"September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" It's not rocket science-COMMON SENSE!! VS DENIAL!!

reply to post by signalfire


So the plane had no effect and the collapses starting exactly at impact = explosives. Hmmm.

I though I was going to be warned before a new truther 'buzzword' was used.

So, symmetrical pancake, gravity collapse and freefall speed replaced 'nonothermite' and controlled demolition.

The problem is simple. You just don't have the experience to understand research, investigation and the deductive form of reasoning. It's all part of a formula known as the scientific method.

You simply can't start, or reach a conclusion, of an investigation by starting at point D without explaining point A, B, or C, and a detailed annotation of how you reached point D. It commonly taught in middle school to 12 year old's, and it's called Who, What, When, Where and how.

You said the towers were ' blown up' during mid collapse so explain

Who did it
What did they use to do it
When did they do it
Where did they do it
And how did they do it

That is the entire problem about making statements without a chain of evidence. Until those 5 simple occurrences are explained the statement is inherit.

Flatcoat
That was the only filing cabinet found out of thousands.

care to show a valid source for that claim....

hellobruce

Flatcoat
That was the only filing cabinet found out of thousands.

care to show a valid source for that claim....

Care to show images of other filing cabinets other than the one in the link?

reply to post by Flatcoat


Video of recovery site at Fresh Kills showing some of the objects recovered from the debris

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

New York State Museum

www.nysm.nysed.gov...

File cabinet survived only because was in basement and avoid being crushed and then burned

www.liveleak.com...

Flatcoat
Care to show images of other filing cabinets other than the one in the link?

You made the claim, it is up to you to back that claim up, not for others to disprove it... which you seem unable to do!

hellobruce

Flatcoat
Care to show images of other filing cabinets other than the one in the link?

You made the claim, it is up to you to back that claim up, not for others to disprove it... which you seem unable to do!

I can show you countless images without filing cabinets.......can you show me any with ?

spooky24
I though I was going to be warned before a new truther 'buzzword' was used.

So, symmetrical pancake, gravity collapse and freefall speed replaced 'nonothermite' and controlled demolition.

The problem is simple. You just don't have the experience to understand research, investigation and the deductive form of reasoning. It's all part of a formula known as the scientific method.

You simply can't start, or reach a conclusion, of an investigation by starting at point D without explaining point A, B, or C, and a detailed annotation of how you reached point D. It commonly taught in middle school to 12 year old's, and it's called Who, What, When, Where and how.

You said the towers were ' blown up' during mid collapse so explain

Who did it
What did they use to do it
When did they do it
Where did they do it
And how did they do it

That is the entire problem about making statements without a chain of evidence. Until those 5 simple occurrences are explained the statement is inherit.

Gawd, I'm getting so sick of your bloody little face.

I HAVE posted numerous links to 'how'; for the nth time, read Jeff Prager's emagazine available for free on line, it explains it all. It's 200+ pages so I presume you're too busy here posting drivel to go over there and read it. 'Who' is still up in the air and will require a few jury trials that don't seem forthcoming.

By 'blown up in mid collapse' since you can't be bothered to even understand the terms I used, here it is; does this look like something gravity does?

mid collapse

signalfire
does this look like something gravity does?

Yes, it does actually - why do you think it does not?

Mini nuclear weapons being used.... funny how even most truthers ridicule that as well!

It is as silly as claiming beam weapons were used, or holographic planes, or thermite was used....

It hard for me to criticize persons who are trying to make a buck-considering the dead end the publishing business has become. So, if this guy can get people to buy his book more power to him.

Basically he is saying:

There were no planes-but if there were they were remote controlled drones. Got to love that cop out.

The Bush administration, Wall street bankers, the military elite and Moose and Squirrel got together to pull off the Financial fraud of all time by manipulating stocks and buying shares of the private company that...........get ready.....set off nuclear bombs below both towers. To get rid of witnesses they devised a scheme in which micropulverized(new truther buzzword) concrete and microfragments(another one) of human bodies wiped out all the people at ground zero who breathed it in and only killed the ones that knew about the nuclear bombs.

This is some good stuff. I'm just getting started so here is more. The Pentagon was hit by a mini nuclear devise on a missile that crashed into the building as people were..........distracted...and thought they saw a plane. A secret chamber was built under the towers when they were constructed so the financial fraud could be pulled off.....with nuclear bombs...when the time was right.

For the next update we will hear about the FBI's involvement in this scam.

Maybe he will make enough so I don't have to support him with food stamps and earned income credit.

By the way you can be a insulting as you want-not going to bother me in the slightest.

Gawd, I'm getting so sick of your bloody little face.

You can always leave ATS for a while if you get sick of the posters.

reply to post by spooky24


You obviously didn't read the book; for one thing, HE ISN'T SELLING IT. It's available for free, on line and is utterly without copyright. He encourages everyone to copy it for free wherever they want to.

That alone proves you didn't read it.

The rest of your ridiculous post is utter nonsense, like all your other posts.

Do you truly enjoy making up garbage when so much is at stake? What's wrong with you?

