God does exist.

Let's talk "omniscient" as it has been used in the posts a couple of times.

Correct me if am wrong but isn't omniscient means all knowing, at the start of history, now, and forever in the future? If it is as I believe then your god put Jesus on the Earth when he did and then followed up with Mohammed when he did so that he could then step back and watch the fight to happen. He is omniscient, your God knew exactly what was going to happen and how man would react and we are pawns. God could have given Jesus a bit of a pep talk about our respect of the environment (can't remember reading this in the bible) and maybe having a few females as disciples so that women would not be subjugated for the next 2,000 years.

If God truly is omniscient, knowing how man would twist his words to suit their own financial gain and their own power, then surely he unleashed a set of events that was the equivalent of a parent giving a small child a box of matches and petrol to play with - and then pretending it is not his fault when the fires burn.

Sorry off topic, have you ever spun a clear globe with coloured fluids in, the spin forces create liquid clouds and winds

Originally posted by KaelemJames
reply to post by Astyanax

 

You say "definitely not God" who created water, and throwing Genesis 1:2 in your post as a closer. You missed the most important verse. Genesis 1:1.

He created Earth and the Universe in verse 1. With Earth comes all the elements.

Actually, stars produce all the elements up to Oxygen,

When stars form in the present Milky Way galaxy they are composed of about 71% hydrogen and 27% helium,[90] as measured by mass, with a small fraction of heavier elements. Typically the portion of heavy elements is measured in terms of the iron content of the stellar atmosphere, as iron is a common element and its absorption lines are relatively easy to measure. Because the molecular clouds where stars form are steadily enriched by heavier elements from supernovae explosions, a measurement of the chemical composition of a star can be used to infer its age.[91] The portion of heavier elements may also be an indicator of the likelihood that the star has a planetary system.[92]

anything heavier is produced by supernovae

Supernovae are a key source of elements heavier than oxygen.[106] These elements are produced by nuclear fusion (for iron-56 and lighter elements), and by nucleosynthesis during the supernova explosion for elements heavier than iron.[107] Supernovae are the most likely, although not undisputed, candidate sites for the r-process, which is a rapid form of nucleosynthesis that occurs under conditions of high temperature and high density of neutrons. The reactions produce highly unstable nuclei that are rich in neutrons. These forms are unstable and rapidly beta decay into more stable forms.

So you really should have said, "With the stars comes all the elements." The Earth certainly doesn't produce them.

reply to post by BlackSunApocalypse


I love these..."Prove me wrong" threads. It is your thread, prove yourself right!
It is on you, the creator of the thread to put all the proof out there. So far, I have seen no proof, so this thread should probably be put in the hoax forum.

The proof is in the logic, if you don't understand "our" logic, forget about seeking "proof" and leave this thread, unless you can prove the logical belief in God wrong, I don't see why you should criticize.

Based on points made in this thread and opening statement, I believe that "God" does not exist.

The original questions, have answers that, are simply explained. Backed up by multiple scientific processes.

Multiple conversations I have had recently, in my quest, have boiled down to this:

Creationist: "Who created the universe, because it could not have come from nothing? God must have..."

Me: "Well, who created God?"

Creationist: "No one, he has simply always existed".

Me: "Why couldn't the universe have always existed, then? Seems far more tangible, no?"

Creationist: "It would have to come from somewhere, but can't come from nothing".

Me: "Wouldn't that be the same for God?"

Creationist: "Not when he is omnipotent".

...after this point...it usually gets weird.

reply to post by BlackSunApocalypse

The proof is in the logic, if you don't understand "our" logic, forget about seeking "proof" and leave this thread, unless you can prove the logical belief in God wrong, I don't see why you should criticize.

Oh, so now there's more than one kind of logic. That's cute. And have you seen this thread? Plenty of reasons to not believe in a god. You should check it out: www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Demoncreeper

Based on points made in this thread and opening statement, I believe that "God" does not exist.

