Fellow believers. You say you are saved and non-believers go to hell. Well, ----

Fellow believers. You say you are saved and non-believers go to hell. Well, ----

www.youtube.com...

You tell those who do not believe as you do, that because of their non-beliefs, that they are damned to a fate inferior to yours. Hell in fact.

That belief has made believers, non-believers and those of other religions war against each other for all of this time.

www.youtube.com...

I think we should bury the hatchet, soonest.

If the religious system believers like you preached is superior, all you would need do to win world support is have your side walk its talk. You and your friends are not making that effort and we can all see that you are not superior in any way. If you did and showed your worth, our collectively seeing the benefits would give your religion, all the Abrahamic cults that is, the oneness it craves.

Showing your effectiveness is all you need do to silence the non-believers and massively win them over. You have not done so and Secularism is now firmly entrenched in the world.

The Abrahamic cults know that to follow Jesus is impossible so they work to enrich themselves and do not even attempt to end poverty. Jesus’ mission. Everyone sees this and I have to wonder if the old perverts infesting church hierarchies are worth our resources.

Secularism on the other hand has taken 1 billion souls out of poverty in the last twenty years and forecasts another billion souls being raised in the next twenty years, ---- in spite of the wasted resources of rich religions and various warring political and religious factions.

Myths and fairy tales like the one above are only good if we take the good and recognize why it is good. Judge not is given to indicate that to judge is to put yourself above God.

When you and other believers, me included, say that we are saved and others are not, --- we are putting our judgement into God’s mouth. Shame on us.

To those who speak for God, a God demonstrably based on a myth, I say, regardless of what you call yourself, we are all named in this quote.

See it? See your label?

"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)”

I think the various religions should bury the hatchet. Don't you?

Regards
DL

Fellow believers. You say you are saved and non-believers go to hell. Well, ----

Actually what I say is ... I hope I 'get in' (to heaven) and as far as others, I'll leave it to God to decide if they do or not.

Every so often I will assume someone doesn't make it ... like that guy in Cleveland who kidnapped those three girls for 10 years and he just hung himself in jail. He might not be in hell ... but I think he probably is. (not judgement .. just assuming)

I'll be happy to believe in heaven and hell as soon as they give tours; y'know, like Disneyland and the Metropolitan Museum of Art and the Pyramids.

As far as I can tell, only purgatory exists, and you're looking at it all around you. Modern life resembles nothing so much as a punishment and tribulation of sorts.

We all have the same creator wether we call that creator God, Buddah, a higher power or whatever. Now if all men could treat each other with respect, compassion and common sense, maybe we would get somewhere. Rever each other, the land and its' flora and fauna. Love your fellow human being and the animals and planet.

I'm hoping I can get a job as a guard at the gates of hell. I will get to see a lot of people I know that way I figure if I try to tell the truth and am honest it increases my chances. I figure if I do not waste which causes the destruction of our Eden, I will get a better job when I get there.

I hope they have work there, I'd hate to be floating around all day with nothing to do. I never enjoyed sitting around all day, I would rather be doing something. I got experience making firewood, maybe they burn wood down there to keep the fire burning.

Finns try to be prepared just in case. We have practiced taking hot saunas so it won't be such a shock.

If god loves us all equally, we would all get into heaven, no ifs ands or buts. Apparently he doesn't love us as equally as he says, otherwise there would be no place like hell where he sends those he loves for eternity.

It's like saying a mother loves both of her children equally, yet lets one eat anything he wants and lets the other starve. If the biblical god loves us all equally, he has a really funny way of showing it.

I like how NightStar said it, and agree.

We would be better served becoming caretakers of the Earth, and embrace one another in tolerance and celebration...

So you see, Jesus and I agree, as those are the very things he preached.

What is occurring in the world now is simply unstable ruler ship in various parts of the world and cultural revolution that is desperately trying to evolve! Scary situation no matter which way you slice it, considering the war toys these leaders play with.

