Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake - PART 2

This is great. I would pop into part 1 every now and then but it was too long to keep up with.
I'll make a concerted effort to keep up with this one.

I'd like to thank all the regulars on the old one for your ongoing efforts and hope you all stay with this new one.

And as to 2020 Olympics in Tokyo ...

I'm gobsmacked

and sad

This herring is really "pickled".

SOURCE

Fukushima Radiation Causing Canadian Herring to 'Hemorrhage from Their Eyes'

Stocks of seafood are also likely to be affected in future, as the effects of the radiation are often severe enough to kill those fish affected: 100% of the herring caught by scientist Alexandra Morton in Canadian waters recently were found to be hemorrhaging extensively from their gills, fins, eyes and chins.

Storing any kind of nuclear waste anywhere was always a risk and remains a risk.

There are many nuclear storage facilities around the world and if any disaster hit them, chances are, they would have similar associated risks.

The siting of the reactor in question was probably even more risky than many but this was always a known risk. Governments of the world didn't heed that risk and the stuff is there. There is barely a place on Earth that wouldn't be affected if any major meteorological or earthquake / volcanic event happened.

Geological and meteorological events are continually happening and whilst there was more stability in these areas when nuclear sites were first built, the chances are that the increasingly extreme conditions we are seeing are on an upward trend, generally and will possibly increase a lot given the position of the Solar System, hence the increased risk.

Now is when all nuclear sites should be looking at alternative safety measures and contingency plans.

Fukushima: health disaster or PR fail?

One thing about having a nuclear accident in a rich country is that at least there is going to be good medical care and long-term monitoring. The repair and clean-up operation is another matter, of course — which is why Japan is currently under pressure to accept help from abroad in fixing the appalling mess caused by the three reactor meltdowns at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant.

But having great monitoring, assessment and medical treatment of citizens is one thing. It is quite another making sure information is communicated to the public clearly and openly. That is something at which neither the plant’s operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co. (Tepco), nor the Japanese government have succeeded at all well. And without good communication, fear and misinformation about radiation can understandably grow.

I was talking about this last week with Gerry Thomas, who runs the Chernobyl Tissue Bank (CTB) at Imperial College London. The CTB collects and analyzes samples of tissue from people exposed to radiation after the Chernobyl nuclear disaster in the USSR (present-day Ukraine) in 1986, and monitors the occurrence of thyroid cancer in contaminated areas.

About Fukushima, she is dismissive of the health risks. That might seem cavalier to people in the Tohoku region of northeastern Honshu who are worried about radiation contamination, but Prof. Thomas has seen what happened in Chernobyl — which released far more radiation than Fukushima has to date. “Fukushima is nothing compared to Chernobyl,” she told me. “It really is nothing, it’s a tenth of the dose of cesium.” (For the World Nuclear Association report on this, see (link tracking not allowed)/17urZKd)

Read the whole: Source

The link to the only valid Estimations of the Fukushima Accident: Nuclear Report

Tokyo Olympic games in 2020 -Over the horizon of contaminated water

IOC decided to hold the Olympic games in Tokyo in 2020. I think it’s more rational to hold the decommissioning technology Olympic in Fukushima plant. I’m afraid they may conceal Fukushima information more strictly for Tokyo Olympic. Contaminated water is not the only problem related to the Olympic games but we must be aware of these two points now.

i have to agree with Mochi on this one i mean who in their right minds would approve the games to be in Tokyo at this point in time, oh yes the Japanese/tepco propaganda mill would.

