizen any time... and not tell them even in retrospect.

If that is a good example to you guys to cure the ills of today's society, you are trying to stop a fire by pouring gasoline/petrol on it...

Article in Hungarian about off-shore property by an international off-shore watching organization

Here is the table of countries (from the above link) with the countries ranked with the highest off-shore property of individuals (yachts and dachas not included, just money) - you will recognize most country names, though this source is in Hungarian:

Elszállt vagyonok
Milliárd dollár
Kína 1189
Oroszország 798
Dél-Korea 779
Brazília 520
Kuvait 496
Mexikó 417
Venezuela 406
Argentína 399
Indonézia 331
Szaúd-Arábia 308
Nigéria 306
Malajzia 283
Magyarország 242
Szingapúr 169
Ukrajna 167
Lengyelország 165
Törökország 158
Irán 147
Elefántcsontpart 141
Kazahsztán 138
Összesen 7559
Forrás: Tax Justice Network

This is in thousand million US dollars.
Maybe if you Google Tax Justice Network, you will see the original source
Magyarország = Hungary

A short recap:

Brief recap of the Tax Justice Network data in English

And here's a summary document with properly researched scientific sources by James Henry of Tax Justice Network: James Henry, Tax Justice Network - summary

Hope some of you will reconsider the background of Mr Orbán's decisions. As a citizen, I am not saying he did not do anything good for his country but ... very little, except inflating the pride of Fascists and stuffing the pockets of some local tycoons.

On top of this all, Hungary owes vast amounts to the European Union itself. The Value Added Tax is 27%, one among the highest of the world. About 80 percent of gasoline/petrol prices are taxes - the result is that it is cheaper to fill up in any neighboring country than here. All tobacco was nationalized in a National chain, with rigged competition (lists prove that), sometimes forcing small tobacco sellers out of their business that did it for decades. All this to counterbalance the FLAT TAX which takes hundreds of billions out of the pockets of the common folks. I cannot repeat it often enough. In a way, this is like ... already approaching Argentina, plus a vicious race war between Gyspies (the largest minority in European countries live here, apart from Romania which is doing better presently).

Now with language proficiency of foreign languages (English chiefly) we rank at the 27th - the last - in the Union. Part of that is because instead of using subtitles, we dub every film - badly and cheaply. Which clearly hinders the movement abroad but it has started. More people fled the country in the past years than after the Soviet repression of the 1956 Revolution... especially the young and the educated. Mr. Orbán brought a law to make them stay - either there is no state support for tuition (which average middle class families can no longer afford), or doctors etc. have to sign up for ten years of working here after graduation. The numbers: a beginner medical doctor in the UK if he/she speaks tolerable professional English will make 10 times than here at home as a starting salary... (which is usually not sufficient to rent a single-room apartment in the city). Now in the ideology of the government, such people that leave are termed "Traitors of the Fatherland"... Well, a unique example for sure.

reply to post by Kokatsi


Thanks for the awesome input.

That is a lot of information to digest and im sure most us wont have the fantastic insight you seem to grasp on the situation being Hungarian yourself.

Is there a more summarized version you can describe for the less initiated on the subject myself included.

So how do you think this will pan out for the people that live there? Will they still be slaves just to a new master?

TiM3LoRd
reply to post by Kokatsi

 

Thanks for the awesome input.

That is a lot of information to digest and im sure most us wont have the fantastic insight you seem to grasp on the situation being Hungarian yourself.

Is there a more summarized version you can describe for the less initiated on the subject myself included.

So how do you think this will pan out for the people that live there? Will they still be slaves just to a new master?

Thank you!

Let me try to summarize. The reason why it is not easy is that there are so many odd things about this small country that require explanation...

Part of it is scary. It is like making a homeroom teacher out of your class bully. Or, alternatively, to appoint the heads of Cosa Nostra and 'Ndrangheta to lead Italy. At any rate, this system is closer to the Southern European or Russian/Putininan model than either the well functioning democracies of Western and Norther Europe, or the US, Canada Australia.

But, you could ask, two thirds of people voted for this guy and his party... so why? Well, it's actually closer to 53% of those that went to vote... (probably no cheating) Widespread disillusion with the multinational-neo-liberal system was no doubt the basis.

The side heavily favoring multi-nationals and banks is usually called the Left over here. They have a Socialist Party (only in name). Their roots are with the former leaders serving Soviet colonialism, who frequently turned from Party chiefs into venture capitalists - holding all the privileges already in 1989. Possibly the only Left-like thing about them is that to some extent they have always tried to give some sympathy to the very poorest layers, and they re usually against racism. Otherwise, their economic philosophy is firmly neo-liberal, markets first.