I don't believe in heaven or hell like it is postulated by the book religions. Oh, I believe in other realities, that consciousness lives on after the body, physical death occurs....I don't know what constitutes the beyond, only that I've had experiences that convinces me it exists. But I feel confident that belief isn't going to constitute much on the decision for one's next life cycle. It's going to be who you were. The simple acts all accumulated to reflect... What kind of person were you?

So all I can say is - be a kind person, someone you like and others are glad to meet.

Cirque

reply to post by Greatest I am

Hitler also claimed to be a Christian.

Hell is FULL of so called "believers".

There are two kinds of people in the world – sayers and doers.

Doers actually do all the things that sayers talk about.

God told Howard Pittman during his NDE that not all the sayers would be in heaven, but all the doers would be.

OUR definition of "believer" is not the same as God's definition.

On August 3, 1979, Howard Pittman, a Baptist minister for 35 years, died while on the operating table during surgery and had a near-death experience.

Instead of allowing me to enter, the angel stationed me before the Gates, slightly to one side. He instructed me to stay there and watch as the saints were permitted to enter into Heaven. This point was so important that the Holy Spirit told me Himself. I watched the fifty saints enter Heaven, but the point I missed was the time frame involved.

It was explained to me that at the same time those fifty saints died on Earth, 1,950 other humans also died; or only 50 out of 2000 made it into Heaven. That other 1,950 were not there. Where were they? That was only 2 ½ percent going to Heaven! Ninety seven point five percent did not make it! Is that representative of the entire world today? If so, 97 ½ percent of the population of this world today is not ready to meet God.

Placebo by Howard Pittman

Christians in Hell

The two angels escorted me to Hell. I then saw many pastors, elders, and deacons in Hell. I asked the angel, “I know them. They had served God faithfully while on the Earth. They had died some time ago. We all had thought they were in Heaven with God. But now, I see them all in Hell and they are crying out that it is so hot! Why are they here?” There were so many pastors, elders, deacons and all other lay believers.

The angel answered, “Pastor Park Yong Gyu, a person can appear to be a true follower of Christ on the outside but God knows the heart.

There are multitudes of churches on the Earth and many of the churches are filled with many people. However, most of them are not true Christians. They are but church attendants. The true churches will firmly believe in Heaven and a Hell. The lives of many Christians are in chaos because they do not firmly believe in Heaven and Hell. When one soul enters Heaven, one thousand cursed souls enter Hell. The rate of Heaven and Hell is 1 to 1000.” (Matt 7:14)

Heaven & Hell 1000 to 1

Bishop Wilfred Lai is the founder and senior Pastor of Jesus Celebration Center in Mombasa, Kenya and it is a church of over 15,000 members. One day he asked the Lord how many of them were ready for heaven and the Lord told him only 200. Only 1% of that church is going to heaven! Dr. Lai said that some pastors have created large groups of sinners meeting in the name of God. “What you have are not churches, but large congregations of sinners.”

Message from Pastor Wilfred Lai

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Fellow believers. You say you are saved and non-believers go to hell. Well, ----

Actually what I say is ... I hope I 'get in' (to heaven) and as far as others, I'll leave it to God to decide if they do or not.

Every so often I will assume someone doesn't make it ... like that guy in Cleveland who kidnapped those three girls for 10 years and he just hung himself in jail. He might not be in hell ... but I think he probably is. (not judgement .. just assuming)

God is an alien to us. Why would you kowtow to an alien?

Just fear or do you have a reason to think that his genocidal son murdering morals are better than mankind's?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by signalfire
I'll be happy to believe in heaven and hell as soon as they give tours; y'know, like Disneyland and the Metropolitan Museum of Art and the Pyramids.

As far as I can tell, only purgatory exists, and you're looking at it all around you. Modern life resembles nothing so much as a punishment and tribulation of sorts.

I hear that a lot but when I ask for the personal detail of this punishment and tribulation, people can't come up with much.

I am not impressed by this guy but he has a point.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Night Star
We all have the same creator wether we call that creator God, Buddah, a higher power or whatever. Now if all men could treat each other with respect, compassion and common sense, maybe we would get somewhere. Rever each other, the land and its' flora and fauna. Love your fellow human being and the animals and planet.

