God does exist.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


LOL...so the evidence should be easier to produce

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I was hoping you would have a better answer than that. The fact that you don't just proves my point. No, we are not children - however, I would argue that something so definitive should have something to show for its validity. If you want my argument, check out my links and the threads I have authored on the subject. Both the links and the threads make quite a solid case in defense of the probability that a distinct and conscious ruling divine power does not exist.

I fee the same way about this response too Infinity... I would ask. Have you loved? Do you love? How do you know your in love? What is your proof that "Love" exists and not just some man made word for justification for one's feelings...

Please advise, I have read many of your threads and understand where your points are, yet. Your posts don't prove that he/she/it does not exist only that they don't using the thought form of logical thinking. Which again, you can't understand everything using that thought process. In theory yes. But applied science, no.

But I accept that you don't believe in any God, and I'm cool with that. I still dig you, and on these boards you crack me up. Why I entered this thread is beyond me... I'm not a holy roller, nor do I push my beliefs on others, but then again maybe god wanted me to jump in and just say. "Hello"

I hope your having a great day Infinity~

reply to post by sulaw

I fee the same way about this response too Infinity... I would ask. Have you loved? Do you love? How do you know your in love? What is your proof that "Love" exists and not just some man made word for justification for one's feelings...

I don't know much about love, I'll admit. I've been back-stabbed and manipulated and betrayed and shown the ugly backside of human nature too many times to risk that kind of leap. I think I might have seen it from a mountainside once or twice, the same way some people might glimpse an exceedingly rare bird of exquisite beauty. Never close enough to touch, just close enough to believe in.

So I really can't argue that love is anything other than a psychological construct. But does that make it any less useful or meaningful? And that leads me to my point in defense: it's all in how you use it. I wouldn't be criticizing religion if religion weren't being used irresponsibly.

But I accept that you don't believe in any God, and I'm cool with that. I still dig you, and on these boards you crack me up. Why I entered this thread is beyond me... I'm not a holy roller, nor do I push my beliefs on others, but then again maybe god wanted me to jump in and just say. "Hello"

Thank you.

I hope your having a great day Infinity~

Eh, it could be a lot worse. Same to you.

Originally posted by Krazysh0t

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb

Mm thats cool, but meeting Jesus doesn't get you into heaven. You could have fed and bathed Jesus for 40 days and 40 nights if you don't accept his pardon you cannot enter heaven because sin will still be on your soul.

Yes the old accept Jesus into you heart nonsense. Isn't it wonderful that your god is so compassionate that I could be the nicest person to ever exist, never hurt a fly my entire life, actively put others before myself, yet forget not accepting Jesus, not have ever even HEARD of of him and I get to go to hell for it? I feel sorry for the Mayans, Aztecs, heck ANY Native American culture before the Europeans came. They get to burn for the AWFUL sin of having been born on the wrong part of the planet. Buddha? Yeah he's burning right now. How DARE he not be born in Europe.

Well if you could go your whole life without sin of course you could get into heaven, but that is impossible and why you need a savior.

Consider the character of God. How could He go to such great lengths to provide a way to salvation, state unequivocally that it’s the only way, and then condemn someone who never got a chance to hear about it. Could a God who personifies love do that? How about a just God, a righteous one, a trustworthy one? No. So here’s how I think it goes. In Romans 1:20 Paul wrote that simply observing the Creation should lead us to the conclusion that there’s a God. Failing in that, man is without excuse. But once we do that God will “move heaven and earth” to reveal Himself to us. Everyone who seeks Him will find Him, He promised. (Matt. 7:8) Whether He sends a person, a Bible, or appears in a dream He will be found. I believe that the character of God requires that He provide at least one bona fide offer of pardon during the lifetime of everyone who seeks Him. Otherwise His claims about Himself aren’t true.

All these threads really come down to one point.

Science =/= Theology.

You cannot use science to define God/Divinity and science does not attempt to.

Likewise, our universe reacts within defined principles and science tries to understand what those parameters are.

Accepting science does not compromise how we define ourselves through faith, nor do we have to inject theology into science because some feel as though science compromises how they define themselves.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


Well that is what I would say too. Too bad that the Christians have this thing called Original Sin that every human on the planet seems to be burdened with when they are born. Why can't you just go to heaven if you are just a generally nice person and even though you may have some faults (who doesn't) you always strive to do your best and help others? Why does believing in Jesus have to be part of that equation? All these cultures around the world thought they were living just fine, had people of all differing levels of good and evil just like everywhere else, had their own religions that told them to strive for goodness, and then the Christians showed up and told them that they were all going to hell because they didn't believe in their God. Forget the fact that these very same Christians would go on to sack and pillage these different countrysides (clearly unChristian), they were going to heaven and these heathens had a one way trip down under. Convert or burn!

Your quoted post is even more goofy. If God truly reveals himself to those who seek him (even if they are unaware of Christianity), then that suggests that EVERY civilization EXCEPT the Roman Empire land area just decided to wallow in sin. Not a single person in those other areas said, "Hey I think there is a God. Can he reveal himself to me?" Again I cite Buddha. Also people have been saying that exact line I stated two sentences prior for the last 2000 years and he's failed to show himself. Heck I've said it multiple times in my lifetime (before I became agnostic). IT DOESN'T HAPPEN!

