Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake - PART 2

Here's an interesting tidbit. The Diary is reporting that back in May they found I-131 and C-134 in sewage sludge at Fukushima. fukushima-diary.com...

That shouldn't be happening. I think TEPCO is saying it came from elsewhere in the rain.

OK. So where else is there unchecked fission going on then. Huh? Be kinda nice to know right.

Of course in reality its most likely coming from Fuku but thats better left unsaid or Abe wont be able to sleep at night.

a reply to: zworld

Yup, if I-131 is showing up, we know for a fact that fission is taking, or has recently, taken place due to it's relatively short half life.

Thus giving lie to the term 'cold shutdown'

Sides are hurting from the Tepclowns antics.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: fakedirt

as I understand it, the level you posted is quite high and is above ordinary background levels.

Then you probably don't actually understand it.


i'm all for enlightenment phage so hook me up.

Disclaimer: Do not rely upon this information for life or health, it is only one person’s estimation based on a several hours research and punching calculator buttons.

modernsurvivalblog.com...


most if not all sites carry a similar disclaimer or permissions must be sought prior to using the data. epa radnet is currently down for maintenance atm.

Several hours of research. Oh my.

"Rad 5" does not actually mean much of anything. In particular if it is based on spikes from a home Geiger counter.

I never understood that myself.

f

originally posted by: zworld
You know that old saying about history. Here we go again. If they don't know what to do about radioactive waste from the 50s, who's kidding who about Fuku.

From www.theguardian.com...

This Dome In The Pacific Houses Tons Of Radioactive Waste – And It's Leaking

The Runit Dome in the Marshall Islands is a hulking legacy of years of US nuclear testing. Below the 18-inch concrete cap rests the United States’ cold war legacy to this remote corner of the Pacific Ocean: 111,000 cubic yards of radioactive debris left behind after 12 years of nuclear tests.

Brackish water pools around the edge of the dome, where sections of concrete have started to crack away. Underground, radioactive waste has already started to leach out of the crater. According to a 2013 report by the US Department of Energy, soil around the dome is already more contaminated than its contents. Now locals and scientists are warning that rising sea levels caused by climate change could cause 111,000 cubic yards of debris to spill into the ocean.

I went along on the latest US DOE scientific mission to the Runit dome and I can tell you it is not cracking and not leaking. I've seen a few articles recently claiming otherwise but don't know where they would have got their information as the results of the survey are not in the public domain. It's just the latest media hype of the day type story. I'm no fan of the US policy regarding nuclear testing in the Pacific, and would be the first to say so if I saw nuclear waste spilling out of the dome, but the story simply isn't true. There are sampling wells all around and in the dome, and numerous samples were taken. What is less well known is that a "dirty bomb" was detonated on Runit, essentially a block of plutonium wrapped in TNT. No fission was started, but the entire island was laced with plutonium dust. The locals from Enewetak have discovered that there is tons of copper cable buried on the island from the testing era, and they have been camping on the island and digging out the cable by hand to sell as scrap. They have been literally wallowing in plutonium laced sand for months in order to earn a few dollars in scrap metal. We'll see what their mortality rates are in the coming years.

originally posted by: Lodestone

originally posted by: zworld
You know that old saying about history. Here we go again. If they don't know what to do about radioactive waste from the 50s, who's kidding who about Fuku.

From www.theguardian.com...

This Dome In The Pacific Houses Tons Of Radioactive Waste – And It's Leaking

The Runit Dome in the Marshall Islands is a hulking legacy of years of US nuclear testing. Below the 18-inch concrete cap rests the United States’ cold war legacy to this remote corner of the Pacific Ocean: 111,000 cubic yards of radioactive debris left behind after 12 years of nuclear tests.

Brackish water pools around the edge of the dome, where sections of concrete have started to crack away. Underground, radioactive waste has already started to leach out of the crater. According to a 2013 report by the US Department of Energy, soil around the dome is already more contaminated than its contents. Now locals and scientists are warning that rising sea levels caused by climate change could cause 111,000 cubic yards of debris to spill into the ocean.

