Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake - PART 2

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posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by intrptr

Originally posted by UnmitigatedDisaster
Link to a Reuter's article discussing the Reactor 4 fuel removal.

Reactor 4 cleanup in November


Tepco has already removed two unused fuel assemblies from the pool in a test operation last year, but these rods are less dangerous than the spent bundles. Extracting spent fuel is a normal part of operations at a nuclear plant, but safely plucking them from a badly damaged reactor is unprecedented.

"To jump to the conclusion that it is going to work just fine for the rest of them is quite a leap of logic," said Gundersen.

Thanks for that link. People should read it. Arnie Gunderson is a qualified source to speak on the issues at Fukushima. More from the link...


The process will begin in November and Tepco expects to take about a year removing the assemblies, spokesman Yoshikazu Nagai told Reuters by e-mail. It's just one installment in the decommissioning process for the plant forecast to take about 40 years and cost $11 billion.

Each fuel rod assembly weighs about 300 kilograms (660 pounds) and is 4.5 meters (15 feet) long. There are 1,331 of the spent fuel assemblies and a further 202 unused assemblies are also stored in the pool, Nagai said.

They have removed two unused fuel rod assemblies so far? Whoopee, two years on and billions of dollars and they are creeping along. Stay tuned on the projections for how much this is going to cost and how long it will take.

The safety issues are enormous like Gunderson says. Pulling damaged, volatile "spent" fuel rods from the cracked, leaking, vulnerable to more tremblers pool, is about the scariest scenario I can imagine. Each of these assemblies (a bundle of fuel rods similar in a appearance to a bundle of pencils) weighing over 600 pounds, made of the most dangerous stuff on the planet, that can catch fire and "fission" in the open air if they drop it or bump it against a wall.

Only 1329 more bundles to go. In that pool, in that reactor building.

Also of note is they removed the undamaged, unused fuel rods first. They can still use them in another reactor. So the choice to act upon the danger was to rescue the money first.


To fully understand this entire operation one must add:

1. There are no qualified men to do this type of operation as it has never been done before. Those who do become skilled at the task will have to quit quickly due to radiation concerns.

2. The task will be done by folks in full radiation suits - hardly comfortable and adding HUGE stress to the process - and they'll be doing this while the keystone cops address leaking tanks the rest of the mess.

3. The whole gdamn place is sinking.

4. Earthquakes

5. Earthquakes

6. Earthquakes

7. The entire place is in a rapid state of unpredictable decay due to salt water and radiation, as well as the ground underneath becoming unstable due to the cores etc.

8. WHEN this thing does go bad, it is entirely possible the place will need to be abandoned altogether as the radiation will simply be too high for even the walking dead to go in to. Then what?




posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by qmantoo
 


qmantoo, thank you for taking on the task of opening Part 2 of the "Japan Thread". I think we can all appreciate the reasons why SO decided to close the first one; I can assure you all it had nothing to do with the subject matter. And yes, the original "Japan" thread was the biggest of all-time on ATS. In fact, some other "mega threads" have also been closed for similar reasons of sheer size and the consequential problems in loading them. And as our percentage of mobile-based users continues to grow, that was a factor that had to be taken into account.

But as well all know (and as SO is well aware), the Japan situation is very much ongoing and will be for decades. Hence his note in the thread closure post, inviting a new thread and offering to link to it. (He has now inserted the link to this one.)

Like many of you, I watched the Japan disaster unfold from the very beginning, and the criminal incompetence of Tepco and its cronies was not only appalling, it was frightening. We had both experienced members here and experts elsewhere warning of meltdowns long before Tepco and Japanese govt officials ever admitted they had occurred, and that set the pattern we have seen and (sadly) come to expect ever since: whenever Tepco says they have things under control, be very wary as it's unlikely that they really have. And if they say there is an "anomaly", a "problem" or an "unexpected setback", then our worries only deepen, because we've seen what that means in the past and it's never been good news.

There is no good news about Fukushima Dai-Ichi's crippled reactors.

We are probably sick of them bowing and saying "sorry" when yet another setback occurs, when yet another leakage is "discovered", just as we are sick of those who continue to assert that it's not that bad, really -- who say we are over-reacting and blowing things out of proportion and it's really just a local problem and they have it all under control.

