Who Are The Others That God Refers To Concerning Our Creation? Just Curious......

Logarock

Danko
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

The trinity is a human concept, and that word doesnt exists even in the Bible. That word appear around 553 if i remember and even Jesus never used that term...

If the Bible was the word of God, it will contains not any mistake and the problem, that there are a lot, lot of errors, mistakes .

My opinion:The Bible is not from God or have been altered by the human hand through the ages.

The word Trinity is not a human concept but rather a matter of logical deduction. And whats more it really was never intended to produce a total understanding of the relationship between the Father, Son and Spirit. We see all three independently operational and together on any number of occasions in scripture.

As far as the Bible being altered we do have some problems. Because we can only compare manuscripts to find alterations then all we really know is that some, few, of certain translations are different. That's really all we can say because to make your total case we would have to have original documents. Like the actual edition of Jeremiahs scribal recordings of Jeremiahs words.

As far as copies that were made and recopied over the years......how would you like to be the scribe that got caught changing the original text in your copy? You would be tossed out and your mess destroyed. All copies were checked and this procedure wasn't taken lightly. As it is you have copied texted that are hundreds of years apart in age with not so much as a punctuation error.

Preserved by God to this generation

1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

reply to post by davethebear


God was talking to his Son, Jesus, and perhaps the myriads of Angels, who are described at Job 4:1-7 as crying out in joy at the creation of earth.

(Job 38:4-7)  4 Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth? Tell [me], if you do know understanding.  5 Who set its measurements, in case you know, Or who stretched out upon it the measuring line?  6 Into what have its socket pedestals been sunk down, Or who laid its cornerstone,  7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?

Man was made in their image, in the sense that they had the ability to imitate Gods qualities like love, and to exercise free will.

reply to post by ChesterJohn


Just so you know the facts:

“In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth.” (King James Version)
But this text is not found in any of the early Greek manuscripts and has obviously been added to bolster the Trinity doctrine. Most modern translations, both Catholic and Protestant, do not include these words in the main body of the text.
When the 16th-century scholar Erasmus translated his Greek “New Testament,” he appealed to the authority of the Vatican Codex to omit the spurious words from 1 John chapter 5, verses 7 and 8. Erasmus was right, yet as late as 1897 Pope Leo XIII upheld the corrupted Latin text of the Vulgate. Only with the publication of modern Roman Catholic translations has this textual error been acknowledge

Regarding this Trinitarian passage, textual critic F. H. A. Scrivener wrote:

“We need not hesitate to declare our conviction that the disputed words were not written by St. John: that they were originally brought into Latin copies in Africa from the margin, where they had been placed as a pious and orthodox gloss on ver. 8: that from the Latin they crept into two or three late Greek codices, and thence into the printed Greek text, a place to which they had no rightful claim.”

—A Plain Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament (Cambridge, 1883, third ed.), p. 654.

I trust most people recognize the spurious nature of this, since it has been well documented.

Forgive me for going off topic. Back to the subject at hand. The bible speaks of "myriads of Angels"
They are also termed “sons of the true God,” “morning stars,” and “holy myriads” (or “holy ones”).—Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7; De 33:2.
When man was created God had a multitude of spirit creatures; Angels, Seraphs, & Cherubs. and at least one Arch Angel witnessing his crowning creation.

GOD. . . Heh, an interesting concept indeed.

Well, there is a feeling from within that signals a higher-power . . .However, certainly not the biblical GOD. The real creator of this vast universe wouldn't care about such trivial things the biblical GOD seems to get up in arms about. On subject though, "WE"/"OUR" image -- you all have interesting ideas on the matter.

I like to believe it implies that Angels are the others that are being referred to. Now, my take on Angels -- well, that would stray to far off topic. This topic is definitely making me think though.

+1

~Sovereign

Sparky63
reply to post by ChesterJohn

 

Just so you know the facts:

“In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth.” (King James Version)
But this text is not found in any of the early Greek manuscripts and has obviously been added to bolster the Trinity doctrine. Most modern translations, both Catholic and Protestant, do not include these words in the main body of the text.
When the 16th-century scholar Erasmus translated his Greek “New Testament,” he appealed to the authority of the Vatican Codex to omit the spurious words from 1 John chapter 5, verses 7 and 8. Erasmus was right, yet as late as 1897 Pope Leo XIII upheld the corrupted Latin text of the Vulgate. Only with the publication of modern Roman Catholic translations has this textual error been acknowledge

Regarding this Trinitarian passage, textual critic F. H. A. Scrivener wrote:

“We need not hesitate to declare our conviction that the disputed words were not written by St. John: that they were originally brought into Latin copies in Africa from the margin, where they had been placed as a pious and orthodox gloss on ver. 8: that from the Latin they crept into two or three late Greek codices, and thence into the printed Greek text, a place to which they had no rightful claim.”

—A Plain Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament (Cambridge, 1883, third ed.), p. 654.

I trust most people recognize the spurious nature of this, since it has been well documented.

Forgive me for going off topic. Back to the subject at hand. The bible speaks of "myriads of Angels"
They are also termed “sons of the true God,” “morning stars,” and “holy myriads” (or “holy ones”).—Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7; De 33:2.
When man was created God had a multitude of spirit creatures; Angels, Seraphs, & Cherubs. and at least one Arch Angel witnessing his crowning creation.

edit on 9/16/2013 by Sparky63 because: (no reason given)

Just so you know the facts God promised in Psalm 12:6, 7 6o preserve his word to each generation. /so if God preserved it what man can say it is in error or spurious? The AV is the only complete and whole Bible in English out of the 350 plus English versions out there and all but the AV are authorized my the Roman Catholic church m( that should be a red flag for any scholar). Just because some man says is ain't found in some documents does not keep me from believing God kept his promise and preserved his word for this English speaking generation and it is found in the only Holy Bible that has all the verses, words and sections, the AV.

