The most civilized primate? NOT man. MURIQUI MONKEYS (Smithsonian)

reply to post by Tinkerpeach


Your argument for destruction of the Earth is repulsive and warrants no response except to say that people who think like that are less than humane. Arrogant BS.

We are capable of destroying this planet, and are well on our way to doing it. You think that's cool and okay?

I have nothing more to say to you. Disgusting.

reply to post by wildtimes

Wildtimes. Tinkerpeach knows something you don't. I know this because I know the same things. What he or she is saying has the backing of biology, of geology, of ecology, population dynamics... of science in general. What you are articulating is an emotional reaction based on folklore — which, nowadays, means the media — and conventional, judgemental moral attitudes that have no place in a discussion of this kind.

Just because someone is new to ATS doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about. Who knows what they do, what they've experienced, in real life? And just because someone has been here for a long time doesn't mean they have any kind of right of seniority. I've been here longer than most — a lot longer than you, as it happens — but you won't find me pulling nonexistent rank on newcomers.

As it happens, in this instance, you're wrong. You'd soon learn that — and learn better — if only you're willing to discuss the topic. Instead of biting Tinkerpeach's head off, why don't you ask him or her a few questions?

As for your moral judgement of somebody else's views, they are completely out of line: inappropriate, childish and emotional. You owe Tinkerpeach an apology.

I can open my mind enough to take into consideration that as chaotic as the universe is, it must also be chaotic on every level, every layer. As a species we reflect the push towards the singularity of the gaeian mind, the 'dream' of Earth if you will. Perhaps the Earth did engineer humanity to create plastics, but if you really think about it, there is no reason to even have these unnatural products but to benefit the unnatural greed of corrupt souls, so who came up with it?

Earth provided the blueprints of life for all species to live in harmony, and we in our infancy and primitiveness even to this day are wiping our mould like species from this cosmic apple and leaving massive repercussions in our wake. What kind of animals do that? Destroy the hEart (Earth) instead of nurture and understand it when given the truth on a silver platter?

reply to post by Astyanax


I don't owe her a damn thing. If she wants to feel good and get apologies, she can look in her Hopechest and find a glittery, smiley Tinkerbell to cheer her up.

Tinkerpeach knows something you don't. I know this because I know the same things.

LOL! Ooohh, well then....here's your meda ---- wait, you already have too many medals. They've gone to your head. *eyeroll*

Humans are violent, destructive, selfish, and wasteful, and foolish to think that they are so "superior". Period. I'm nearly 55 years old, have an advanced and excellent education, am well-traveled, knowledgeable in biology and ecology, and follow science on a daily basis, AS WELL AS SOCIOLOGY (which is my profession), and I don't bow down to on-line know-it-alls.

You think you're so "smart" - so does she. Big woop for the two of you. I have every reason to state what I am stating; I didn't write the article. Your ad hominem attack is ridiculous.

Humans are poisoning this planet, poisoning themselves, irresponsibly exploiting and abusing resources and other species, destroying and disrupting ecosystems that have been in place for millions of years, recklessly indifferent and shortsighted, and (as evidenced right here, every day), generally argumentative and unpleasant. We NEED ALL PARTS of this planet IN BALANCE for our survival. It's not an "emotional reaction" - it's common sense.

No hug for you; get off my branch and go find your own pesticide-riddled legumes. And leave my bees alone, too.

reply to post by wildtimes

I know better than to argue with you, wildtimes; your opinions are not amenable to change. Still, you may be nearly 55 years old (I celebrated that particular birthday just three days ago, oddly enough) but it doesn't make you either infallible or even particularly knowledgeable about the subject on the table.

I suppose you know the opinion us hard-science types have of sociology, so I won't hit that pedal either. Have a good weekend.

reply to post by Astyanax

I know better than to argue with you, wildtimes; your opinions are not amenable to change.

LOL! Right, Mr Mind-Firmly-Closed.

I am an open-minded person, with a wide variety of interests and a broad background; when I learn something new - which is something I pursue EVERY DAY, I am perfectly willing to shift my perspective to a more appropriate one. Your opinion is no more valid than mine. I am of the opinion that human beings are a detriment to MUCH of this planet's well-being.

You're right though - best we just leave each other alone. Happy belated birthday.

Have a great weekend yourself.

EDIT: Oh, by the way, in case either of you decide to step up with SOURCES to defend and back up your supreme "knowledge," feel free. So far, I'm the only one who has contributed a source.

