Poland Confiscates Half Of Private Pension Funds To Cut Sovereign Debt Load

Originally posted by darkbake
Wow, there are divisions like this popping up all over the place. As the O.P. stated, I think that it is a problem that Poland is trying to take money from the citizens in order to pay for services that aren't sustainable,

On the other hand, Iceland solved its economic crisis by arresting their corrupt bankers and taking their money from them and put it back into the economy. If we had done the same thing,

That's pretty much it. Poland spent itself into a hole and is using anything it can to stay afloat. I don't see the bankers here ever being held to account. Many city employees will soon find out their pensions have been "legally" taken Ala the Detroit bankruptcy method.

Anyone today that leaves their paper monies of a savings in large amounts in banks is
an idiot,. Move it out of the bank, buy gold, silver,platinum,. what ever,. just keep it out of the hands
of the bankers,.

also it is not the responsibility of the people whom have the savings,. it is
the leaders of the insurance companies,. big banks and corporate heads that control the flow
of financial gains,. They need to pay the debts down. cause if it werent for the worker bustin
their back and buyin stuff in the world,. there would be no business to be had.

its all a frikin scam
remember AGI? and how they spent the peoples money on lavish parties during the crash?

Crime, greed, corruption, the removal of personal savings and all remaining individual incentive in order to guarantee the destruction of all responsible aspects of society. It's the only way to make life equally unfair for the bottom 99.9%.
Coming soon to a savings account near you.

Originally posted by Bassago

Originally posted by darkbake
Wow, there are divisions like this popping up all over the place. As the O.P. stated, I think that it is a problem that Poland is trying to take money from the citizens in order to pay for services that aren't sustainable,

On the other hand, Iceland solved its economic crisis by arresting their corrupt bankers and taking their money from them and put it back into the economy. If we had done the same thing,

That's pretty much it. Poland spent itself into a hole and is using anything it can to stay afloat. I don't see the bankers here ever being held to account. Many city employees will soon find out their pensions have been "legally" taken Ala the Detroit bankruptcy method.

That's probably true, although socialism is nice, there also has to be some kind of plan to get economic gain into the system -

a lot of socialism seems to be mixed with sustainability philosophy and debt, while I am sure there could be ways to match socialism with money-making tactics in order to make a powerhouse political philosophy, relying on sustainability as a main resource means the system is going to decay over time.

One example of creating a powerhouse economy while using socialism could be to take advantage of everyone's natural drive to do what they like to do - instead of forcing people to do jobs they don't care about, why not give them freedom to start their own small businesses based on what they like?

You could also set up a system where people could get together in the community and work on what they are trained in or interested in for fun and donate their time, similar to Wikipedia, how much is Wikipedia worth in money, exactly?

Quite a bit, and a lot of that time was donated because people have the freedom to explore and write about topics they know about or are interested in, and they get exposure by benefiting the community.

Community gardens, even ordinances promoting the use of gardens and power generators in homes would not only excite the people but level out the economy and shelter it during stormy periods.

Socialism does not have to be matched with bad book-keeping.

Buy junk silver coin. Easy to trade, easy to keep safe.

All ATS'ers should invest in junk silver coin

this is just BS. all plain BS.

i live in poland and i just did a little research. in all honesty, not much is being said, especially in a language understandable by non-economist, but as far as i understand they're moving some assets from privately-owned OFE to government-owned ZUS to reduce costs, because they estimate that without OFE sovereign debt would be a lot smaller, that introducing them was a mistake in the first place and now they're trying to revert it.

there's an element of danger though. ZUS has a lot of debt. it's a sinkhole with no end. they've introduced OFE some time ago so that people will get their money when the time comes. that was the public claim. actually though, the only people that ended up happy with it all, are the OFE owners (those are several retirement funds, owned by banks). so, first they've admitted that ZUS isn't good enough at all and that 'we'll give you OFE, you'll be fine', then bankers earned their cash, backed up by the government, and now when sovereign debt is high enough to force the government to admit they've screwed things up, they're taking money from OFE to ZUS, which is even more broke than it was before.

bottom line is, they didn't really steal the money, not yet. it just gets moved to a place where all money disappears anyway, but it's not like people would be likely to get it anyway - as far as i know the law concerning OFE, in time of financial trouble OFE owners get their money first, citizens are the last. it is screwed like that, yes. is it worse for people? yes. but it's not like they've taken the money to patch the sovereign debt directly with it, it's the reduction of costs being a result of that operation that makes such difference, at least as far as i understand all this crap.