I went along on the latest US DOE scientific mission to the Runit dome and I can tell you it is not cracking and not leaking. I've seen a few articles recently claiming otherwise but don't know where they would have got their information as the results of the survey are not in the public domain. It's just the latest media hype of the day type story. I'm no fan of the US policy regarding nuclear testing in the Pacific, and would be the first to say so if I saw nuclear waste spilling out of the dome, but the story simply isn't true. There are sampling wells all around and in the dome, and numerous samples were taken. What is less well known is that a "dirty bomb" was detonated on Runit, essentially a block of plutonium wrapped in TNT. No fission was started, but the entire island was laced with plutonium dust. The locals from Enewetak have discovered that there is tons of copper cable buried on the island from the testing era, and they have been camping on the island and digging out the cable by hand to sell as scrap. They have been literally wallowing in plutonium laced sand for months in order to earn a few dollars in scrap metal. We'll see what their mortality rates are in the coming years.

And that means, the copper they are recycling is contaminated too. Nice. Now we need to worry about the pennies in our pockets being radioactive.

a reply to: matadoor

Pennies haven't been made from copper in a long time, it costs too much.

They're made out of zinc now and electroplated in copper.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Sorry, I was being more of a smart A$$ than anything else. But, seriously wonder where that radioactive copper is going.

originally posted by: Lodestone
I went along on the latest US DOE scientific mission to the Runit dome and I can tell you it is not cracking and not leaking. I've seen a few articles recently claiming otherwise but don't know where they would have got their information as the results of the survey are not in the public domain. It's just the latest media hype of the day type story. I'm no fan of the US policy regarding nuclear testing in the Pacific, and would be the first to say so if I saw nuclear waste spilling out of the dome, but the story simply isn't true. There are sampling wells all around and in the dome, and numerous samples were taken. What is less well known is that a "dirty bomb" was detonated on Runit, essentially a block of plutonium wrapped in TNT. No fission was started, but the entire island was laced with plutonium dust. The locals from Enewetak have discovered that there is tons of copper cable buried on the island from the testing era, and they have been camping on the island and digging out the cable by hand to sell as scrap. They have been literally wallowing in plutonium laced sand for months in order to earn a few dollars in scrap metal. We'll see what their mortality rates are in the coming years.

Lodestone, you might want to read the report in question.

In the report mentioned in the article, which is in no way classified and can be found here marshallislands.llnl.gov...
it states in different places that there are defects occurring;

"Some visually-defective elements were identified during the visual survey, including cracks and spalls in the concrete cap, and recommendations put forward for their repair."

"The majority of concrete panels contained at least some minor defects consisting mostly of chipped “spalled” panel corners, surface cracks running across the panel segments and/or rooting vines and grass growing along panel seams or in panel corners. The majority of cracks appearing across the face of the panel segments were mostly less than 1 to 2 millimeters in width. Many of the cracks contained chipped “spalled’ edges with the degree of spalling varying between the panels."

They also talk about getting rid of vegetation on and around the dome because;

"This action may be necessary to eliminate the role that rooting vegetation may play in causing the concrete to crack and spall along the seams and in panel corners"

Also, the report states that groundwater monitoring is only now being started and that previously there were only two test wells with one filled in. The report mentions these as boreholes 16 and 17.

"The [2009] storm surge also filled in one of two historical groundwater sampling drill holes on land adjacent to the containment structure."

The report also states that there is a need for groundwater monitoring wells, but they didnt exist in 2013;

"It is only after drilling a network of strategically placed groundwater monitoring wells, placed inside and around the dome, that a scientifically credible monitoring program can be developed...."

This raises many questions. How many groundwater sampling wells are there now, and if the whole island is contaminated which it appears to be, how can groundwater sampling show if the radionuclides came from the cap or were already present in the ground. Also, the report talks about the fact that dilution would mask contamination.

"At the same time, it is recognized that groundwater contamination from beneath the containment structure reaching outflow points in the lagoon or on the ocean reef will be very rapidly diluted. Under this scenario, there will likely be little or no measureable or discernible increase in the radiation burden delivered to marine biota or the human population."

Hey sorry mates that I did not include all the info...
The information came from netc.com...
& A-Radcon 5 Alert is their highest...that is why I was a little a little concerned
at first but later on the figures changed.

I apologize for not being more clear....maybe that is not a reliable site?

Cheers
Ektar

a reply to: DancedWithWolves

It appears that the presence of melanin fungi around Chernobyl was naturally caused, no human involvement. It is growing in numerous locations. However, at the same time it doesn't appear to be working on cesium as the levels of C-137 in the soil are far greater than they expected this long after the accident. Its unclear the reasons for this, but in one report from 2009 they are saying that the ecological half life of C-137, the rate that the nuclide diminishes in the environment, is estimated to be between 180 and 320 years at Chernobyl, and not 30. www.wired.com...
From the article;

“The results of this study came as a surprise. Scientists expected the ecological half-lives of radioactive isotopes to be shorter than their physical half-life as natural dispersion helped reduce the amount of material in any given soil sample. For strontium, that idea has held up. But for cesium the the opposite appears to be true.”