Dear heart. Even you must do evil and if you believer in a creator then you have to acknowledge that he either created you to do evil or he did not create you right if you do. Your choice.

Please read this old O P. of mine.

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

These links speak to theistic evolution.

www.youtube.com...

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

If the above is not convincing enough for you then show me where in this baby evil lives or is a part of it’s nature and instincts.

www.youtube.com...

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
If god loves us all equally, we would all get into heaven, no ifs ands or buts. Apparently he doesn't love us as equally as he says, otherwise there would be no place like hell where he sends those he loves for eternity.

It's like saying a mother loves both of her children equally, yet lets one eat anything he wants and lets the other starve. If the biblical god loves us all equally, he has a really funny way of showing it.

Indeed.

Funny as in criminally insane.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
I like how NightStar said it, and agree.

We would be better served becoming caretakers of the Earth, and embrace one another in tolerance and celebration...

So you see, Jesus and I agree, as those are the very things he preached.

What is occurring in the world now is simply unstable ruler ship in various parts of the world and cultural revolution that is desperately trying to evolve! Scary situation no matter which way you slice it, considering the war toys these leaders play with.

I don't believe in heaven or hell like it is postulated by the book religions. Oh, I believe in other realities, that consciousness lives on after the body, physical death occurs....I don't know what constitutes the beyond, only that I've had experiences that convinces me it exists. But I feel confident that belief isn't going to constitute much on the decision for one's next life cycle. It's going to be who you were. The simple acts all accumulated to reflect... What kind of person were you?

So all I can say is - be a kind person, someone you like and others are glad to meet.

Cirque

Like Nightstar, you have a good heart but like all of us cannot help but do evil so yours is unworkable rhetoric.

Please see what I gave her above.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Murgatroid
]

So you are basically saying that God is lying by 1000 to 1 when he says he loves us all.

Is that your point?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
God demonstrably based on a myth...

Never been a big fan of mythology myself...

"All men ARE liars" ~ Psalm 116:11

reply to post by Greatest I am


For most people, I would say that doing evil isn't in their nature. We are all human beings, make mistakes and are not perfect, but try to be the best that we can be.

reply to post by Greatest I am


Hell is separation from God wether in this life and whatever is next, to be separted for eternity is not what a God of unconditional love would allow. Regardless, it is our choice to be separated or not and how long. Einstein once said there is no such thing as darkness, darkness is only an absence of light. Hell is only an absence of God. How separated are we from being in loving service to God and others is what question we each need to ask ourselves. Jesus said it very clear if you can live by these 2 things, you will find Salvation. Even if you never had the opportunity to experience God, everyone has been given the opportunity to be of loving service to others over selfishness.

Come on now, Hell is a 404 - page not found. The worst that can happen is to be thrown into the Lake of Fire, and that is for purification of those who need it. Does not God call Himself a refining fire over and over in the Scriptures? He calls Himself soap too, and both fire and soap cleanse. Poof! There goes our wood, hay, and stubble. In the end, all are rehabilitated, resurrected, and ushered into the Kingdom. Otherwise, God cannot become All in all. Death and the Grave (often mistranslated "Hell") are thrown into the Lake of Fire also, and after that happens, how can anyone be dead and in Hell?

In the law given to Moses, death is the worst punishment prescribed for sins. Does God follow His own Law or not? I believe He does, so the second death is the worst He prescribes for the wicked, not eternity in "Hell."

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by Greatest I am
God demonstrably based on a myth...

Never been a big fan of mythology myself...

"All men ARE liars" ~ Psalm 116:11

I like myth. They are great teaching tools but to believe that they are real takes all the good out of them.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

For most people, I would say that doing evil isn't in their nature. We are all human beings, make mistakes and are not perfect, but try to be the best that we can be.

Both the potential for good and evil is in our nature.

In fact, we cannot help but do some evil or what will be perceived as evil by thos we compete against as we evolve.

Please read this link and opine there.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Regards
DL