Japanese government states the sea contamination level is not serious. However, they should add “as far as they monitor”. The thing is they measure only a couple of sorts of radioactive material among tens in the sea. They only focus on the radionuclide, Cesium-134, 137 and sometimes Strontium-90 and Tritium. They hardly (almost never) analyze the seawater for other numerous types of radioactive material, which are more harmful. Also, the sampling locations are irrationally limited. More importantly, radioactive water -Tritium- has never been tested in tap water, river water, lake water, and rain of Tokyo. Radioactive water is BEING discharged from the plant even at THIS moment. Tokyo metropolitan gov releases radiation data but it doesn’t indicate this radioactive water density. "You need to fix the toilet, but the plumber is measuring the humidity of your room and saying “ok, there’s no problem”.

fukushima-diary.com...

that was also a concern for all of us as well, why are they not measuring the really nasty stuff, simple answer i suppose, they are measuring it and are not reporting it. love the joke at the end, priceless.


wanted to add yet another gem from crapco.

Tepco “There’s always water flowing in the drain from the leaked tank area to the Pacific”

n the press conference of 9/4/2013, Tepco’s spokesman commented water is always flowing in the drain to the Pacific. The drain runs around the tank area, which experienced the 300m3 leakage. Fukushima Diary confirmed it’s directly connected to the Pacific without any purification facilities etc.. From their announcement, 300m3 of leakage started at least this July. The leaked water was flowing in the drain to the Pacific. They don’t plan to dam the drain either. (cf, Tepco “We are not going to dam up the drain that the leaked water flowed into”

well i don't know about you but that makes me feel better knowing they have such a stern handle on these issues, when in doubt let it drain, let it drain, let it drain.

Originally posted by LittleBlackEagle

Tokyo Olympic games in 2020 -Over the horizon of contaminated water

IOC decided to hold the Olympic games in Tokyo in 2020. I think it’s more rational to hold the decommissioning technology Olympic in Fukushima plant. I’m afraid they may conceal Fukushima information more strictly for Tokyo Olympic. Contaminated water is not the only problem related to the Olympic games but we must be aware of these two points now.

i have to agree with Mochi on this one i mean who in their right minds would approve the games to be in Tokyo at this point in time, oh yes the Japanese/tepco propaganda mill would.

Japanese government states the sea contamination level is not serious. However, they should add “as far as they monitor”. The thing is they measure only a couple of sorts of radioactive material among tens in the sea. They only focus on the radionuclide, Cesium-134, 137 and sometimes Strontium-90 and Tritium. They hardly (almost never) analyze the seawater for other numerous types of radioactive material, which are more harmful. Also, the sampling locations are irrationally limited. More importantly, radioactive water -Tritium- has never been tested in tap water, river water, lake water, and rain of Tokyo. Radioactive water is BEING discharged from the plant even at THIS moment. Tokyo metropolitan gov releases radiation data but it doesn’t indicate this radioactive water density. "You need to fix the toilet, but the plumber is measuring the humidity of your room and saying “ok, there’s no problem”.

fukushima-diary.com...

that was also a concern for all of us as well, why are they not measuring the really nasty stuff, simple answer i suppose, they are measuring it and are not reporting it. love the joke at the end, priceless.

wanted to add yet another gem from crapco.

Tepco “There’s always water flowing in the drain from the leaked tank area to the Pacific”

n the press conference of 9/4/2013, Tepco’s spokesman commented water is always flowing in the drain to the Pacific. The drain runs around the tank area, which experienced the 300m3 leakage. Fukushima Diary confirmed it’s directly connected to the Pacific without any purification facilities etc.. From their announcement, 300m3 of leakage started at least this July. The leaked water was flowing in the drain to the Pacific. They don’t plan to dam the drain either. (cf, Tepco “We are not going to dam up the drain that the leaked water flowed into”

well i don't know about you but that makes me feel better knowing they have such a stern handle on these issues, when in doubt let it drain, let it drain, let it drain.

edit on 8-9-2013 by LittleBlackEagle because: (no reason given)

lol by the time 2020 comes along i dont even know if tokyo will still be there for an olympics.

reply to post by qmantoo

closing the thread shows a flaw in this method of communicating. there needs to be some kind of Cliff's Notes or summary of the thread. maybe something running alongside the page that condenses the whole thing somehow. maybe the mods could do it..... better yet I'd rather have an unbiased AI program do it

Originally posted by Netties Hermit


And as to 2020 Olympics in Tokyo ...

keeps their hopes up for a future

Okay, found the new thread, I was starting to have the shakes.