Furthermore, why do these other civilizations have to seek out God themselves? How are they supposed to know God exists if they don't even have a concept of the one God? You know what would be far easier and faster? God actually revealing himself to everyone. Yes EVERYONE. God seems to have this sick pleasure in revealing himself to just one person at a time and expects everyone to not think that the person who then goes on to tell his story to others isn't a complete loon. It's almost like a sick joke. "Hey humans believe in me! But I will only reveal myself to one person at a time and in a way that makes that person look like a crazy person if he says anything about it. If you need proof of my existence, ask that one person he won't lie to you."

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by alienreality

 

How do you meet Jesus face to face? How is that arranged or achieved? Theoretically, I know you don't have to believe in him at all to meet him. You could be the worst of sinners and still get to meet him. How does that happen?

He brings your spirit to him, just like an OBE, and sometimes it is done through visions. I have experienced both of these. Paul had many visions and others. And people to this day have been visited by the Lord. There are hundreds if not thousands of accounts on the internet of people having these experiences, and yes, perhaps some or many may be fabricating stories, but they simply cannot all be lying.

I never even deserved to be visited by the Lord, I am not fit to even be in his presence, but he has an incredible mercy to us for our imperfections and he loves us so much even if we don't deserve it.

There are many accounts from people that have met him, some children have even told their experience of meeting him, and I remember one about a kid who was given a tour of hell.. I don't know if they are all true or not, All I know for sure is those things I have experienced, and I would never lie about something so serious as meeting the Lord.

reply to post by alienreality

He brings your spirit to him

And puts the lotion on the skin....

I'm sorry I loved your response but when I first read it, I about hit the floor!

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

I'll answer it. Yes, I believe it is a valid question. As an agnostic I can question anything and as long as it is phrased as a question it is a valid question. It is Christians who claim up and down that it's not valid question because their scripture says otherwise. But consider this, if I already question the legitimacy of the Bible, why would I naturally believe that God has always existed?

Well I believe God created me. You believe the universe created you, or atleast that it is more logical...so turn the question around on yourself who created your creator. My point is that based on the evidence at hand it is at least as logical to believe it was God, and I believe the semiotics of the genetic code is jsut one of the logical evidences that show that universe had intelligent design. I believe God was uncreated because it is logical. The universe was caused by the original singularity, it cannot be the cause of the original singularity. The big bang could not have produced a genetic code with semiotic dimensions without the input of intelligence....

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

Well I believe God created me. You believe the universe created you, or atleast that it is more logical...so turn the question around on yourself who created your creator. My point is that based on the evidence at hand it is at least as logical to believe it was God, and I believe the semiotics of the genetic code is jsut one of the logical evidences that show that universe had intelligent design. I believe God was uncreated because it is logical. The universe was caused by the original singularity, it cannot be the cause of the original singularity. The big bang could not have produced a genetic code with semiotic dimensions without the input of intelligence....

So because you have no rational explanation you decide to go fully irrational instead of putting in the time and energy and research necessary to uncover a rational explanation? Modern science has existed for about 200 years. Let's be realistic and exercise patience before we decide science doesn't know anything. You didn't pop out of the womb just knowing everything you know now, right? It took time.

So let's give it time.

reply to post by alienreality


"A hallucination is a perception in the absence of apparent stimulus which has qualities of real perception".
This can be brought out by anxiety or a many medical conditions...The earth is inundated with storeis of people having supernatural experiences across all religion and culture. Either all the stores are are all true and there are several GODS or none of them are and there are no GODS. (at least not in the way we will ever understand)

reply to post by toktaylor


The most important question is this: are we more interested in a terrible truth, or a comfortable lie? If given the choice to fight to expose a terrible, world-shattering truth or just sit back and allow a comfortable lie to be composed in its place, what would we do?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Ditto, In my experiences I have learnt that people needs somthing to believe in. This give their life purposes. The problem I have is these people are too lazy (or afraid) to question or research for the truth. They have been programmed by their parents/church from infant thus no other possibilites exists. It hurts to know that so many waste this life in expectancy for reward in the afterlife......

The most important question is this: are we more interested in a terrible truth, or a comfortable lie?

You are claiming that God is a lie, that is an extraordinary claim. Where is your extraordinary evidence? I used semiotics of the genetic code as evidence that the creation of life had intelligent design....I have yet to see any evidence that says it was not God, and that evidence will never exist because it is outside the limitations of science. Enoch posted a great link on the first page about the constants of e and pi being hidden in scripture. Again a hidden message from intelligent design putting its mark on the Bible....

My bad that link was on another thread here it is.

www.khouse.org...

I think Enoch did a good job on explaining how physics represents the nature of God.