The original questions, have answers that, are simply explained. Backed up by multiple scientific processes.

Multiple conversations I have had recently, in my quest, have boiled down to this:

Creationist: "Who created the universe, because it could not have come from nothing? God must have..."

Me: "Well, who created God?"

Creationist: "No one, he has simply always existed".

Me: "Why couldn't the universe have always existed, then? Seems far more tangible, no?"

Creationist: "It would have to come from somewhere, but can't come from nothing".

Me: "Wouldn't that be the same for God?"

Creationist: "Not when he is omnipotent".

...after this point...it usually gets weird.

Among the best and most concise summations available for this kind of thread. Have a star.

Originally posted by BlackSunApocalypse
The proof is in the logic, if you don't understand "our" logic, forget about seeking "proof" and leave this thread, unless you can prove the logical belief in God wrong, I don't see why you should criticize.

edit on 4-9-2013 by BlackSunApocalypse because: (no reason given)

Logical belief in God? Those 4 words in that order should never form a word phrase. Belief in God requires faith. Logic has little to do with believing Him. That is unless when you said "our" logic (lol nice touch with the quotes around our and proof you basically just spoke about people who believe as you sarcastically) you meant non-logic. Then you would be absolutely correct. Everything you've demonstrated in this thread shows that you know next to nothing about how a proper logical debate should develop and progress. Heck you can't even develop your basic premises and conclusion correctly, let alone rebut the opposing argument.

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
So you really should have said, "With the stars comes all the elements." The Earth certainly doesn't produce them.

Thanks God created the Earth and the Universe, Sun, Moon and Stars. He made meteors/asteroids with water collide with Earth, etc. He created and caused all of this in Genesis 1:1. Then He MADE Earth in a livable and suitable environment for humans starting after Genesis 1:2.

How's this for LOGIC infinity... I think it's evident that as the world becomes more industrialized through the foolish exploitation of nature, the closer we are to humanextinction. Deforestation is occurring at an alarming rate, the seas are being filled with noxious chemicals and being turned into huge dumps, the top soil and sub soil of the planet is being exhausted. We call such modernization"progress". Anyone can perceive through direct experience that the more "modernized" we become, the less likely we are to remain healthy. It becomes quite evident that humans are destroying nature, dragging themselves out of the "natural" and creating "cities". What can we say about modern cities people live in? It is filled with all types of noxious agents, pollution detrimental to our health. The closer we draw into"city life", the more detached we become from nature. The truth is, people now see nature as a threat. As we drag ourselves into city life and cluster together for a sense of "comfort" nature init's rebellion is lashing out at us. Nobody on this planet has power over nature and nobody will ever have power over nature as long as humans degenerate through ignorance. If WE are the creators, why is the CREATION destroying and availing itself as a threat to us? Why do humans fear nature? Many of those ignoramus people on this thread who believe a superior creator doesn't exist are fooling themselves. For thousands upon thousands of years nobody has been able to overcome nature. What power do we have? What knowledge do we have? Are humans going to continue living in FEAR of nature and protecting themselves through artificial means forever? Is this the fate alloted to us? I'll call that HELL... Most creationists believe in a superior intelligence,you believe that "superior intelligence" is within you, that you can be anything you want to be, and do anything you wish to do in accordance with what you "believe" will make you happy. I read another of your threads and understand some of your views, I see them as completely logical. You preach against fear, but have you overcome fear? I'm sure deep down inside you fear will always have it's place, please pray tell, how does one overcome fear towards nature? Canyou live in harmony with wild animals? It's said that wild animals attack us when they sense fear (since fear means we regard them as a threat andin turn, they regard us as such). Your disbelief in a supreme deity is understandable since you've never seen first hand evidence of his existence, orexperienced him in any which way. What's grave in this matter is that you're content with living in fear (you can't deny this) and dying with it. Can you please present a firmly established method by which one can overcome fear?... Maybe if you stopped avoiding my posts you'd see where true logic is.