...Well, this thread appears to have gone to the crapper... I really think some of the folks around here need to mature up a bit... I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore...

reply to post by 001ggg100


Sorry about that. Feel free to contribute....Please
I totally did NOT expect such a negative reaction to the article.

Makes me sad.

reply to post by wildtimes

I totally did NOT expect such a negative reaction to the article.

Two people disagreed with you. Politely. Giving examples.

Is that 'such a negative reaction''?

reply to post by Astyanax


Do you really have to perpetuate it?

reply to post by Astyanax


Tinkerpeach is anything but "polite", English hedgerows have naught to do with the topic, and you started YOUR response with "oh, it's you, wildtimes," and then proceeded to try to back her up. You didn't have to come on here at all, and now you've completely derailed the thread anyway, STILL with no sources offered. Why?

Pompous does NOT equal polite. Neither does condescending. But she buggered off anyway - as is her way.

Since you have not, would you like to contribute to the actual discussion of why humans are so brutal toward EACH OTHER, when it's really NOT NECESSARY to actual survival?

The TOPIC of the thread is the Muriquis ability to cooperate, and live in peace with each other, as opposed to the Human primates, who have "reason" but do not exercise it in cooperating with each other, OR the planet in general.

MANY scientists have established, for some time now, that humanity's impact on the world has wrought IRREVERSIBLE changes in ocean chemistry, speciation, and radiation. This is indisputable. They have been debating whether to state officially or not, that HUMAN ACTIVITY has ushered in a new "era" - the Anthropocene.

The Anthropocene Debate:
Marking Humanity’s Impact
Is human activity altering the planet on a scale comparable to major geological events of the past? Scientists are now considering whether to officially designate a new geological epoch to reflect the changes that homo sapiens have wrought: the Anthropocene.

e360.yale.edu...

In a recent paper titled “The New World of the Anthropocene,” which appeared in the journal Environmental Science and Technology, a group of geologists listed more than a half dozen human-driven processes that are likely to leave a lasting mark on the planet — lasting here understood to mean likely to leave traces that will last tens of millions of years. These include: habitat destruction and the introduction of invasive species, which are causing widespread extinctions; ocean acidification, which is changing the chemical makeup of the seas; and urbanization, which is vastly increasing rates of sedimentation and erosion.

Human activity, the group wrote, is altering the planet “on a scale comparable with some of the major events of the ancient past. Some of these changes are now seen as permanent, even on a geological time-scale.”

So, now that we have that established - that man is PART of nature, and is reckless and irresponsible about it, to the point of permanently ALTERING the Earth itself - how about you provide sources that actually DEBUNK the article?

It stands on its own. Humanity is a scourge. We have a CHOICE - respect our environment, or abuse it. Respect our cohabitants, or destroy them. Next you want to try to claim that a comet crashing into Earth or a Volcanic Eruption can do those things also? PEOPLE are not comets or volcanoes; they are consumers, destroyers, and defilers. As for beetle species being "plowed to oblivion" - the argument can be made that there are enough BEETLES in the world that we wouldn't NEED to farm or raise meat. They can be eaten; many aboriginal tribes do eat grubs, etc. - and in Asia (your stomping ground), scorpions, grasshoppers, etc. Or is this a lie? No, it isn't.

The Industrial Age entered, and the Earth's integrity has suffered ever since.

I give you the Amazon jungle tribe, who have now (finally) been left to live the way they WANT to, WITHOUT industry, or technology, or "civilized" societies. They've SEEN it, and said, "erm, NO THANK YOU. Leave us alone." They live in harmony with, and as STEWARDS of, their habitat.

Just because people CAN do something, doesn't mean they SHOULD - and that's what I mean by people "who know better."

reply to post by wildtimes

The only person being rude on this thread is you, wildtimes. Tinkerpeach was perfectly courteous. So was I. You seem to have taken our disagreement personally.

you started YOUR response with "oh, it's you, wildtimes,"

Actually, what I said is 'Ah, I see it's you with a new avatar'. I struggle to comprehend how you interpret that as discourteous.

Look up the bonobo... interesting read..

In Africa they lived and evolved on one side of the Congo river with Chimps and humans lived and evolved on the other side. They are much like the monkeys you speak of, and it is suggested they didn't evolve in a competing world. Chimps and humans are very violent where the bonobos were separated from chimps about a million years ago and form as a different species.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Bonobos have also been studied as examples of altruistic species, you are right. Thanks for mentioning that! I didn't know about the "wrong side of the river" thing..