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Until then, peace!
Jesus never uttered the words, "I am your God," but to say that this means He never wished to communicate His divinity because He didn't use those exact words is a silly semantics argument
Jesus being God would have been kind of a big deal. All he had to do was declare he was God. But he didn't.
Actually its not semantics... Its calling him a liar by omission. IF Jesus was the ONE true God he would have said "I Am God"... To his closest followers.
Christianity isn't a stand-alone religion. It is based on the Israelite religion, that was essentially monotheistic. If the trinity was a truth about God, we would have read of it in the older books, starting from Genesis.
Even if you look at the Christian view of the trinity... It is believed this trinity is three equal parts of ONE. Jesus said he was not equal to his Father... Paul made that statement... Jesus did not...
I've been through this arguement hundreds of times... The only decent arguement for him being God is the verse from Thomas... But we can also see him letting people believe what they will on other occasions as well... PIlate asked him if he was the king of the jews... And his answer was "you say i am"
If Jesus was claiming he was God, then he would have said "I am your God"... instead of acknowledging that he was honored by the One the Jews called God. (John 8:54)
But you don't even accept most of the Bible. Your opinions are as valid as an atheists who rejects all of the Bible.
You need to accept the entire Bible - starting from Adam - to be a Christian. You don't... so you are NOT a Christian by Biblical standards.
you are clearly having difficulty comprehending the difference between being of God and being God himself.
I'm guessing John 5:30 is missing in your copy of the Bible.
Jesus says in John 10:11-18 that he is the Good Shepherd. When you read this passage along with Ezekiel 34:1-16, you can see that Jesus was identifying Himself with God, who pronounced Himself Shepherd over Israel .
IF Jesus was the ONE true God he would have said "I Am God"... To his closest followers.
And he didn't say I AM the I AM either... It was a reference to his preexistance... But not a declaration of himself being God.
If the concept of the trinity were true, then the Israelites themselves would have been aware of their God being a trinity... but we know from Genesis to the Gospels that the Israelite religion always believed in God being One... not "one and three", as presented by people believing in the trinity.
I'll also add that trying to tell a Christian Jesus was not God is the same as trying to tell a muslim their prophet was the tooth fairy...
many Christians believe the bible is "Gods word"... Thus anything within the book is automatically true
The bible itself says that it doesn't contain all that Jesus said.
He DID say He was God. I gave the quotes.
You want certain exact words ... pinning Christ down to say what you, from the year 2013, would want to hear. But he said it in the way that those of His time period would understand.
- He claimed the I AM title from Moses time.
The people knew exactly what He was claiming .. that He was God ... and they tried to kill Him for it.
He didn't correct them and say 'I"m talking about pre-existence'.
- And the Jews believed that only God could be in pre-existence.
And frankly ... this quote seems to fit the BUDDHIST view of Jesus being a Buddha .. a soul that has reached nirvana reincarnating and coming back to Earth for the good of everyone (not his own karma).
The bible says both. IF someone decides to believe the bible as a whole, then they have to believe that Jesus was both because both are in scripture. As for Muhammad being the tooth fairy ... that insults the tooth fairy. The tooth fairy doesn't lie and murder people like Muhammad did.
Jesus may or may not have been God incarnate ... but scripture shows that He claimed both.
If someone is going to toss around scripture quotes to try to prove Jesus was man ...
then they have to toss around the quotes showing Jesus claimed to be God.
If a person uses some ... they've gotta' use all.
And as far as I know, the Catholics believe that a lot of it is myth and allegory.
Genesis is clearly scientifically wrong.
Noahs Ark was clearly stolen from the Summerians and adapted by the Jews.
Moses leading slaves out of Egypt ... historical findings show that they weren't slaves.
The ten commandments from God? No. They were here for hundreds of years before Moses.
He gave allusions to his divinity, which I am not disputing... He was most definitely divine.
He used the term I AM, it was not a declaration of him being the one God... It was him stating that he pre-existed Abraham...
Technically only the orthodox Jews believed in Only one life... and he was far from a "good Jew"
Not everything the jews believed is what is true in reality.. their religion was a mess from the beginning.
Why people tie the OT in to the NT is beyond me aside from a few prophetic statements.
If you wish to see it that way ... okay. Scripture scholars say it's both. I agree with them. But, to slip the Buddhist teaching in again, this fits the Buddhist view that He could have been a Buddha. I can see their point on this as well. He fits their description of a Buddha.
There are a bunch of references in the bible of reincarnation - IMHO
That's why I reject the Old Testament ... most of it is borrowed myth and folk lore.
Nearly none of it can be proven as fact. And a lot has been disproven. Genesis for example.
reply to post by FlyersFan
I didn't really address anything about him being fully man or fully anything else, I was mostly referring to Jesus talking not only about the Father, but about "GOD" as a separate, unique and different person to himself, throughout his mission on earth. So unless there are two or more Gods (i.e. polytheism), it doesn't work.
I told you, and ye do not believe; the works that I do in the name of my Father, these testify concerning me; but ye do not believe, for ye are not of my sheep, according as I said to you: My sheep my voice do hear, and I know them, and they follow me, and life age-during I give to them, and they shall not perish -- to the age, and no one shall pluck them out of my hand; my Father, who hath given to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck out of the hand of my Father; I and the Father are one.