The other side is a bit new in European politics, but it has a decidedly Fascist flavor. It is also strongly capitalistic, but as far as packaging, it sells itself in the colors of firm nationalism, open backing of big churches etc. No separation of church and state - e.g. you have to take religion classes now in state schools. However small sects were all cast out last year by a Parliament ruling from church status - most small evangelicals and also all Buddhists and anyone who appears slightly unusual. It sells populist slogans - some of which actually sound very good, like combating the overpower of international banks and service providers. True, gas and electric companies - mostly owned by Western investors - usually behave like lords of life and death towards an average Hungarian household. They do all those things civil society prohibits them from doing in their home countries - Germany, Italy, France, the US etc. It took me once five years of court battles to prove that the single monopolistic ISP carrier had been overcharging me for a few months. The poor, like Gypsy ghetto dwellers in the East, are usually visited by commandos, they steal electricity and usually one out of five heads of households is in jail in rotation for that.

So when Mr. Orban says F*** the utilities, we're going to nationalize them - a lot of simple folks say he's our man. He and his party actually say some very attractive things to voters - only, when it comes to the execution, it is again a single set of families that win out and the average man loses.

Similar to the population of post-World War Germany, many East Europeans feel cheated by the new post-Soviet system as far as money and territory and all those less idealistic things are concerned.

Look at it this way. Hitler also said some good things - at least on the surface - to the average German of the 30's. Let us take our country back, get rid of parasitical bankers and show some force and order in disintegrating society... Our country has been picked on by the bad guys. The NSDAP called themselves "Socialist," and initially they did quite a few things that helped German middle classes... In other words, he targeted real and existing problems - needless to say, his solution was worse than the problem itself. And, it could be shown that a group of loyal capitalists were profiting from his system until the end (like Krupp, I.G. Farben etc.). Wealth did not actually go to the common everyday workers as in Socialist dreams it does.

Just like that of Hitler, the real vitriol of the new Nationalists (Fidesz and Jobbik) is displayed towards "Communists" and "Liberals." Jobbik is the bogeyman to whip people into accepting this Latin/Russian style of dictatorship and its leader is quite charismatic. They take the blame away for being openly anti-Semitic, wanting to lock up Gypsies into some labor camp-like environment and put homosexuals in jail.

Perhaps this is an experimental cage where some rats are injected to fight all the others... And ideology barely explains the simple fact that there are two sets of about 50 influential families like the Hutus and the Tutsis in Rwanda. At this stage both sets seem to be in it for moeny and power, and not our of sheer idealism.

Hungary is small, but two World Wars have already broke out in Eastern Europe...
And Yugoslavia wasn't fun much either.

The world's leading private off-shore property in USD thousand million (billion)
Thousand million USD
China 1189
Russia 798
South Kor. 779
Brasil 520
Kuwait 496
Mexico 417
Venezuela 406
Argentina 399
Indonesia 331
Sau. Arabia 308
Nigeria 306
Malaysia 283
Hungary 242
Singapore 169
Ukraine 167
Poland 165
Turkey 158
Iran 147
Ivory Coast 141
Kazakhstan 138
Total 7559

Credit to the Tax Justice Network, TJN home page

Kokatsi

TiM3LoRd
reply to post by Kokatsi

 

Thanks for the awesome input.

That is a lot of information to digest and im sure most us wont have the fantastic insight you seem to grasp on the situation being Hungarian yourself.

Is there a more summarized version you can describe for the less initiated on the subject myself included.

So how do you think this will pan out for the people that live there? Will they still be slaves just to a new master?

Thank you!

Let me try to summarize. The reason why it is not easy is that there are so many odd things about this small country that require explanation...

Part of it is scary. It is like making a homeroom teacher out of your class bully. Or, alternatively, to appoint the heads of Cosa Nostra and 'Ndrangheta to lead Italy. At any rate, this system is closer to the Southern European or Russian/Putininan model than either the well functioning democracies of Western and Norther Europe, or the US, Canada Australia.

But, you could ask, two thirds of people voted for this guy and his party... so why? Well, it's actually closer to 53% of those that went to vote... (probably no cheating) Widespread disillusion with the multinational-neo-liberal system was no doubt the basis.

The side heavily favoring multi-nationals and banks is usually called the Left over here. They have a Socialist Party (only in name). Their roots are with the former leaders serving Soviet colonialism, who frequently turned from Party chiefs into venture capitalists - holding all the privileges already in 1989. Possibly the only Left-like thing about them is that to some extent they have always tried to give some sympathy to the very poorest layers, and they re usually against racism. Otherwise, their economic philosophy is firmly neo-liberal, markets first.