The report is “Long-Term Dynamics of Radionuclides Vertical Migration in Soils of the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant Exclusion Zone”

This raises a lot of questions. If the ecological half life is not the same as the physical half life, we can throw the book away on how long isotopes will persist in the environment.

At the same time whether or not melanin can work as a decommissioning agent is unclear due to C-137s new life span at Chernobyl. However, it seems the Naval Research Lab is taking melanin seriously as they are trying to understand the processes at work for the following reason;

“Such work is a prerequisite for harnessing these systems for enhanced protection of military and civilian personnel against ionizing radiation and energy transduction in radioactive environments.”

originally posted by: matadoor
wonder where that radioactive copper is going.

From this article www.geoengineeringwatch.org... it looks like China which means it could be ending up in products sold back to America.

“Enewetak has no money. What will people do to make money?” asked Rosemary Amitok, who lives with her husband Hemy on the atoll’s largest island.

The couple eke out a living by scavenging for scrap copper on Runit and other islands on the atoll. For weeks at a time, they camp out in a makeshift tent on the island while Hemy digs for cables and other metal debris.

The sell the salvage for a dollar or two per pound to a Chinese merchant who runs Enewetak’s only store and exports the metal, along with sea shells and sea cucumbers to Fujian in China.

ON EDIT: And here is some of the industries that might end up using that copper;

Fujian is one of the more affluent provinces with many industries spanning tea production, clothing and sports manufacturers such as Anta, 361 Degrees, Xtep, Peak Sport Products and Septwolves. Many foreign firms have operations in Fujian. They include Boeing, Dell, GE, Kodak, Nokia, Siemens, Swire, TDK and Panasonic.


Ouch!

a reply to: zworld

Zworld and everyone, for some years now Wired magazine articles that touch on either science or human health have been getting it wrong on ionizing radiation (IR). In fact, that's why I cancelled my longtime subscription to Wired. In the article you mention, the term "ecological half life" is that writer's invention. There is no such concept in all the books published in English on the subject of nuclear power. I know that because I had to read them all in order to write my own published article, Lessons From Fukushima. (In the future, that article will be available online.) I know that Wired magazine does employ a fact checker to screen all its material before it is published, but many people in the publishing world do not have much of a science background. In addition, Wired generally does not release references used by its article writers.

a reply to: Uphill

Interesting do you mind sharing some of your thoughts
on the situation? Thank you.

Cheers
Ektar

a reply to: Uphill

Uphill, thank you for that. Ive tried to find other references to C-137s half life increasing and havent yet. The only thing Ive found so far is from “Prediction of radionuclide aging in soils from the Chernobyl and Mediterranean areas” at www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

“The aging of soil-pollutant interaction, which may lead to an increase in pollutant fixation, is the main driving force in the natural attenuation of contaminated soils. Here a test was evaluated to predict the aging of radiostrontium and radiocesium in soils from the Chernobyl and Mediterranean areas....... Aging was not as relevant for Sr as for Cs..... Instead, all factors accelerated Cs aging due to the enhancement of Cs trapping by clay interlayer collapse, with up to 20-fold increases in Cs fixation.”

If I read the above right, C-137 had a shorter half life, not longer.

Can you fill us in on which might be right.

ON EDIT: Then I came across this which states that in clay C-137 is immobilized quickly, but in upland non clay soils it persists, so it appears to be soil dependent. From “Ecological lessons from the Chernobyl accident” at www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

“measurements of radioactivity in grass and soil indicated a rapidly declining problem as the radioiodine decayed and the radiocaesium became immobilised by attachment to clay particles. However, these studies...were based on lowland agricultural soils, with high clay and low organic matter contents. The behaviour of radiocaesium in upland UK turned out to be dominated by high and persistent levels of mobility and bioavailability.