Governing implies accounting, which we know God does. Governing involves being invariant, which we know God is. He does not change. The strong force in physics adheres to invariant symmetry. This is the Proton (+) and the Neutron. The Neutron has two down quarks and one up. The Proton has two up and one down. Imagine the yin / yang for a moment, then consider the nature of two over one in balance. Now subtract the nucleus. Taking the neutron away, we have one proton (+) and one electron (-) in balance. This is hydrogen. At the onset of our universe, we were a sea of hydrogen in a state of high order and low entropy. Electron and proton in balance. Every other element is governed and bound by the Strong Force and invariant symmetry, which is a law holding the house together so to speak. The electron is governed or there would be total chaos. The settings on forces producing coalescence from chiral states of matter ensures that combinations form by adhesion, cohesion, repulsion and attraction. Laws are the result of design and engineering of each particle and element of creation. All of this is centered on the Strong Nuclear Force that is invariant (Never Changing). Apart from this force, the rest cannot hold together. Where do we find this in both Physics and the Bible? Father is Hebrew is Aleph (Strong) Bet (House). Alphabet is a hidden meaning of Aleph Bet (Father). Mother is Aleph Mem (Strong Waters). To me, this is Hydrogen as well as water itself. For combinations of information (Alphabet / DNA), you need a catalyst. Water is this immersion (Baptism) of the soul into the waters of life. Son is Bet Nun (House of Seed). What is produced by the letters of creation? WORD!

Originally posted by toktaylor
reply to post by alienreality

 

"A hallucination is a perception in the absence of apparent stimulus which has qualities of real perception".
This can be brought out by anxiety or a many medical conditions...The earth is inundated with storeis of people having supernatural experiences across all religion and culture. Either all the stores are are all true and there are several GODS or none of them are and there are no GODS. (at least not in the way we will ever understand)

The only problem with your theory about me is that it is incorrect. I have never suffered from hallucinations or medical issues affecting the mind, or psychotropic induced neurochemical trauma.

There IS one God, and he has a son named Jesus. This is what it is. If you don't believe it right now, you will someday. I'm not telling you to believe it, and when you do believe it someday maybe you will think of me and do a face-palm

Also, that same God is the only God in all the other religions.. The other ones like Buddha aren't gods at all, they are manufactured constructs like a chair, or a table and then decreed as a god by very foolish people.

Thanks for participating in this exciting world

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb

Originally posted by Krazysh0t

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb

Mm thats cool, but meeting Jesus doesn't get you into heaven. You could have fed and bathed Jesus for 40 days and 40 nights if you don't accept his pardon you cannot enter heaven because sin will still be on your soul.

Yes the old accept Jesus into you heart nonsense. Isn't it wonderful that your god is so compassionate that I could be the nicest person to ever exist, never hurt a fly my entire life, actively put others before myself, yet forget not accepting Jesus, not have ever even HEARD of of him and I get to go to hell for it? I feel sorry for the Mayans, Aztecs, heck ANY Native American culture before the Europeans came. They get to burn for the AWFUL sin of having been born on the wrong part of the planet. Buddha? Yeah he's burning right now. How DARE he not be born in Europe.

Well if you could go your whole life without sin of course you could get into heaven, but that is impossible and why you need a savior.

Consider the character of God. How could He go to such great lengths to provide a way to salvation, state unequivocally that it’s the only way, and then condemn someone who never got a chance to hear about it. Could a God who personifies love do that? How about a just God, a righteous one, a trustworthy one? No. So here’s how I think it goes. In Romans 1:20 Paul wrote that simply observing the Creation should lead us to the conclusion that there’s a God. Failing in that, man is without excuse. But once we do that God will “move heaven and earth” to reveal Himself to us. Everyone who seeks Him will find Him, He promised. (Matt. 7:8) Whether He sends a person, a Bible, or appears in a dream He will be found. I believe that the character of God requires that He provide at least one bona fide offer of pardon during the lifetime of everyone who seeks Him. Otherwise His claims about Himself aren’t true.

awww how cute that is. I like when people totally contradict themselves/earlier posts AND the bible! that's awesome! your special book says in Mathew 7:21-27 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. ...

so NO, no matter how people live their lives or treat others they will not be allowed into your heaven unless they accept jesus as your lord and savior. I'm sorry but that doesn't sound like the just, loving and compassionate Christ I learned about as a child. Sounds more like a communist eugenicist. do what I say when I say or we'll gas you out of the mansion lol

reply to post by peter vlar


No contradiction friend.

"...but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

"Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

I do believe you are misunderstanding. He stated how could a just God send someone to hell, who never had a chance to hear the Word? I posted a quote saying that a just god could not do that.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


Thank you. It's statements like this that at the end of the day back you into a corner. Isnt it possible that YOU are not understanding the text? if not why are you more capable of interpreting religious texts than myself? What you fail to grasp is that science really does not make the claim that it has all the answers. Science is the search for truth and answers not the claim it has them all. It adjusts as new EVIDENCE is found. That is not faith. Religion on the other hand relies solely on the infallibility of its holy books which have been translated from one language to another for centuries and reinterpreted by various groups to suit their particular needs. The text you quote now is not the original and may not even be close to the original meaning because its been handled solely by men the entire time. Not one of these books was written by god or jesus and your faith that It is the word of god as he presented it takes far more faith than interpreting the fossil record when I can still get access to the original fossils. Context is everything.