Much of the US pension funds buy heavily into Govt bonds. When the Govt goes bust, so will those pension funds. You are already screwed. Don't buy into gold, silver and other precious metals are a better option.

I would suggest buying a property somewhere nice. Near a lake for fishing and in an area with good hunting.

It all sucks.

P

reply to post by jedi_hamster


Thanks for giving us your perspective on this one Jedi. It's nice to get an update from someone with "boots on the ground" so to speak.

From the article

By shifting some assets from the private funds into ZUS, the government can book those assets on the state balance sheet to offset public debt, giving it more scope to borrow and spend.

Basically looks like they needed to up the State balance sheets to allow more borrowing and debt as far as I can tell. Once these "moved" assets are leveraged they become collateral for the state debt. Not really owned by the pensioner anymore but the lenders.

We're discussing this topic on tonights ATS Live! Radio Show! Click the graphic for more details.

reply to post by neformore


WooHoo! Score!

reply to post by Bassago


should city employees get pensions off the backs off their citizens
that is better than what citizens get?

feast and famine.

the world is in famine time... how can some expect a feast be provided by those suffering famine?

Originally posted by HanzHenry
reply to post by Bassago

 

should city employees get pensions off the backs off their citizens
that is better than what citizens get?

feast and famine.

the world is in famine time... how can some expect a feast be provided by those suffering famine?

Many pensioners make matching contributions to their retirement funds. It should not be stolen by the state.

True some city pensions are overblown and need to be changed but this is not the case with most workers. These folks have been working 20, 30 and some even 40 years or more and contributing to their retirement only to have it stolen by corrupt high ranking bureaucrats and investment bankers. The bankers feast and the workers have famine, yep balance is maintained.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by Bassago

 

This is effing MAJOR.

Its really happening, they're taking people's personal life savings. Cyprus was the dry run.

Wheres bitcoin?

It cant be a coincidence that they've triggered this Syria false flag so close to the 9/11 false flag.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

But why???

edit on 6-9-2013 by gladtobehere because: (no reason given)

The Why is that Syria is the false flag to hide the planned US currency collapse. The chemical weapons is not the false flag, the impending war will be the false flag. The US will not win this war. Russia China and the other BRIC nations will dump the US dollar as the world reserve currency, dump US dollar debt and then US will collapse. The MSM here will spin the economic collapse as being caused by the war, although the real collapse happened in 2008. The truth is is that the entire economic collapse has been delayed by the Federal Reserve pumping in $1 trillion a year to bubble up asset prices. Right now we are living in a false economy, based on the printing of a worthless currency, and when the economy is pushed over the edge into the death spiral, the governments in the US and Europe will move in to steal peoples pensions, bank accounts and other assets. This will be the greatest bank scam ever as the banks will seize virtually all private property.

So what is in store for the US and us?
Do you wonder what the NSA spying program is for? Its to make a list for the draft. With this war there be a draft and no one will be exempt from service. We have seen the end of "don't ask don't tell" so being gay is no longer an excuse from service. Women are now allowed into combat roles so they can be killed off too. I would not doubt for one instance that the NSA has been spying on people to create a list of "dissidents" and "undesirables". I guarantee you that if there is a draft, that those people will be called up first and shipped to the front to die. The internet has caused TPTB to lose control over "the message" and when TPTB lose control, they kill off the rebellious young people in big wars. Its what they did during world war 1. If there is a war look for the internet and free speech to be the first causalities and for those clinging to the bill of rights to be made into cannon fodder.