Tokyo wins 2020 Olympics.

www.chicagotribune.com...

"BUENOS AIRES, Argentina — With a philosophy that seemed borrowed from Allstate commercials, Tokyo convinced the International Olympic Committee to give it the 2020 Summer Olympics.

“You’re in safe hands with Tokyo” was what the Japanese emphasized, actually using the words “safe pair of hands” as a bid theme. They referred to a $4.5 billion reserve fund already in place to cover Olympic cost contingencies and polls showing travelers think Tokyo is the safest city in the world."

And I wouldn't go there for all of the tea in China.

reply to post by matadoor


the propaganda mill is strong today.


i think "everyone" at this point realizes it aint never gonna happen in reality, more so i guess a bid to give the people of Japan hope that they have any future at all. although i do not agree with the lying they are doing, for this one issue i suppose it won't hurt anyone.

Originally posted by LittleBlackEagle
reply to post by matadoor

 

the propaganda mill is strong today.


i think "everyone" at this point realizes it aint never gonna happen in reality, more so i guess a bid to give the people of Japan hope that they have any future at all. although i do not agree with the lying they are doing, for this one issue i suppose it won't hurt anyone.

Imo. the Timeframe of 7 Years is okay,
have a look for Tepco's Roadmap: Shedules

reply to post by Human0815


Greetings,

Yes, having a roadmap is a good thing. In this situation though, it seems that primary goals and the means to accomplish those goals....are missing.

Maintaining stable reactor cooling is really only relevant if the nuclear fuel is still in the reactor. It isn't. We have confirmed nuclear meltdown of reactors 1, 2 and 3 and no one it seems can say exactly where the corium is or is going. The entire plan is geared toward treating the symptoms only and will not even touch the problems of the three melted cores...and the nuclear chain reaction that is growing exponentially beneath Fukushima...and the tons of radioactive fuel surrounding those burning nuclear coriums...waiting to....I'll let our more knowledgeable members quantify how big that new nuclear sun burning on earth could combine and become....I shudder to even think of it.

-Maintain stable reactor cooling and accumulated water processing and improve their credibility.
-Commence R&D and decontamination towards the removal of fuel debris
-Commence R&D of radioactive waste processing and disposal

The steps are also reliant on Research and Development, meaning we haven't invented a means to fix this yet. The solutions do not exist.

The roadmap is very professionally laid out with good use of white space to show intact reactor designs though.

One other concern is that when work is done at the plant....things like this happen....that aren't really highlighted in the map.

On Thursday, a Crane arm snaps while removing debris from Fukushima Unit 3.

Actually, upon further reading, TEPCO does acknowledge the omission and that the blueprint only deals with what they want to publicly address....it notes it in an asterisk, which is ironically derived from the Greek word for "little star."

* Material in which fuel and its cladding tubes etc. have melted and resolidified.

The three little stars melted down from Units 1, 2 and 3 aren't addressed by the blueprint, at least as far as I have been able to make out.

There are far more knowledgeable members here though who could add greatly to the discussion on TEPCO's blueprint.

On the bright side...today is Sunday movie day! Bring your own popcorn.

reply to post by DancedWithWolves


And we chive onto a new thread...enjoyed "movie day" DWW...I lived it first hand...

Note the date on this article and Japanese involvement:

www.tmia.com...

Unit 4 FPC skimmer surge tank level data is still very erratic. I monitor the data daily and something peculiar is going on.

And the sudden drop and then rise in the unit 4 temperature in the spent fuel pool:

38℃ (as of 11:00 , 9/6 )

34℃ (9/7 11:00 現在)

37℃ (9/8 11:00 現在)

Take a gander for yourselves...any speculation as to what is transpiring would be most welcome...

www.tepco.co.jp...

