China for World super power in next 40 years, page 9
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reply posted on 20-11-2004 @ 10:08 PM by Broadsword2004
Originally posted by nehzismann
"The only way to take out a carrier would be to use a nuclear missile,"says boardsword. That is ultimitely the most down right arrogent thing I have heard. There are in fact many ways to "take out" a carrier: 1. To use submarines with air support (depending on the strenght) 2. To overflood air territories with aircraft including bombers. NOT NUCLEAR BOMBS! And so forth. I am not really familiar with stratigic operations, but the dumbest person in the world would know that a nuclear missle is not the kind of weaponry to use in battles like this scenario. IDIOT!
On the other hand, China already owns us. Just look in your living room. I bet you that a big portion of your furnishings and little accessories around your house, come form China. Even my computer has been manufactured in China.
However, Boardsword is not the most knowledgeable person about this sort of situation.


And China wouldn't have half the money they have if the U.S. didn't buy their stuff either; no one "owns" anybody man, sheesh.

You want to tell me how you could "overflood" the air territory of a carrier? You'd have to fly the aircraft to the carrier's location; that' s pretty hard to do if the carriers are parked outside of the aircraft's range. A long range bomber? It needs escort planes to guard it, otherwise a carrier's anti-aircraft missiles will take it out; or, its own aircraft will.

Submarines?? Again, carriers train for this sort of scenario. In any war scenario, the entire carrier fleet would be on full alert with its entire aircraft fleet on standby; the carrier would use its anti-sbumarine warefar technologies and dispatch its anti-sub helicopters to hunt down the enemy subs.

As I said above, though you seem to have ignored it somewhat, they train for these types of scenarios all the time. You also seem to forget that the U.S. Navy has its own subs to counter any enemy subs as well.


reply posted on 21-11-2004 @ 05:33 AM by plutonian
Originally posted by Broadsword2004
More idiots again (exclusing SweatmonicaIdo).

It also shows here that you seem to have no idea of how a carrier would go into battle. The Chinese mainland? I don't think the U.S. has any plans of invading China. That would be political suicide right now, plus, despite what politicians might ever want, the people themselves of the U.S. have no such interests. Also, aircrafts? China has no forward sea projection. All their aircrafts have to come from the mainland pretty much. Which means in a real war scenario, the carriers would be sitting out of range of those aircraft. And if any of those aircraft somehow came near the carrier, the carrier has its own anti-aircraft missiles, AND its own aircraft to fight those aircraft. The carriers would be out of range of the missiles too. The only way to take out a carrier would be to use a nuclear missile, and everyone knows where that would lead.

You also seem to forget that carrier groups train for such scenarios all the time!! You think the U.S. Navy hasn't already thought of, "What if, in a real battle scenario, the enemy tries to swarm a carrier battle group...." etc....etc....they are plenty aware of all that. No carrier would ever come close enough to China to get into such danger.


lol, ok, I am not gonna argue about carrier groups' maximum computing capacity simply because I am studying in this field, let me just say it is general knowledge to me and it is not worth my time to debate on the "US must have ..." assumptions. It is the current "technological limitation", including GPS's vulnerability to interference and limitations on the deployment of UCAVs, please, at least do some homework before you talk, it is not "if US Navy haven't thought of", it is "they are not able to atm".

PS: I think COWlan does have a point, no offence.


reply posted on 21-11-2004 @ 11:27 AM by Blobber
As stated earlier, China's problem for modernizing her army comes from lack of economies of scale (economic structure). They have tried for decades to develop their modern military hardware, and concluded the economic structure is lacking at this moment to efficiently modernize their forces.

Because also of the above, China's current policy is to focus on reorganizing their economic structure, while in the mean time (as a temporary meassure) a lot of hardware comes from abroad for modernization.

As stated earlier, in approximately 2040 China will be the biggest economy in the world. Let us assume they, somewhere in time, will have the economic structure like the US. Let us assume that their military with regard to technology is 40 years behind (which they are not) of that of the US. Given their population, theoretically they may leap frog this gap in 10-20 years when their economy has the characteristics of that of the US.

See also this report, while it acknowledge the fact of China's current military technological gap, in 2015 already China will be able to "power project" in Asia if she decides she wants to.

www.rand.org...
www.fas.org...

So yes, when they have reformed their economic structure, I believe in 40 years from now they can pass the US as the leading superpower. And just as a note, it's acknowledged that China has for decades the ambition to have a blue water navy (carriergroups etc) also. It is rumoured that they are working on their own carriers. Although this is just a start, one can imagine what they may achieve in 40 years from now when their economy has been organized into an efficient capitalistic production machine.

Blobber



[edit on 21-11-2004 by Blobber]

[edit on 21-11-2004 by Blobber]


reply posted on 21-11-2004 @ 11:39 AM by Hawkssss
China to lead supercomputing sector�@
Last Updated(Beijing Time):2004-10-25 15:37

China will soon -- possibly next year -- be home to the world's fastest supercomputer, and the nation will hold all intellectual property rights (IPRs) to the bionic processor and its relevant applications.

That means China, previously a non-player in the advanced supercomputing that is the core technology to a country's information grid, soon will be among the world's top players in both supercomputing technology and applications, including the United States and Japan.

"We have already developed the world's fastest blade supercomputer," Steve Chen, founder and deputy chairman of Galactic Computing Shenzhen Co Ltd, said.

"What we will do is develop industrial applications based on the supercomputer, so that China will take the leadership in establishing key, strategic, nationwide information services grids." said Chen.

"We have contacted the government to apply for relevant projects in various industries. If things proceed well, we will launch our first product next year."