The original "Japan" thread got to 1401 pages and 27,621 replies and became the biggest-ever thread on ATS because this disaster is the biggest-ever disaster of its kind, and dedicated members have spent countless hours gleaning information and assembling it into a thread for the many readers who have long since come to see that ATS thread as a true resource of detailed documentation: it shows what can and does occur when the management of melted-down nuclear reactors and unstable spent fuel pools is left in the hands of those who delay, who deceive, who dither about, who misinform or out-and-out lie about how bad the situation is and how incapable they are of dealing with it on their own.

Long since, this disaster at the Fukushima Dai-ichi reactors should have been the primary focus of concerted, international efforts to do anything and everything humanly possible to minimize radiation spread, using all resources available and creating or even inventing those that were needed but did not yet exist. Not just because it is a catastrophe for Japan, but because sooner or later, just such a disaster can happen again, either through the forces of nature, through sabotage or acts of war, or through plain human error.

But what do we have? Two and half years on, we see reports of leaking tanks -- tanks that were supposed to hold radioactive water in safety but do not; we see possible super-heating of ground water by corium, the water being expelled into the sea in a continuous, uncontrolled and maybe uncontrollable fashion; and we have the ever-growing feeling that far from getting this all cleaned up in (conservatively) 30 years, we will only see more failures, more leaks, more lies or at least holding back the truth as they have repeatedly and demonstrably done.

The feeling is that far from solving this problem in 30 years or 40 or even 50 years, it will be something that even our great-grandchildren will still have to face. Yes, not just the future children of Japan, but ours. Because regardless of how much the radiation from Fukushima spreads, we have to accept the fact that one day, the same thing can happen somewhere else. And the only lessons we have learned from Fukishima so far are very hard ones.

We haven't learned how to do things right, but we have see plenty of ways to do things wrong!

We need this "Part 2" thread for all these reasons. A thread like the first "Japan" thread is not just a series of posts, it is a chronicle of the worst that humans can do when pride, selfishness, the fear of losing face (and money) and the fear of asking for help, can lead to a tragedy that is so vast, we personally may never know how bad it will all turn out to be. That's why we need Part 2.

Thank you all who contributed to the old thread, and thank you in advance for doing the same in this one.

Mike
edit on 7/9/13 by JustMike because: typos. There may be more, though.




posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by EllaMarina
I assume turning the reactor off isn't an option. I keep thinking of a machine zooming around with its power button stuck.

No, it's not an option now.

Once the core of a nuclear reactor has gone into meltdown, it's too late to turn it off. The core just melts into a very hot, highly radioactive mass called "corium", so hot it can burn its way through the reactor vessel and even the concrete floor beneath. There is then no way to stop the reaction by control rods, nor can the corium be easily cooled.

The Fukushima site experienced multiple explosions and also core meltdowns. I don't think we are even certain exactly where the corium masses are now, but safe containment was lost more than two years ago and they've been contaminating the ground water, the sea and the air ever since.



posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by JustMike
 


Thanks for the detailed and interesting explanation.
So the situation is indefinite for the foreseeable future. Whatever is being rinsed out into the sea might perhaps take decades before it's depleted.



posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by EllaMarina
reply to post by JustMike
 


Thanks for the detailed and interesting explanation.
So the situation is indefinite for the foreseeable future. Whatever is being rinsed out into the sea might perhaps take decades before it's depleted.


Actually, it will take centuries, unless some means is devised to contain the molten cores, whatever is being rinsed out to sea will continue to be rinsed out to sea until all such material is depleted; hundreds of tons worth through a variety of processes.

Great job, q, beginning Part 2 of this, the long watch. It makes me wonder how many parts this thread will have before the situation can be said to truly be resolved.

The former thread brought together so many people from so many places around the world and demonstrated an almost prescient ability to accurately predict developments, days, weeks, and even months in advance. It was, and will remain, a repository of the even cataloged and analyzed in real time.

It is good to see several posters whom had long been absent as well as others who have since joined the ranks of the interested.

I look forward to following this thread and helping to add to the quality of ATS.



posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 05:27 PM
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Tokyo has been chosen to host the 2020 Summer Olympic Games.

Billions will be spent on parties and games.