And just want to reiterate tremendous gratitude to all you folks on this thread....AC, Q, Mat, Silver, etc. and a big howdy to "Just Mike"...good to see ya back.

- Purple Chive

Oh boy! Shiny new home for us. Hello all and glad to see folks transiting the digital river. Nothing new to report, just thought I'd say thanks to all who made the transition happen. Let's not loose the knowledge base from the megathread, or forget all the contributions.

A lot o' people don't realize what's really going on. They view life as a bunch o' unconnected incidents 'n things. They don't realize that there's this, like, lattice o' coincidence that lays on top o' everything.

And if you know where that quote is from I'll give you a cookie!

reply to post by bottleslingguy


I agree...when a thread is closed for "unwieldlyness" the first post of part two should be a concise synopsis.(please take no offense Q :-) especially given the extremely accurate predictive nature of this thread and against MAJOR opposition (shill and troll wise ...big players were /are on the field here ) . not to mention that many MAJOR problems for the nuker industry/government/military international alliances were postulated exposed here and confirmed by time , investigation and university physicists (surface boiling being the HUGE problem for areva and nukers..one that trumps pool storage danger even as almost unimaginable as that seems...pool storage is death)

Within the first moth of this disaster multiple posters on the original thread had stated the containment failure was obvious.....

the NUker industry took over two years to reveal that and in the interim denied vehemently that it a) happened and pushed that B) it never ever could

The collective members of the original thread (sometimes coming to consensus from adversity ) determined that the # 3 reactor HAD A MAJOR "containment" failure , which blew the lid(s) and most of the core out from both primary and secondary "containment" at the first explosion

The very shady interconnection between the U.S. military/'government', it's control of the japanese nuclear industry (due to agreements signed after ww2 ) the NEED for them to cover up the extent of the problem and the resultant illumination of the connection to the entire global nuclear industry's scope, goals and willingness to deceive...no matter what the cost ( remember their slogan; ' the solution is dillution ") was EXTREMELY well documented and is now clearly fact.

The fact that fukushima is hundreds if not thousands of times more damaging than Chernobyl was clearly illuminated. Some of the highlights being : uranium/plutonium escaping directly into the environment (confirmed now scientifically) . thousands upon thousands of tons of radioactive material vaporizing ( due to core melt downs ) into high altitude seeking particles ( particles generally aerosols below ten microns ) that will be ( based on atomic bomb-testing data ) raining down for the next thirty to forty years.

One of the major lessons from fuku ( as discussed at length on the original thread) is that nuker plants worldwide HAVE NO PLAN FOR THEIR OVER FLOWING SPENT FUeL POOLS and since they must be cooled for decades ( at least ) the OTHER MAJOR LY IMPORTANT thing from the original thread is that most nuker plants DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH COOLING CAPACITY for even MINOR events .

The original thread ( with arnie and a bunch of other peoples help ( including the physics forum) ) exposed beyond a shadow of a doubt that Tepco had to play "whack-a-mole" because even if they had ALL of the generators working they had less than ten percent of the cooling radiators they needed ...and even those were leaking badly.

which leads me to the fact that Tepco has been dumping water into tthe ocean almost since day one as ...POLICY...they have not had any other option as the surface boiling ( from multiple core melt-downs) has been liberating so much radioactive waste into the cooling water that they cannot re-use it ...hence the dumping and storing problems we have seen ( and are seeing still after well over two years)

I am sure I am missing quite a bit but the theme here is that the original thread contained some amazing collective analysis that has ultimately proven correct ( much to our horror) and that beyond a doubt the governments/corporations( is there really any difference ) involved would rather kill many innocent people than sacrifice positions of power or profitability

...and the level of deceit from all the organizations involved is so criminal in nature that in the history of the human race this series of events will highlight our rock-bottom darkest hour as a species

Human0815 - your recent posts make me more and more uncomfortable. Almost like you are moving away from one side towards the side with the Japanese government and TEPCO on it. If you are Japanese, then you would probably be more useful to your countrymen and women by being on their side and helping them fight the injustice, half-truths, and cover-ups.