Logic actually creates belief, when we come to the logical conclusion that we aren't the creators (what creator falls asleep in his creation?) Then we understand that a superior creator exists and believe in him.

Originally posted by BlackSunApocalypse
Many of those ignoramus people on this thread who believe a superior creator doesn't exist are fooling themselves.

Wow. When I said in my previous post, it gets weird, this is kinda what I meant. But name calling and disrespecting someone elses beliefs is as equally as ignorant. Really.

This isn't the way to find answers. It only fuels the labelling, name calling and diverts further from whatever truth may exist.

Originally posted by BlackSunApocalypse
I would like anyone to try answering these questions.... Where does the wind come from? Who put the wind in motion? Who put the seasons in motion? Who put the planets in motion? Who created the water? Can scientist create water? Who gave humans eyes to see? Where does wisdom reside? Where does knowledge come from?

You asked if god exists?
Only in the minds of men!

No other evidence can be proffered.

Originally posted by BlackSunApocalypse
I would like anyone to try answering these questions.... Where does the wind come from? Who put the wind in motion? Who put the seasons in motion? Who put the planets in motion? Who created the water? Can scientist create water? Who gave humans eyes to see? Where does wisdom reside? Where does knowledge come from?

What on earth are you doing up so late and using the internet at that?

Perhaps you should get to bed before you're caught, write all your questions down in your bestest handwriting and ask your science teacher at school tomorrow.

My apologies if I've offended you, I hope to see you NEVER disrespecting someone else beliefs in future, I'll try doing the same.

I would like anyone to try answering these questions.... Where does the wind come from?

God's farts.

Who put the wind in motion?

Already covered this one.

Who put the seasons in motion?

Mary, messing with the Universal thermostat. First she's hot, then cold, then hot again.

Who put the planets in motion?

God is an excellent bowler.

Who created the water?

Angels. They cry because they have no sex organs.

Can scientist create water?

Sure, you can too. Just drink a lot of soda. You'll make water soon. (It will have some ammonia in it though).

Who gave humans eyes to see?

God was the sculptor right, that's what it says in his book?

Where does wisdom reside?

Lucifer. He had the common sense to get the heck out of that place.

Where does knowledge come from?

Adam ate an apple...one that God told him never to eat, by the way, so he was sentenced to die. Because, well God was like that before he had a kid. His only punishment options were "or die". He's lightened up a lot since then.

See how ridiculous that all sounds? No more ridiculous than what you are proposing really. The thing is, you don't NEED a divine creator to DO everything. If one exists and just set it all in motion, that's really enough isn't it? Science and God do not need to be mutually exclusive. You can believe in both. In fact, it seems the more we understand about the Universe, the more we go TOWARDS some kind of divine intellect behind it all. Now, is this the God of the Bible? Well, that's for an individual to decide. Personally, I seriously doubt any human every guessed this right, or was TOLD by the actual creator, whether that creator was an entity or some cosmic force of will, etc.

Originally posted by BlackSunApocalypse
My apologies if I've offended you, I hope to see you NEVER disrespecting someone else beliefs in future, I'll try doing the same.

I understand the frustration. Definitely. But that said, you are the one who is on "Gods" side. You know, all that forgiveness and love?

I am seeking answers with eyes wide open. I try not to be disrespectful. I am only seeking answers.

reply to post by BlackSunApocalypse


Ah, copying and pasting previous posts into a massive wall of text to sift through...still, plenty of material to work with. Let's get started:

I think it's evident that as the world becomes more industrialized through the foolish exploitation of nature, the closer we are to humanextinction. Deforestation is occurring at an alarming rate, the seas are being filled with noxious chemicals and being turned into huge dumps, the top soil and sub soil of the planet is being exhausted. We call such modernization"progress". Anyone can perceive through direct experience that the more "modernized" we become, the less likely we are to remain healthy. It becomes quite evident that humans are destroying nature, dragging themselves out of the "natural" and creating "cities". What can we say about modern cities people live in? It is filled with all types of noxious agents, pollution detrimental to our health.