Galactic Computing, founded in 1999 with investment from Hong Kong-based Shell Electric Manufacturing Holdings Co Ltd, primarily develops blade supercomputers.

Chen, who has dedicated 30 years of his life to the supercomputing technology, is a member of the National Academy of Engineering of the United States and a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences.

"Our third-generation (blade supercomputer) is mature in technology and ready for deployment and development of industrial applications," Chen said.

The company's third-generation supercomputer, launched earlier this year, is reportedly the fastest computer of its kind -- real-time collaborative supercomputing blade system, in the world.

With an average calculation speed 1 teraflop (trillion floating-point operations per second), it can be scaled up to more than50 teraflops at peak speed.

In comparison, Chen noted, the blade supercomputer the United States is expected to launch, either late this year or early next year, will have an average speed of 41 teraflops. And Japan has announced that it will have a 50-teraflops blade supercomputer in 2005.

Chen last Saturday met senior Chinese Government officials from two dozen ministries and bureaus -- including education, commerce, public security, information industry, health, science and technology, and the National Development and Reform Commission.

Fastest computer in works

That marked the first time Chen met Chinese officials to seek government support for his blade supercomputing technology.

"We expect to receive favourable response from the government, universities and research institutions and companies ," Chen said.

He refused to say how much the projects would cost, but he did provide a reference point.

Chen said the US Government has invested US$90 million in the ongoing development of the 4-teraflop blade supercomputer, which was designed to assist with energy-related research.

"The cost will surely be somewhat lower in China," he said. "By far, we have invested US$20 million."

The US$20 million was funded by Galactic Computing's investor, Shell Electric.

Chen said his company will focus on 10 sectors when developing -- through co-operation with Chinese universities and/or research institutions -- industrial applications.

The 10 sectors will be healthcare, chip design foundry, education, entertainment, national security, logistics, new drug discovery and clinical trials, bioscience and exploration for natural resources.

"We have selected eight top colleges or research institutions as development partners, each for a specific industrial application," he said.

For example, Tsinghua University was selected for bioscience; China University of Geosciences, exploration of natural resources; Beijing Jiaotong University, transportation logistics; and Nankai University, port logistics, Chen explained.

Galactic Computing, with its partners, will invite the leading Chinese company in each sector to adopt, when ready, and promote the relevant application, Chen said.

"With our technology transfer, I hope we can help China in making a leapfrog in blade supercomputing technology and applications, and joining the global leaders in information services economics,," Chen said.

China lags behind other nations, including the United States and Japan, in supercomputing technology and applications, he added.

Dawning Information Industry Co Ltd, a leading Chinese supercomputer vendor, launched, earlier this year, a 1-teraflop supercomputer. To date, that is the fastest supercomputer in China.

Yet despite the notable progress, China does not have much IPRs to the computer's core system, which is based on imported technology, Chen said.

Also, the design of Dawning's product was not based on the "blade," which has become an accepted concept in supercomputer design, he noted.

Some major computer vendors in the United States, aware of the importance of blade supercomputing system, are starting research in the field.

Yet, "they are still in the early stages, and are focusing on the hardware. We started six years ago. Now, we are prepared to develop applications," Chen said.

"I decided to move our work from the United States to China, as I believed the products and the relevant applications would be better promoted here," he said.

The United States, despite being a leader in super computer technology, was not overly interested in adopting the blade design when Chen invented the concept.

That was because the US Government had spent so much on-speed-oriented supercomputers, and that heavy investment made it hard for US officials to shift their focus to a new technology, Chen said.

Despite the fact many US companies -- including IT (information technology) giants such as IBM and Dell -- immediately recognized the design as the technology trend of supercomputers, "they would not promote the technology as we do, as it is against their box sales business models," Chen added.

Users of blade supercomputers need not discard old computers to buy new ones for greater performance or new applications, Chen said.

Instead, they can simply re-use the old blades and add new "blades" to the existing equipment. That, Chen added, creates savings.

"The technology is not welcomed by computer vendors as it does not require frequent purchases of entire systems," Chen said. "We are not simply a vendor."

In comparison, China, the latecomer, has few obstacles in adopting the new technology.

"Companies or institutions do not need to buy such supercomputersand use it expensively after the government pays the bill prior to establishing Galactic Computing, Chen worked in the United States since early 1980s.

He created Supercomputer Systems Inc in 1987, with financial aid from IBM, after he left his post as a vice-president of renowned US supercomputer company Cray Inc.

"It was difficult to import supercomputers into China in 1980s. Now the component technologies for commercial use, becoming more mature, are available for us to build high-performance supercomputers for China market ," he said.

"But our ultimate goal is not only China. China, as a leader in the near future, should export its blade supercomputing technology worldwide," Chen said.

The idea of blade supercomputing, first raised by Chen in 1998, is widely considered to be a revolutionary design concept. It has significantly enhanced the sustainability of computers' processing capabilities.

Users can easily increase the calculation speed of a blade supercomputer by adding "blades," or sets of CPUs (central processing units).

The different computing sections of a blade supercomputer can achieve real-time, collaborative computing in a single system, Chen explained. While in traditionally-designed supercomputers, the processing capability is fixed and each computing section is programmed for a certain function, working independently.

According to Chen's scheme, China needs 50-100 units of huge blade supercomputers, to work as a systematic public information service platform covering diversified sectors.

The existing platforms, most of which were set up one by one, scattered and isolated from each other, will be replaced.

"It is similar to the electric power utility industry, when a few large nuclear power plants are set up to replace numerous small power generators... it is much more effective and efficient," Chen said

en-1.ce.cn...
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