Mr Prager, a publisher, had a falling out with Dr. Judy Wood over the issue of plagiarism. He released his free work in order to ruin the sales of Dr. Woods book-if he was successful is undetermined.

His lone thesis is all 3 towers were destroyed by nuclear devises for finical profit. He list the Office of Naval intelligence along with the Securities Exchange Commission as the plotters and the Bush Administration was responsible for the cover up.

He states that there was no motive 'whatsoever' that this was done to incite war and enslave Americans with laws passed afterwards. This is the main provocateur in all Dr. Woods books. The falling out and plagiarism charges stem from this disagreement over the prime motivation for the attacks.

Also, both Dr. Wood and Jim Feltizer accused Mr Prager of being a 'government shill' and trying to force insurrection inside the 'truth seeker' movement.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by jhn7537

 

the 20 minutes difference really doesnt refute the claim being made.

That is not the point

The point is, that ATS is full of people who believe 9/11 was a false flag yet many of them clearly don't even have a basic understanding of the facts pertaining to the official story. How can these people possibly presume that the offical narrative is a lie when they dont even know the most basic details of it?

Now yes, I know this does not apply to everyone who refutes the offical story, I am not saying that, all i am trying to say is that some of you really need to go and review the facts for yourselfs.

I think "believing 9/11 was a false flag" and "not having even a basic understanding of the facts" goes hand in hand. Don't you?

They sure do.

I had no idea that so many 'truthers' know so little about the event. It was OSOC here that pointed that out to me. It goes the same for the skimmers who write the books. There is a reason for that which explains why lack of knowledge starts at the top and filters down to the bottom.

Basically, it's simple. If you try to make money by convincing people that the government is nothing but murders, plotters, conspirators and a host of other derogatory accusations, then you have shut all doors of information forever. All the documentation about the event is in control of the government, in the National Archives, some 300,000 documents and admittance to the Archives in not a democracy. They let in who they want to let in.

Take David Griffin for an example. Again, no one is criticizing him for trying to make money. He has just released another book-that is 7 altogether. The book promises 'new shocking evidence' and 'The complete timeline of the secret plot' along with 'a respected scientist agrees with the conclusions' and of course 'never seen before secret files' ending with 'a landmark accomplishment'.



I have to admit-I bit or I took a bite. After 15 pages of acknowledgments about the skill of the writer-and his adeptness at finding the truth you finally get to see what all the hoopla is about.

When I turn the 1st page of chapter one-I see the same old tired photo of Flight 175 and the 'secret bulge' (that is of course the wheel well) followed by, you guessed it, nanothermite timed released explosive from a radio controlled plane.

I really can't believe it but the whole thing is just a rehash of the same old tired illogical 'truth'

The bright spot is that he discovered that the plot started many years before September 2001 as when part owner of the Texas Rangers George Bush gave a speech to upper management in which he said: "I'm going to take them down from the top and crumble them down to the ground in one swoop!" He was referring to the Rangers front office and it's mistakes-however the 'new evidence of the plot's beginning' Bush(he calls him a derogatory term here) started to plan his financial windfall here.

That is the reason so many are clueless.

spooky24
That is the reason so many are clueless.

It sounds then like you are of the "they believe these conspiracy stories becuase they are being shamelessly swindled by con artists" rather than "they believe these conspiracy stories becuase they are gullible as hell". Personally I think it is a combination of both.

Let's face it, there is only one reason why people would even be going to the conspiracy mongors for their information to begin with; they usually subscribe to one or more OTHER conspiracies and they are a ready made audience for more conspiracies. From what I've seen here on ATS, almost every 9/11 truther preached about some other sinister secret plot to take over the world; LBJ being behind the JFK assassasination, the moon landing being faked, AIDS being invented by the CIA to kill all the black people in Africa, whatever; so when they look at the 9/11 attack they are more inclined to interpret it as being yet another sinister secret plot to take over the world than other people are.

That means that what we're seeing really isn't research. It's a Rorschach test in that such people are interpreting these series of unrelated events as having patterns that reflect their own antiestablishment outlook. I will admit I myself might be guilty of clouding my judgement with my own outlook too, as my own opinion of gov't is that of a pack of incompetent boobs, and as such the gov't is simply incapable of pulling off any such 9/11 conspiracy even if they wanted to. The difference is that I can come up with as many concrete case examples of the gov't behaving like a bunch of incompetent boobs as you'd like (cough cough Obamacare cough). Can the conspiracy theorists provide even ONE case where anyone was able to rig two gigantic skyscrapers with hidden demolitions without anyone noticing anything?

That is very true however the 'cluelessness' is a defensive measure as well. Here is an example. Buzz words or phrases cover up lack of knowledge.

The Iraq War

Bush lied illegal war for oil

Q.What provinces saw the heaviest fighting?

A. Bush lied illegal war for oil

Q. How many times did the city of Fallujah change hands in combat?

A. Bush lied illegal war for oil

Q. What type of government leads Iraq today?

A. Bush lied illegal war for oil

Q. alqedia was defeated because

a. The troop surge
b. Regional warlords joined American forces
c. they were told to abort by Bin Laden
d. their slaughter of innocents turned Muslims against them
e. Bush lied illegal war for oil

Of course e is the answer.