While Fukushima festers and burns a permanent scar on our earth.

The only leaks likely to stop are information and truth about how bad this disaster is becoming.




posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 06:00 PM
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this never ending disaster has only one path to travel i fear,
from bad to worse. the buildings are slowly sinking into the softening fill
beneath them..up to 30 inches in some places. the fuel rod extraction is at best a disaster
waiting to happen..and what about the hundreds of smashed and broken rods laying
in the bottom of the pool? this is not doom porn, this is reality.
the disaster unfolding in Japan is becoming a world effecting event of monumental proportions.
the revelations of this thought are brought home by the fact that these units are all over the earth.
.......ticking.......



posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 06:03 PM
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I would hope some prominent athletes and even countries boycott these games to bring attention to this mess.



posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by jadedANDcynical
 


It is good to see several posters whom had long been absent as well as others who have since joined the ranks of the interested.

I look forward to following this thread and helping to add to the quality of ATS.


Same here. I am one of those that drifted away back when. I sure do love picking thru the evidence people bring and pointing out interesting areas or giving things a laymen's viewpoint. Looking forward to doing that in the future.

FUKUgate isn't going away.



posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by amazing
I would hope some prominent athletes and even countries boycott these games to bring attention to this mess.


At a minimum it presents a merchandising opportunity for ATS...our radiation repelling tin foil hats would be hot items.



What a mess....



posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 06:25 PM
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reply to post by DancedWithWolves
 


ha ha..why not just have the olympics at fukushima prefecture!
its just a barren wasteland now anyway..plenty of room.



posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 06:30 PM
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Not sure where this is from, anybody?

About the #4 fuel pool, dated yesterday...

d38zt8ehae1tnt.cloudfront.net...

edit on 7-9-2013 by intrptr because: mistake



posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 06:45 PM
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And dont forget that A.T.S has the only documented prediction of the great earthquake. A member had a very real dream,and felt compelled to write about it.



posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 06:51 PM
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Yes, the original thread was way too long and I think some of the loading problems like going to a null page and having to click on the next lower page number to get at the end of the thread were caused by that extreme length.

As to the ongoing disaster; when you look at ALL of the data on the conditions of the spent fuel pools and the 3 melted down 100 ton reactor cores as well as the relatively minor problem of the radioactive water (minor compared to the possibility of a complete melt down of the SFP's) it seems apparent that the only outcome can be the irradiation of the northern hemisphere to the extent of making it uninhabitable for centuries.

When they try to remove the damaged rods from the SFP's all it will take is one small slip to start an uncontrollable meltdown of the 14,000 plus rods in the pool. In fact, I believe that some of them are already melted down at the bottom of the pool.



posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 06:54 PM
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A nuclear winter without the winter.



posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 07:02 PM
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sad as it is i think we will start seeing Japans economy slide to third world status.
this never ending disaster will eventually ruin Japan and i think we will start to see
the major corporations relocate elsewhere. S.Korea has already denied fish imports from
8 different prefectures..auto imports have been turned away from several countries.
do we take a radiation meter to the store with us before we purchase a product?
i dont know...but it will happen.



posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 07:18 PM
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I suggest that everyone whom cares about this subject add a link to the original thread as part of their signature.
...
(edit) for some reason I cannot make it unpurple ( and nearly invisible )
edit on 7-9-2013 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 07:30 PM
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gllad we got a new thread started for this topic....it's important, I will come here regularly for updates to the whole situation over there.



posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by autopat51
yes..this disaster that will not end
should be talked about every day.


This thread should be pinned to the home page or Fragile Earth forum.

Same with Quake watch 2013



posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by DancedWithWolves
Tokyo has been chosen to host the 2020 Summer Olympic Games.

Billions will be spent on parties and games.

While Fukushima festers and burns a permanent scar on our earth.

The only leaks likely to stop are information and truth about how bad this disaster is becoming.



By 2020 we'll either live in a completely controlled world with censored internet OR a lot of the athletes will simply refuse to go there. Some will do it for the fame & money but is it worth it cutting down years of one's life span just to participate in an event?

I don't think this will be a world ending event but I wouldn't eat or buy anything manufactured from that area. But this is probably the end of Japan, or at least their population will dramatically drop within a few generations.





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