As far as seniors, the sick and the disabled, those people are also going to die as pensions are seized, and social programs cut. The US will be remade in the image of China.

Originally posted by Bassago

Originally posted by HanzHenry
reply to post by Bassago

 

should city employees get pensions off the backs off their citizens
that is better than what citizens get?

feast and famine.

the world is in famine time... how can some expect a feast be provided by those suffering famine?

Many pensioners make matching contributions to their retirement funds. It should not be stolen by the state.

True some city pensions are overblown and need to be changed but this is not the case with most workers. These folks have been working 20, 30 and some even 40 years or more and contributing to their retirement only to have it stolen by corrupt high ranking bureaucrats and investment bankers. The bankers feast and the workers have famine, yep balance is maintained.

So.. then tell me.

Where did that money come from? who PAID the workers?

could the citizens have been the ones who paid for it to begin with?

Originally posted by HanzHenry

So.. then tell me.

Where did that money come from? who PAID the workers?

could the citizens have been the ones who paid for it to begin with?

Matching contributions is set through legal contracts through the employer whether that is private, city or state level. You know, the employee agrees to work for years and decades and their employer agrees to partially fund their pension.

For private pensions I assume the funding comes out of profits. For city and state pensions it is funded through revenue flow of the entity. In Poland's case it does not appear that pensions are underfunded as in Detroit. It's just that Poland's sovereign debt is too high and they needed to boost their asset balance so they could borrow more to stay afloat. So to solve their bad financial management they pretty much nationalized the private pension funds.

Originally posted by spirit_horse

Originally posted by EA006
reply to post by spirit_horse

 

It's like nothings safe any-more. What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine. Kind of looks like a final smash and grab before the SHTF.

The US has probably analyzed doing this since the Cyprus smash and grab. Now Poland just gives them more of what the government loves to use in legal cases: Precedent!

You could keep cash. But, that fiat paper could be devalued in the stroke of a pen. You need something that others would think worth something and willing to buy or barter for it. There are only a few resources that are probably that valuable.

The founding fathers should have had an amedment that the citizens money is theirs and is to be unmolested under any circumstance. A kind of 2nd amendment for your own hard work driven money and valuables.

edit on 6/9/13 by spirit_horse because: (no reason given)

Yu do realize that the FED changed their rules 2 1/2 years ago ... before the Cyprus raid ..... I you think this started with Cyrus and Greece ... think again ... this is a planned event because the banks know there is no more room for bailouts ... so they bail you in ...

PS: if they do this in the USA ... banks will be burned to the ground!

Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns

PS: if they do this in the USA ... banks will be burned to the ground!

Hold that thought. Coming to an IRA near you, probably soon.

There are tens of trillions of dollars in the US retirement system, predominantly in 401(k) and IRA accounts managed by big financial institutions.

And it would be quite simple for the government to mandate that a portion of those retirement accounts be invested in the ‘safety and security’ of US Treasuries. The big institutions who manage the accounts would have no choice but to comply.

In fact, it wasn’t too long ago that the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau began talking about ‘helping’ Americans manage their retirement savings. Jim Rogers and Ron Paul spoke about this at our event in Santiago, Chile

If You Have An IRA, You Need To Know This

Bank accounts used to be a liability. Then, simply because "they" say so, your bank account is now an asset of the bank - an asset. I'll say that again, your bank account is an ASSET of the bank! It's theirs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by spirit_horse
I have thought about that. You need to buy something that holds its value like precious metals and hold them physically. Buried somewhere that they won't find it in a typical search of your home. or as one person said in a survival thread, cigarettes and alcohol. i would be afraid to put it in another country, because you never know when they will seize assets. Especially American assets if they are ticked off at the US for getting in a war somewhere.

Precious metals huh.

So where do you cash them in when all of this takes place?

what do you think they are doing with your pension money anyway? the only difference here is they are telling you they are taking it, instead of just doing it without you knowing like they always have done.
pension always has and will be a scam, just a way for companies to bet with your money without any consequences.