When you say

The link to the only valid Estimations of the Fukushima Accident: Nuclear Report

What does 'the only valid' mean in this context? (I am trying to remain polite here)

===================================
Computers are currently extremely bad at understanding the meaning of words and can only shorten by missing out parts of the original to create a summary. As far as I am aware, they cannot distil the essence of a paragraph into a sentence of a few words without human intervention.

I dont think it would be possible to summarise a thread of 1400 pages each with 19 or 20 posts on them. I am not sure how a thread such as this could be condensed any further than I have already done and linked to above, but if anyone has better ideas, then I will have a go at producing it. Of course the situation itself can be summarised regularly in just one post - maybe a monthly summary is the way to go perhaps? This event is changing rapidly each month and may now be building to a crescendo but I hope not.

In one way, it will force the world to realise the magnitude of the situation and may mean that we start to get real cohesiveness in the battle against nuclear. Maybe folks will begin to realise that there is no way to store this stuff safely for tens and hundreds of thousands of years. Thats if we last that long. If things go back to square one, then we will not have the technology and personnel to do anything about the calamity anyway because the science and skillsets will be gone in favour of a bare almost caveman existence.

No-one wants to believe that this is it if the fuel pool goes belly-up, but denial is destructive too as can be seen by the actions of the Japanese authorities over the past 2 years.

It's like I drove home and somebody moved the garage.

Poking around south fuk we seem to have some new construction near the beach. Inground pools? Tank farm? What do you think? [We really need some on site film]



"Radio: In the history of science we’ve never seen anything like this Fukushima plume heading across Pacific to U.S. and Canada — Why is Japan allowed to get away with contaminating ocean?
Why are there not other efforts from other countries involved here?"
enenews.com... nd-canada-why-is-japan-allowed-to-get-away-with-contaminating-o
soundcloud.com...-tokyo/cbc-aih-fukushima-far-worse

Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station Unit 1 turbine building inflow of groundwater


"2 things Tepco never want us to ask – Direct leakage of coolant water and welling up contamination offshore
High level of contamination is measured from the groundwater. Normally, everyone would suspect it’s from the reactor buildings and other related buildings. However they are taking ages to investigate trench and stuff -beating around the bush.
It’s actually easy to identify where the coolant water goes. Just color it. If you see it in the sea, the coolant water, which directly touched molten nuclear fuel, is leaking to the sea. Tepco is given the right to define the causes to take forever to get to what really matters, and media is supporting Tepco by not asking why they don’t investigate it.
Some parts of the groundwater in the plant area goes under the sea bottom of Fukushima plant port. It comes up to the sea far offshore.
The depth of the plant port is approx. only 5m. On the other hand, impermeable layer is 13m deep underground. Groundwater stream goes on the layer and can travel far like an underground river. There are some locations to have groundwater well up in the Pacific but Tepco hasn’t investigated it, nor doesn’t plan to do it. Japanese government doesn’t even mention the presence of such points in the sea."

fukushima-diary.com...

reply to post by DancedWithWolves


"Maintaining stable reactor cooling is really only relevant if the nuclear fuel is still in the reactor. It isn't. "


This is so strange. The cores are gone, yet they still pour water into the reactors? What are they cooling? One has to wonder if they are not making more of a mess of the situation by doing this, if there is only remnants etc. and no cores?

If the cores are gone they are gone, there is no way anyone is going to climb down x number of feet and carrying them up, one at a time at any point before they hit their final destination. With no cores at all, and an admission this is the case, one has to wonder why they should not fill the whole thing up with concrete? Making endless amounts of radioactive water is insane, pouring it into the sea is criminal, doing this to save face cannot be described.

reply to post by crankyoldman


The Cores are not fully molten in Nr.2 and Nr.3, only Nr.1 had a full Melt-Down,
according to the Calculations from Tepco!

And you need to cool even the molten Coria to keep the Temp low that she cant damage
the outer Containment!