The Strong's Greek dictionary is Koine Greek words with Classical Greek meanings. There has never been found a Koine Greek dictionary. We have no ORIGINALS all we have are copies and how can we be sure they are correct if we don't have the originals to compare them too.

Here are a few facts you may not know. 1) The AV has its own built in dictionary as it can define any word by the context of its use. 2) the AV has a build in cross referencing system. Which would have been impossible for the AV translators to have done purposely because they were in three different groups in three different locations and they could not all agree on certain terms and issues. 3) Word's they could not translate they transliterated, words, Phrases or Verses they found were to difficult to translate they simply left them as they were but translated them to English there by having to have some form of inspiration so that the meaning was not lost.

For example: I will try to be exact but my numbers could be off, the name Jesus is found 942 times in the AV, out of those all but 7 were translated from the Greek word Iesous, 5 of them were added to the text and are signified by being placed in Italics, and 2 of them wee translated from the Greek word autos which could mean him or his. God inspired the translators to add Jesus 5 times for the English would be confusing and God is not the author of confusion, so inspiration led by God so it would read correctly. And twice he inspired them to translate autos with Christs personal name because the English reading would have pointed to the wrong person under English Grammatical rules.

Learn the Bible in English first because you will never understand it in a dead language like Koine Greek. and or languages like Hebrew or Aramaic or Chaldean.

You didn't share anything that I did not already know. JW's are very quick to use the exact reasons you gave. They hate the Roman Catholics but have no problem using their text for their own NWT.

inb4 Anunnaki.

borntowatch
Funny how its a biblical question and the OP asked people not to use scripture to explain scripture.
Funny how so many start talking weird stuff about what the "US" in the bible is, from outside biblical sources.

The Trinity is the Christian answer to "US" in the book of Genesis. The Jews have a hard time explaining it themselves.
Humanity was created perfect without sin, sin enters the world and with sin came death. Death for children, babys, all life.
Jesus sacrifice restored the pre sin state of humanity (free gift that needs to be recieved) and will be rectified upon Christ's return

In college, I authored a critique of Kerouaks - On The Road...I referenced the book to explain it in my critique...how could I go wrong?!...it was written, right there...in the book!

Å99

Oannes
The "god" in the Hebrew Bible was not ominpotent,omniscient, or omnipresent. He was originally known by his Sumerian epithet En.lil (Lord of the command). He had dominion over the Semitic tribes of Asia minor. His half brother En.ki (Lord Earth)/E.a (He whose house is water) was the true scientist and creator of this this version of man. His had dominion over the African tribes. After the global flood circa 12,000 b.c. , the first place to be re-settled was the Mesopotamian plain. These Anunnaki ( those who from the Heavens came to Earth) were the most recent manipulators of the human genome. Our true origins? All humanoids in our section of this galaxy started in the constellation known as Lyra. This was approx. 22 million years ago (www.exopedia.org) . The race of beings responsible, are known as the Paschats/Narshringa (Hindu-Sanskrit). I kid you not, they are a race of bipedal Lion/feline type humanoids. There specialty is actually genetics. Hope this helps clear up some confusion.

Nailed it!
Everything else is illuminated script masquerading as the one truth...

Å99

Xaphan
inb4 Anunnaki.

Oh stop with the mus-translation of Sithcen of the cuneiform writings of the Sumerians already!

Text
Now who does the US and OUR, in the sentence refer to? If God was supposedly the creator of everything, on his own, who are the others in reference to the word US and OUR? I am a little confused as to why God would use the plural rather than the singular…

reply to post by davethebear


My opinion. It is all theological so I really don't know anymore about it than the other folks. Most people have their own pickings and go with what they want to believe.

There are two creations that I am aware of. The first is the celestial creation which is outside of this terrestrial universe and the second is this terrestrial universe. When the Creator created the celestial creation He was, and still is, complete spirit and invisible to His creation. To show Himself to his celestial creation, He then brought Himself to a visibility which He called "The Word Of God". The Word was not created but was brought forth from the Creator. This visibility is known as His begotten Son. The Word is the creator of all visibility and is called the celestial image while the Creator Spirit is the life giver of all creation and is called the likeness. Both celestial portions are God. Just as God is several portions, so man has several portions. Man has a image (body) and a likeness (spirit) just as the Creator has the same. As the Creator brought forth His Word He gave His son life within Himself or as is known the life of creation.

The spirit is always the boss of whatever is created with life. Even in this universe the spirit tells the body exactly what to do and when to do it. All people talk to themselves and, no, that does not mean that they are crazy. Some people mutter aloud while most will not mutter aloud but all people do talk to themselves. That is the spirit (likeness) talking to the body (Image).

As the Creator decided, He said to Himself, "Let us make man in our image after our likeness." This would be that same as you saying to yourself, "I have to go to the store or lets go to the store." After all your body cannot go alone and your spirit cannot go alone. It takes both your body and spirit to decide and then act. Anyway that is my rant but not saying that it is true but only that this is the way I look at it.