It's a defensive measure to cover up the fact that they don't have the slightest idea about the war in Iraq. Just like 9/11 with the buzzwords nonothermite, freefall, robot planes and Bush lied illegal war for oil

spooky24
It's a defensive measure to cover up the fact that they don't have the slightest idea about the war in Iraq. Just like 9/11 with the buzzwords nonothermite, freefall, robot planes and Bush lied illegal war for oil

It sounds like the more that buzzwords are used, the more they become "facts" of their own. Witness the whole gun control propaganda campaign; the term "Assault Weapon" was originally just some made up media slang term that had no tangible legal definition, like "saturday night special" and "cop killer bullets". The gun control crowd siezed onto this and began repeating it so often that "assault weapon" actually became a thing that lawmakers attempted (and sometimes succeeded) to pass legislation on..and yet if you still ask two different people what an "assault weapon" is you'll get two different answers. We had one dingbat politician here who attempted to classify every firearm that contains more than ONE round as an assault weapon. That old one hundred year old six shooter you inherited from your great great grandfather has now become an assaut weapon. When foolishness is used as an input we're only going to get foolishness an an output.

The first step to resolving any problem is to recogize the problem actually exists. We're seeing the conspiracy people using buzzwords to the point where they've grown into entire alternative realities. What are some of the ways this can be addressed?

As far as guns are concerned other that restored vintage guns I don't even own a working firearm. No need to really as the first rule of rural living is putting the local law on the payroll. All police officers-especially beat cops and patrol officers expect free stuff-coffee, donuts and such. However the Indian girl that runs the little market gives them free red bull and cigs with the occasional lottery ticket. Here it's the occasional rick of firewood or hunting privilege along with respect they deserve. This flys against the normal southern logic however I consider it's someone else job to protect me with a gun.

It's interesting how the 'buzzwords' you mentioned were mostly started by the media-in accordance to their various political leaning. The media has no designation, either political or otherwise, when it comes to 9/11. A media annalist Brian Monahan wrote an incredible book about the media and the morning of 9/11. It is one of the most interesting book concerning 9/11 that I have-and I have hundreds. Part of that is my stupidity about the media, television, movies, all the silly gossip and the personalty that goes with that. It's unexplainable in depth however I did write the review for Amazon(and made a few more enemies in the media) and found that my malcontent was the result of NOT having exposure to the network and cable news that most people have.

I was sickened by the horrific obsession with the people forced to jump and the one-up-upmship of the 'Body Count' in which each network tried to outdo the other by making it higher and higher-upwards of 60,000 on CNN-even though they knew there were less than 10,000 people in the towers that morning due to a local election and a longer than normal backups in the tunnels. Also, as many a 500 people were saved because they slept late after watching the the NY Giants on Monday Night Football that was on until after midnight.

The connection to your buzzwords is the media will hear nothing about any kind of conspiracy or anything else, to dismay their production of the events of 9/11, and the words and phrases exist only in the forgotten realm of truther websites. In contrast, your 'assault weapons', although false terminology, will live forever in the media with the sides of the gun debate.

spooky24
The connection to your buzzwords is the media will hear nothing about any kind of conspiracy or anything else, to dismay their production of the events of 9/11, and the words and phrases exist only in the forgotten realm of truther websites. In contrast, your 'assault weapons', although false terminology, will live forever in the media with the sides of the gun debate.

In truth, it makes no difference whether you possess a gun or not, as the phenomina we're seeing still applies; some event or another occurs and people with self centered motives exploit the event so they can market their own personal agenda.

-With firearms, a gang member uses a stolen gun to murder another gang member over profitable drug territory and some politician who detests guns uses it to implement gun control that only applies to owners of legally owned guns. This may make people feel better because it gives the illusion of addressing the issue, but in actuality it does absolutely nothing because the "solution" the politician implements does not address gang violence, the drug trade, or even illegal guns that caused the problem to begin with.

-Similarly, with the 9/11 attack, nineteen religious zealots come up with a plan to attack the US in a way noone ever thought of before, and some character who has an absurdly unrealistic antiestablishment outlook on life uses it to peddle sinister secret plots to take over the world and calls for "an independent investigation". This likewise may make people feel better because it gives the illusion of addressing the issue, but it likewise does absolutely nothing to foster the understanding of the religious zealotry that caused the problem to begin with.

In short, these people pushing these political agendas are NOT part of the solution. They're part of the problem. Instead of addressing the actual factors that caused the event these people are intentionally pulling us away from an honest examination of the problem and are bogging us down in utterly pointless arguments and the original problem continues to fester. Demanding an investigation into whether Lloyd England has any secret government connections is as utterly pointless as demanding to register deer rifles as assault weapons. I think this is ultimately my biggest gripe about the 9/11 conspiracy theorists...and gun control pushing politicians, for that matter.

But, as you pointed out, the 9/11 conspiracy movement is dying out. Is this the case that it is genuinely unpopular or is it really the case that Alex Jones and the rest of the conspiracy mongors simply don't have anywhere near the media distribution system as the gun control pundits do and they simply don't have the ability to reach as many people?