The other side is a bit new in European politics, but it has a decidedly Fascist flavor. It is also strongly capitalistic, but as far as packaging, it sells itself in the colors of firm nationalism, open backing of big churches etc. No separation of church and state - e.g. you have to take religion classes now in state schools. However small sects were all cast out last year by a Parliament ruling from church status - most small evangelicals and also all Buddhists and anyone who appears slightly unusual. It sells populist slogans - some of which actually sound very good, like combating the overpower of international banks and service providers. True, gas and electric companies - mostly owned by Western investors - usually behave like lords of life and death towards an average Hungarian household. They do all those things civil society prohibits them from doing in their home countries - Germany, Italy, France, the US etc. It took me once five years of court battles to prove that the single monopolistic ISP carrier had been overcharging me for a few months. The poor, like Gypsy ghetto dwellers in the East, are usually visited by commandos, they steal electricity and usually one out of five heads of households is in jail in rotation for that.

So when Mr. Orban says F*** the utilities, we're going to nationalize them - a lot of simple folks say he's our man. He and his party actually say some very attractive things to voters - only, when it comes to the execution, it is again a single set of families that win out and the average man loses.

Similar to the population of post-World War Germany, many East Europeans feel cheated by the new post-Soviet system as far as money and territory and all those less idealistic things are concerned.

Look at it this way. Hitler also said some good things - at least on the surface - to the average German of the 30's. Let us take our country back, get rid of parasitical bankers and show some force and order in disintegrating society... Our country has been picked on by the bad guys. The NSDAP called themselves "Socialist," and initially they did quite a few things that helped German middle classes... In other words, he targeted real and existing problems - needless to say, his solution was worse than the problem itself. And, it could be shown that a group of loyal capitalists were profiting from his system until the end (like Krupp, I.G. Farben etc.). Wealth did not actually go to the common everyday workers as in Socialist dreams it does.

Just like that of Hitler, the real vitriol of the new Nationalists (Fidesz and Jobbik) is displayed towards "Communists" and "Liberals." Jobbik is the bogeyman to whip people into accepting this Latin/Russian style of dictatorship and its leader is quite charismatic. They take the blame away for being openly anti-Semitic, wanting to lock up Gypsies into some labor camp-like environment and put homosexuals in jail.

Perhaps this is an experimental cage where some rats are injected to fight all the others... And ideology barely explains the simple fact that there are two sets of about 50 influential families like the Hutus and the Tutsis in Rwanda. At this stage both sets seem to be in it for moeny and power, and not our of sheer idealism.

Hungary is small, but two World Wars have already broke out in Eastern Europe...
And Yugoslavia wasn't fun much either.

Brother that was a fantastic take on a complex situation, seems like quite a few variables in play there.

So essentially from what I can gather the new leader is simply feeding off the disillusionment of the people to fund his own personal growth and the growth of his close family and friends. His call to rid the IMF from Hungary is simply his desire to have his own bank in play and make the money himself.

So he is just a suave slick talking con man. And the people will only be replaying one form of slavery for another. Interesting and makes sense, If this guy was really going to make a change for the better the Powers that be would have taken him out asap. Since he is just a small time dictator who have convinced the people he has their best interest at heart he can still be manipulated by those pulling the higher strings and as such still be useful to them. If he however tries to make a change that empowers the people I have no doubt he will be dealt with post haste.

TiM3LoRd

Kokatsi

TiM3LoRd
reply to post by Kokatsi

 

Thanks for the awesome input.

That is a lot of information to digest and im sure most us wont have the fantastic insight you seem to grasp on the situation being Hungarian yourself.

Is there a more summarized version you can describe for the less initiated on the subject myself included.

So how do you think this will pan out for the people that live there? Will they still be slaves just to a new master?

Thank you!

Let me try to summarize. The reason why it is not easy is that there are so many odd things about this small country that require explanation...

Part of it is scary. It is like making a homeroom teacher out of your class bully. Or, alternatively, to appoint the heads of Cosa Nostra and 'Ndrangheta to lead Italy. At any rate, this system is closer to the Southern European or Russian/Putininan model than either the well functioning democracies of Western and Norther Europe, or the US, Canada Australia.

But, you could ask, two thirds of people voted for this guy and his party... so why? Well, it's actually closer to 53% of those that went to vote... (probably no cheating) Widespread disillusion with the multinational-neo-liberal system was no doubt the basis.

The side heavily favoring multi-nationals and banks is usually called the Left over here. They have a Socialist Party (only in name). Their roots are with the former leaders serving Soviet colonialism, who frequently turned from Party chiefs into venture capitalists - holding all the privileges already in 1989. Possibly the only Left-like thing about them is that to some extent they have always tried to give some sympathy to the very poorest layers, and they re usually against racism. Otherwise, their economic philosophy is firmly neo-liberal, markets first.