I can understand that perspective.

The closer we draw into"city life", the more detached we become from nature. The truth is, people now see nature as a threat. As we drag ourselves into city life and cluster together for a sense of "comfort" nature init's rebellion is lashing out at us. Nobody on this planet has power over nature and nobody will ever have power over nature as long as humans degenerate through ignorance. If WE are the creators, why is the CREATION destroying and availing itself as a threat to us? Why do humans fear nature?

Nature is not fighting back, at least not in a cohesive unified force indicative of a sentient effort. We didn't create nature. And I wouldn't go so far as to say humans fear nature either. Certain instances, we are terrified of. Certain instances, we are unable to handle until it is over. Certain instances, we stand tall and proud and laugh in its face. Certain instances, we seek out in order to challenge ourselves and feel alive. In short, your statement is a blatant generalization.

Many of those ignoramus people on this thread who believe a superior creator doesn't exist are fooling themselves. For thousands upon thousands of years nobody has been able to overcome nature. What power do we have? What knowledge do we have? Are humans going to continue living in FEAR of nature and protecting themselves through artificial means forever? Is this the fate alloted to us? I'll call that HELL...

So you're against technology and science?

Most creationists believe in a superior intelligence,you believe that "superior intelligence" is within you, that you can be anything you want to be, and do anything you wish to do in accordance with what you "believe" will make you happy.

I believe that is one aspect of it.

I read another of your threads and understand some of your views, I see them as completely logical. You preach against fear, but have you overcome fear? I'm sure deep down inside you fear will always have it's place, please pray tell, how does one overcome fear towards nature?

You seem convinced that mankind is afraid of nature. Have you forgotten all of the devices we have invented that could easily reduce this rock to a cloud of dust drifting in the cosmological breeze? If there is anything to be afraid of, it is ourselves.

Canyou live in harmony with wild animals? It's said that wild animals attack us when they sense fear (since fear means we regard them as a threat andin turn, they regard us as such). Your disbelief in a supreme deity is understandable since you've never seen first hand evidence of his existence, orexperienced him in any which way. What's grave in this matter is that you're content with living in fear (you can't deny this) and dying with it. Can you please present a firmly established method by which one can overcome fear?

What am I afraid of, exactly?

... Maybe if you stopped avoiding my posts you'd see where true logic is.

I'm not avoiding your posts, I'm just exasperated at not finding any answers. Such a provocative statement ought to yield more than opinionated bluster. One does not challenge a den of informed individuals and not bring the facts to put up a good debate. Or maybe one does...they just shouldn't expect to walk away with their reputation intact.

Your theme here seems to be more about the evils of technology than about any religion, really.

reply to post by BlackSunApocalypse

Anyone can perceive through direct experience that the more "modernized" we become, the less likely we are to remain healthy

Really?

Average lifespan from the Stone Age through Classical Rome was the high 20's.
Rose to the 30's in the Middle Ages. Only after modern medicine did the life expectancy get 25 more years tacked on to put it in the 50's. Now, as of 2010, life expectancy is at 67.2 years.

Your conclusion seems to be radically flawed.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Fromabove

Originally posted by davethebear
You say that God exists, which one are you referring to?

Is it any of these, Thor, Apollo,Bacchus,Cupid,Neptune,Aphrodite,Dionysus,Hades,Mider,Amon,Dianaor, or another one?

Just curious......

No, no, no, not one of those. The God of the universe, the Creator God, the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ. That's the one that I mean. All those other ones are just made up gods. Only His children can know him, everyone else doesn't know Him or believe in Him because they are not His children. So they just make fun of it all. And maybe, for some pretended reason, they may worship one of those other pretend gods from time to time, or maybe even say there is no god at all.

edit on 4-9-2013 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)

So, you are an atheist to all those other gods.

We just go one more god than you.