The causes of radiocaesium mobility in upland areas have subsequently been the subject of intense investigation centered around vegetation and, in particular, soil characteristics....While much of the earlier work suggested that a low clay content was the main reason for continuing mobility, a very high organic matter content is now also believed to play a major role, this being a characteristic of wet and acidic upland UK soils. The overall message from this affair is the importance of a fundamental understanding of biogeochemical pathways in different ecosystems when attempting to predict the impacts of large-scale contamination.

a reply to: Ektar Sunday, July 12th: I will be away from the computer for a few days, but here's some suggestions: 1) It is possible that the tritium fixing technology from that Russian company whose bid TEPCO accepted will be effective. Otherwise no technical solutions are working for TEPCO. 2) In the last 70 years, most attempts to use statistics to show the harm to our biosphere from nuclear reactors have been ineffective. It is time to re-introduce math into that discussion, since mathematics offers a higher standard of evidence than statistics. Math is not truth, but math is fact. Unfortunately, nuclear power historians evidently fear math, since their books always exclude math. 3) Prices on 3-D printers are dropping like a stone. I look forward to seeing an ATS team create 3-D simulations of the reactor site, and what lies beneath. As you know, Fukushima is not over, but seeing is believing.

I think TEPCO is lying out their butt. A few days ago they stated (it was #5) that they would no longer be posting temp data for the spent fuel pool in unit 4 cause they were no longer circulating water and the fuel was gone. Now they have taken #5 down and posted a new temp for unit 4 SFP of 22.5 C (72.5F), the highest reading yet for the pool. Its also higher than unit 3's pool until a couple of weeks ago when it started going up as well.

My question is this. Does a pool of water housed in a unheated building on the coast of Japan go up from 59F to 72.5F in a couple of months just by a rise in outside temperatures when those temperatures were roughly 75 for a high and 63 for a low. I was a swimmer in my early years and used to race for Ann Curtis swim team. Both outdoor and indoor unheated pools along the California coast with similar summer readings were always much colder than the high temps. Sometimes by quite a bit.

If there is no fuel in the reactor, no melt down and no spent fuel in the pool, where is this heat coming from that is heating the water.

a reply to: Ektar

no apology required ektar. netc explains the setup of the site quite nicely in fact.
2nd
f

a reply to: Uphill

Uphill, it occurs to me that even though he made up the term ecological half life, I think there needs to be a broader definition of half life since it appears to vary depending on environmental conditions. I think environmental half life would be a better descriptor. The full span of time responses, including the expected half life. So cesium might have environmental half life of say 20 to 300 years, and an expected half life of 30.

It's an interesting field of research that doesnt seem to have alot of research performed.

ON EDIT: There does appear alot of research on cesium and soil. Most of it though is on 134 and 137 binding to soil. However, thats different than it changing to another nuclide, yes?

If anyone comes across research on radiocesiums showing different half lifes Id like to read it.


ON EDIT #2: It appears that the term ecological half life has been around awhile. The following link link.springer.com...-1 is to a report from Japan entitled “The Ecological Half Life of Cs-137 in Japanese Coastal Marine Biota” from 1991 and says that the ecological half life in the marine environment for 137 is 14 years. I still like the term environmental half life, but either way it would now be 14 yrs to 300 yrs.

Todays reading has been very interesting. While reading a power point presentation from some guy at Columbia www.google.com... HAZARDS%2Fnuclear2.ppt&ei=xNuiVZy-II-YyATnm4LgCw&usg=AFQjCNFWu8TOVvGEhQ1dFpKF6lrTaP7EHw&sig2=CKejRI3xhVfhIJLV5iT3oA

it states that a fuel rod 10 years after removal from the reactor still has a surface reading of 100 Sv/hr.

Does anyone know if that is accurate. And if so, how much is the surface reading of a rod in use or new, or for that matter melted active rods ie corium.

And wouldnt that mean that the corium is nowhere near the reactor as the rad readings from the robots would have been much much higher.

OK last post for awhile. I had a free weekend with cloudy weather but now the suns out.

Hey I follow a thread Liposomal Vit C & I have been using it since March 2013.
I have not been ill with anything since then. Me surgeon allowed me to bring
it to the hospital when I had surgery...my reg doctor actually went & researched on
her own after I told her I was on it & she was very impressed.

It also brought my blood pressure down to normal...helps with pain, extreme anxiety
& etc...

I just saw on Julie Washington's site ATS that there is now a movie coming out about
Liposomal Vit C...it has cured many cancers & there is a segment on Fuku...sorry I'm not
sure how to get that info here...so maybe this will work...

www.abovetopsecret.com...
On page 132

Cheers
Ektar