The other side is a bit new in European politics, but it has a decidedly Fascist flavor. It is also strongly capitalistic, but as far as packaging, it sells itself in the colors of firm nationalism, open backing of big churches etc. No separation of church and state - e.g. you have to take religion classes now in state schools. However small sects were all cast out last year by a Parliament ruling from church status - most small evangelicals and also all Buddhists and anyone who appears slightly unusual. It sells populist slogans - some of which actually sound very good, like combating the overpower of international banks and service providers. True, gas and electric companies - mostly owned by Western investors - usually behave like lords of life and death towards an average Hungarian household. They do all those things civil society prohibits them from doing in their home countries - Germany, Italy, France, the US etc. It took me once five years of court battles to prove that the single monopolistic ISP carrier had been overcharging me for a few months. The poor, like Gypsy ghetto dwellers in the East, are usually visited by commandos, they steal electricity and usually one out of five heads of households is in jail in rotation for that.

So when Mr. Orban says F*** the utilities, we're going to nationalize them - a lot of simple folks say he's our man. He and his party actually say some very attractive things to voters - only, when it comes to the execution, it is again a single set of families that win out and the average man loses.

Similar to the population of post-World War Germany, many East Europeans feel cheated by the new post-Soviet system as far as money and territory and all those less idealistic things are concerned.

Look at it this way. Hitler also said some good things - at least on the surface - to the average German of the 30's. Let us take our country back, get rid of parasitical bankers and show some force and order in disintegrating society... Our country has been picked on by the bad guys. The NSDAP called themselves "Socialist," and initially they did quite a few things that helped German middle classes... In other words, he targeted real and existing problems - needless to say, his solution was worse than the problem itself. And, it could be shown that a group of loyal capitalists were profiting from his system until the end (like Krupp, I.G. Farben etc.). Wealth did not actually go to the common everyday workers as in Socialist dreams it does.

Just like that of Hitler, the real vitriol of the new Nationalists (Fidesz and Jobbik) is displayed towards "Communists" and "Liberals." Jobbik is the bogeyman to whip people into accepting this Latin/Russian style of dictatorship and its leader is quite charismatic. They take the blame away for being openly anti-Semitic, wanting to lock up Gypsies into some labor camp-like environment and put homosexuals in jail.

Perhaps this is an experimental cage where some rats are injected to fight all the others... And ideology barely explains the simple fact that there are two sets of about 50 influential families like the Hutus and the Tutsis in Rwanda. At this stage both sets seem to be in it for moeny and power, and not our of sheer idealism.

Hungary is small, but two World Wars have already broke out in Eastern Europe...
And Yugoslavia wasn't fun much either.

Brother that was a fantastic take on a complex situation, seems like quite a few variables in play there.

So essentially from what I can gather the new leader is simply feeding off the disillusionment of the people to fund his own personal growth and the growth of his close family and friends. His call to rid the IMF from Hungary is simply his desire to have his own bank in play and make the money himself.

So he is just a suave slick talking con man. And the people will only be replaying one form of slavery for another. Interesting and makes sense, If this guy was really going to make a change for the better the Powers that be would have taken him out asap. Since he is just a small time dictator who have convinced the people he has their best interest at heart he can still be manipulated by those pulling the higher strings and as such still be useful to them. If he however tries to make a change that empowers the people I have no doubt he will be dealt with post haste.

Yes! I agree to everything you say here. This is a better end summary than my own.
So... Hungary isn't Iceland, woefully. I might actually want to emigrate there... (it will probably stay out of the coming world war anyway...)

Kokatsi

TiM3LoRd

Kokatsi

TiM3LoRd
reply to post by Kokatsi

 

Thanks for the awesome input.

That is a lot of information to digest and im sure most us wont have the fantastic insight you seem to grasp on the situation being Hungarian yourself.

Is there a more summarized version you can describe for the less initiated on the subject myself included.

So how do you think this will pan out for the people that live there? Will they still be slaves just to a new master?

Thank you!

Let me try to summarize. The reason why it is not easy is that there are so many odd things about this small country that require explanation...

Part of it is scary. It is like making a homeroom teacher out of your class bully. Or, alternatively, to appoint the heads of Cosa Nostra and 'Ndrangheta to lead Italy. At any rate, this system is closer to the Southern European or Russian/Putininan model than either the well functioning democracies of Western and Norther Europe, or the US, Canada Australia.

