Without perfection there is no biblical god.

It seems to be quite ironic to think you were conceived and born in what you call imperfect.
You are God's delight. Make him proud and happy.
Perfect order means you were wrought in into existence and put forth to dabble in your own two cents.
You can turn your penny into 2 cents... flip it and see what comes of it.
Your mind of mettle or your temple. Either way... your existence is relative to God's grandeur excellence.
make him proud.

Perfection = Without Flaw.

OK. So the christian god is supposedly not only perfect, but all-powerful & all-knowing, right?

So if god knows everything, it knew I was about to post this, right? It knew that when I woke up I would smoke a cigarette, right? In fact, if I'm not wrong, the scriptures say god planned this all ahead of time. That right there shows that free will is a falsehood, so how can anyone really sin? I just disproved free will playing a part in it; so please don't use that argument.

Furthermore, here is an important (IMO) question:
Can god, or can god not, create a boulder which it can not lift. Either way you answer; omnipotence is an impossibility.

Now, as I was saying: if you believe the scriptures, and god knowing all, then every single atrocity committed by mankind can be laid on His shoulders.


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The premise of your argument is... God is not perfect because Gods creation is not perfect

reply to post by Rex282


No.

Originally posted by Lichter daraus
If every thing was perfect nothing would exist.

I wonder if you know just how right you are? Think before the universe. If everything was already perfect nothing would exist.

You also used TIME as factor to judge God's perfection. That is just wrong as time is a creation and not an independent entity which has to be obeyed by God too. You said that at a certain point God was doing nothing and 10sec later He Created the Universe which is again wrong, time didnt exist before Universe.

reply to post by logical7


LOL I struggled with trying not to infer time before time. There's just no language to express the existence of something before time (of which I don't believe is possible). If a god existed in that realm, and if he could think different thoughts, then how does one go from one thought to the next without time passing?

On Perfection

Every definition of perfect is applied only when man is the measure of all things. Man measures; man declares whether it is perfect or not. Man measures; man declares whether it is God or not. It is more perfect that man measures and declares.

reply to post by jiggerj


...your thoughtline has 2 Flaws, Jigger, thats why you come to this False conclusion:

first, you do not understand the nature of God, at all ;
since someone who is full of love only desires to ADD. Share.
and therefore Creates to Can Share.

...the 'self complacent', having-enough-on-himself option, is fitting for Zeus [ enki]


second
this cosmos is *not* the Original
but a fallen bad copy, image.
Roamed by myriads of for us invisable evil entities
[calling them eufemistically ' extraterrestials' dont make their dark nature any better]
its théir cosmos - not His '.

hope that helps.

reply to post by Lone12

this cosmos is *not* the Original
but a fallen bad copy, image.
Roamed by myriads of for us invisible evil entities

I disagree.
I think that this is the original universe release and we are the Beta testers.
We need to debug it to get all the glitches (sometimes called demons) out.
In order to do that, we need to come into harmony with the other sentient beings, starting with the one next to you.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Only God is perfect right? So if the universe is perfect, it must be God. We are part of the universe, so we are part of God, the conscious part. We are God experiencing itself subjectively in my opinion.

The universe can be perfect but that doesn't mean it is God Himself.

reply to post by jiggerj

This is why I love your threads. It's always a fun 'deep thought' involved ...

Can a Perfect Being make an imperfect universe. The answer - of course.

- what is perfect to us is different than what is perfect to a Perfect Being.

- it may be the seemingly imperfect aspects of the universe that are in fact perfect to the Perfect Beings plan. The bigger plan may be perfect and in need of - what looks like - imperfection to achieve the perfection.

- who knows??

reply to post by logical7


Surprise ... I agree with logical.
Quick .. someone call the weather channel and see if Hell froze over.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Only God is perfect right? So if the universe is perfect, it must be God. We are part of the universe, so we are part of God, the conscious part. We are God experiencing itself subjectively in my opinion.

Jesus commands us to be perfect as God is perfect.
In that passage it says that the manner of His perfection is that He rains on the good and the bad.
We should be like that, not picking and choosing who is good or bad, as to who we decide to treat kindly.
Obviously the universe is not the ideal setting that we might want for ourselves if you consider the pain and suffering and death that seems to be unavoidable in it.
I think that the question should be if God is good or bad, by associating the apparent bad aspects of how the universe works, with what the intention of the creator was, or if that creator was in fact God.
I would say that God is good, by the very definition of "god".
I also would say that God did not create the universe, no matter what way the book of Genesis is often interpreted as saying concerning that.
God, or rather an unspecified number of "god" entities, created this environment that we humans live in, assuming a pre-existing very human unfriendly environment that God has to subdue and then change the form and boundaries of.

reply to post by FlyersFan


That would imply that God is not the only perfect thing in existence. God is all in all, meaning he is everything, including the universe.

