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As Seymour Hersh revealed in his groundbreaking 1968 reporting, we provided the South Vietnamese with the lethal arsenic-containing gas DM [4], claiming it was a “tear” gas for riot control, though the Field Manual clearly stated "not approved in any operations where deaths are not acceptable.” Throughout the war, Hersh and others continued to document the US use of gases, incendiaries and Agent Orange and other herbicidals to destroy not only Vietnam’s jungles but its food supply—a crime against humanity and nature.
After the Baath regime in Syria had allegedly used chemical weapons against the civilian population in the suburbs of Damascus, the US decision makers accused the Syrian government of breaking an international agreement reached at the end of WW I. According to this agreement, chemical weapons are not permitted to be employed in any sort of military conflict. From the way the US leadership speaks, someone who is not familiar with world affairs may think that chemical weapons have not been used in wars from the end of WW I until the attacks of the Baath regime on August 21, 2013. Contrary to the image the US political leadership has been presenting recently, from WW II to today, the US has the lead in the world in the development, production and deployment of chemical weapons on both military forces and civilian populations at home and across the world.
Originally posted by wrabbit2000
reply to post by AsarAlubat
With all due respect...that's an exceptionally biased and spun article. It takes a very creative interpretation of war and weapons of war to call Napalm a chemical weapon. By that definition, every arsonist is a violator of the Chemical Weapons laws and those who actually take life by accelerant fueled fire are outright killers with WMD.
Originally posted by FyreByrd
There is the link to the entire article (which is well referenced):
www.alternet.org...
It speaks of Agent Orange, Naplam, Reagan & Bush 1's role in providing Iraq with material and know-how for "dual use" chemicals, Projects Tailwind & SHAD, Depleted Uranium....
The article is packed full of information on US Chemical attacks on civilian populations and our own and other nations soldiers. Where is the Honor in that?
Originally posted by wrabbit2000
WP rounds are Chem Weapons, the treaty has no meaning whatsoever...as White Phosphorous is not a rare thing to find among Military supplies around the world.
With all due respect...that's an exceptionally biased and spun article. It takes a very creative interpretation of war and weapons of war to call Napalm a chemical weapon. By that definition, every arsonist is a violator of the Chemical Weapons laws and those who actually take life by accelerant fueled fire are outright killers with WMD.
reply to post by TheEthicalSkeptic
when used as the active warhead itself, white phosphorous is a chemical burn agent as well, which can be classified as a chemical warfare agent.
Originally posted by 19KTankCommander
reply to post by TheEthicalSkeptic
when used as the active warhead itself, white phosphorous is a chemical burn agent as well, which can be classified as a chemical warfare agent.
I don't agree that Willy P (Military Slang for WP) is a chemical warfare agent, reason why is, chemical warfare has three type of chemical agents, and they are Blood, Nerve and Blister agents all have different effects and uses, for example some you don't want to use in dry conditions because the effects would be minimal, but others like in a dam area would work better than normal.
Willy P was designed and is used for destroying equipment, bunkers and signaling (marking). In all my years I never heard it's (willy P) use for anything except what I mentioned.
WASHINGTON (AFX) - The US today defended the use of white phosphorus munitions against insurgents in Iraq last year but denied civilians were targeted. The toxic agent was used during what a US army journal called 'shake and bake' missions against insurgents in the battle for Fallujah last year. "
The British Army introduced the first factory-built WP grenades in late 1916. During World War II, white phosphorus mortar bombs, shells, rockets and grenades were used extensively by American, Commonwealth, and, to a lesser extent, Japanese forces, in both smoke-generating and antipersonnel roles. The British military also used white phosphorus bombs against Kurdish villagers and Al-Habbaniyah in Al-Anbar province during the Great Iraqi Revolution of 1920.
With even more incredibility... setting fire in a building with a gallon of gas and a road flare is not the same as dropping a cluster of napalm canisters on it from an attack aircraft.
Originally posted by wrabbit2000
reply to post by AsarAlubat
With all due respect...that's an exceptionally biased and spun article. It takes a very creative interpretation of war and weapons of war to call Napalm a chemical weapon. By that definition, every arsonist is a violator of the Chemical Weapons laws and those who actually take life by accelerant fueled fire are outright killers with WMD. :shk:
Similarly... If WP rounds are Chem Weapons, the treaty has no meaning whatsoever...as White Phosphorous is not a rare thing to find among Military supplies around the world. Agent Orange was pretty crappy of everyone and the spraying over S.E. Asia was very poor judgement ...
...but then, so was dumping Malathion all over the people of Southern California the to get the fruit fly. I stood below those damned helicopters while we got rained on. A friend of mine put an arrow INTO one of them we know hit because a news report that night on TV mentioned it landed with one. (Oh..the things we do in youth, eh?).
Real *WEAPONS* though? Well, I'm not aware of the U.S. using a recognized chemical weapons agent in wartime against anyone. Could be that we have and it never got out .... and it could be we just made enough to kill the planet a few times over and are still struggling with how to dispose of it all, just as it appears.
Originally posted by wrabbit2000
I think the Chemical weapon is pretty well defined by the substance that is deadly or causes injury by mere contact. Physical, or breathing. Whatever. If it has a requirement for protective gear to be in the same area with, exposed? It's a chemical weapon.
The method of death isn't chemical, it's fire.
Originally posted by FyreByrd
in my opinion, the weapons that don't kill outright (your definition) are more henious and unethical. They cause untold pain and suffering to cilivian and military alike. They are profitable however, and dilute any responsibility quite nicely however.
Lung damage or lack of oxygen may not be the only avenue leading to death.
Originally posted by wrabbit2000
Originally posted by FyreByrd
in my opinion, the weapons that don't kill outright (your definition) are more henious and unethical. They cause untold pain and suffering to cilivian and military alike. They are profitable however, and dilute any responsibility quite nicely however.
If they were meant to kill, they were weapons. You state you'd include Malathion. I'd love to see that pursued as what I think it was. Negligent use of dangerous chemicals over people. It wasn't a weapon since killing people wasn't at all meant to happen there. That makes an enormous difference.
Not least of which because a chemical weapons production line isn't directly liable for the harm those 'products' cause any more than Sierra can be sued for what their bullets eventually do. NEGLIGENCE however? Well now... That can be worked on clear back into the company that made the garbage, for supplying something harmful that we were all told wouldn't be. I like your definition more, but it's not a real or legal definition of a chemical weapon.
It's not viable to just start changing what we call things with no regard to how it's actually defined, IMHO.