But, you could ask, two thirds of people voted for this guy and his party... so why? Well, it's actually closer to 53% of those that went to vote... (probably no cheating) Widespread disillusion with the multinational-neo-liberal system was no doubt the basis.

The side heavily favoring multi-nationals and banks is usually called the Left over here. They have a Socialist Party (only in name). Their roots are with the former leaders serving Soviet colonialism, who frequently turned from Party chiefs into venture capitalists - holding all the privileges already in 1989. Possibly the only Left-like thing about them is that to some extent they have always tried to give some sympathy to the very poorest layers, and they re usually against racism. Otherwise, their economic philosophy is firmly neo-liberal, markets first.

The other side is a bit new in European politics, but it has a decidedly Fascist flavor. It is also strongly capitalistic, but as far as packaging, it sells itself in the colors of firm nationalism, open backing of big churches etc. No separation of church and state - e.g. you have to take religion classes now in state schools. However small sects were all cast out last year by a Parliament ruling from church status - most small evangelicals and also all Buddhists and anyone who appears slightly unusual. It sells populist slogans - some of which actually sound very good, like combating the overpower of international banks and service providers. True, gas and electric companies - mostly owned by Western investors - usually behave like lords of life and death towards an average Hungarian household. They do all those things civil society prohibits them from doing in their home countries - Germany, Italy, France, the US etc. It took me once five years of court battles to prove that the single monopolistic ISP carrier had been overcharging me for a few months. The poor, like Gypsy ghetto dwellers in the East, are usually visited by commandos, they steal electricity and usually one out of five heads of households is in jail in rotation for that.

So when Mr. Orban says F*** the utilities, we're going to nationalize them - a lot of simple folks say he's our man. He and his party actually say some very attractive things to voters - only, when it comes to the execution, it is again a single set of families that win out and the average man loses.

Similar to the population of post-World War Germany, many East Europeans feel cheated by the new post-Soviet system as far as money and territory and all those less idealistic things are concerned.

Look at it this way. Hitler also said some good things - at least on the surface - to the average German of the 30's. Let us take our country back, get rid of parasitical bankers and show some force and order in disintegrating society... Our country has been picked on by the bad guys. The NSDAP called themselves "Socialist," and initially they did quite a few things that helped German middle classes... In other words, he targeted real and existing problems - needless to say, his solution was worse than the problem itself. And, it could be shown that a group of loyal capitalists were profiting from his system until the end (like Krupp, I.G. Farben etc.). Wealth did not actually go to the common everyday workers as in Socialist dreams it does.

Just like that of Hitler, the real vitriol of the new Nationalists (Fidesz and Jobbik) is displayed towards "Communists" and "Liberals." Jobbik is the bogeyman to whip people into accepting this Latin/Russian style of dictatorship and its leader is quite charismatic. They take the blame away for being openly anti-Semitic, wanting to lock up Gypsies into some labor camp-like environment and put homosexuals in jail.

Perhaps this is an experimental cage where some rats are injected to fight all the others... And ideology barely explains the simple fact that there are two sets of about 50 influential families like the Hutus and the Tutsis in Rwanda. At this stage both sets seem to be in it for moeny and power, and not our of sheer idealism.

Hungary is small, but two World Wars have already broke out in Eastern Europe...
And Yugoslavia wasn't fun much either.

Brother that was a fantastic take on a complex situation, seems like quite a few variables in play there.

So essentially from what I can gather the new leader is simply feeding off the disillusionment of the people to fund his own personal growth and the growth of his close family and friends. His call to rid the IMF from Hungary is simply his desire to have his own bank in play and make the money himself.

So he is just a suave slick talking con man. And the people will only be replaying one form of slavery for another. Interesting and makes sense, If this guy was really going to make a change for the better the Powers that be would have taken him out asap. Since he is just a small time dictator who have convinced the people he has their best interest at heart he can still be manipulated by those pulling the higher strings and as such still be useful to them. If he however tries to make a change that empowers the people I have no doubt he will be dealt with post haste.

Yes! I agree to everything you say here. This is a better end summary than my own.
So... Hungary isn't Iceland, woefully. I might actually want to emigrate there... (it will probably stay out of the coming world war anyway...)

Im not that smart so I have to simplify things for myself lol so if I can understand it most people should too.

I have been throwing the idea around of moving to Iceland myself but I hate the cold. But the heat here is getting too much.

Thanks for reminding of this, had forgot about it. Yeah it'll be interesting to see if there's propaganda and or/an event directed at the government of Hungary over the next year or two, (they might try to leave it a while so there's distance if they do something.) Hopefully a decent amount of people will be able to remember this event if something happens in the future too, and see how they might both link together.