Originally posted by tinfoilman

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by greavsie1971

 

Only God is perfect right? So if the universe is perfect, it must be God. We are part of the universe, so we are part of God, the conscious part. We are God experiencing itself subjectively in my opinion.

Is the universe perfect? Your logic depends on an assumption that I'm not sure we can prove one way or the other.

edit on 5-9-2013 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)

Yes it is perfect. Refer to my first postin this thread.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
That would imply that God is not the only perfect thing in existence. God is all in all, meaning he is everything, including the universe.

The universe is like a subset of God.
Kind of like the #3 is a number but isn't all numbers.
The universe is par tof God but not all of God.
IMHO

reply to post by FlyersFan


I agree, but there is more to the universe than what we can see. What we see is only half of the equation in my opinion. The other half is the invisible, the half that sees the seen.

This is all just my opinion of course.

Originally posted by Lone12
reply to post by jiggerj

 

...your thoughtline has 2 Flaws, Jigger, thats why you come to this False conclusion:

first, you do not understand the nature of God, at all ;
since someone who is full of love only desires to ADD. Share.
and therefore Creates to Can Share.

...the 'self complacent', having-enough-on-himself option, is fitting for Zeus [ enki]


second
this cosmos is *not* the Original
but a fallen bad copy, image.
Roamed by myriads of for us invisable evil entities
[calling them eufemistically ' extraterrestials' dont make their dark nature any better]
its théir cosmos - not His '.

hope that helps.

Yeahhhh, that helps. Thanks so much.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by jiggerj

 

This is why I love your threads. It's always a fun 'deep thought' involved ...

Can a Perfect Being make an imperfect universe. The answer - of course.

- what is perfect to us is different than what is perfect to a Perfect Being.

- it may be the seemingly imperfect aspects of the universe that are in fact perfect to the Perfect Beings plan. The bigger plan may be perfect and in need of - what looks like - imperfection to achieve the perfection.

- who knows??

No, no, no. The question is: COULD a perfect god, who is perfectly self-contained and perfectly self-sustaining, create ANYTHING without that thing being derived from a need or a want? If a god has needs and wants, then he cannot be in a state of perfection.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by jiggerj

 

This is why I love your threads. It's always a fun 'deep thought' involved ...

Can a Perfect Being make an imperfect universe. The answer - of course.

- what is perfect to us is different than what is perfect to a Perfect Being.

- it may be the seemingly imperfect aspects of the universe that are in fact perfect to the Perfect Beings plan. The bigger plan may be perfect and in need of - what looks like - imperfection to achieve the perfection.

- who knows??

No, no, no. The question is: COULD a perfect god, who is perfectly self-contained and perfectly self-sustaining, create ANYTHING without that thing being derived from a need or a want? If a god has needs and wants, then he cannot be in a state of perfection.

*grin*

jigger...why you keep trying to imagine that you are Right in how God should think ?

look
if yóu wanted to create a female for yourself -
would you create a nagging frankenstein
or a lovely model ?

i assume the latter - or one must be Sick -
so... it is love that creates..right ?
and love creates Perfect

and you call 'having a surplus of love' a "state of imperfection"...? c'mon

- that, áfter, that Perfect Original FELL - into this present flesh frame - is quite another story.

but its quite irrational, to base your premisse on disregarding the difference between Original and the Fall -
it just keeps getting you the wrong outcome

Originally posted by Lone12

*grin*

jigger...why you keep trying to imagine that you are Right in how God should think ?

look
if yóu wanted to create a female for yourself -
would you create a nagging frankenstein
or a lovely model ?

i assume the latter - or one must be Sick -
so... it is love that creates..right ?
and love creates Perfect

and you call 'having a surplus of love' a "state of imperfection"...? c'mon

- that, áfter, that Perfect Original FELL - into this present flesh frame - is quite another story.

but its quite irrational, to base your premisse on disregarding the difference between Original and the Fall -
it just keeps getting you the wrong outcome

You are so right. What was I thinking?