Bad Christians (Haters) Giving Good Christians (Lovers) a Bad Reputation

Originally posted by akushla99
Bad Christians/Good Christians?...that's got to be a joke, right?

...or are the Bad ones, the ones who have been 'saved' already, so whatever behaviour they exhibit does not change that situation?...or, or, or...

You never notice proper Christians - there is no egotistical grandstanding, no rammed-down-your-throat scripture quoting (as if they knew what it meant), there is no relegate-the-heathen-sinner-to-hell (while presuming a saved position), there is no self-serving us&them circular logic, going to hell in a handbasket, breathing sulphur fumes for eternity while the devil continues to plot and scheme all the evil ways it can trick one who refuses/is apathetic about 'being saved' - what a waste of devil-time, 'cos if you ain't been saved/don't wanna be - why waste the energy preaching to the unconverted?

The paragon of Origami...convoluted spaghetti-bowl thinking...

Grow up...

Å99

I was wondering, why do atheists have a preoccupation with spaghetti? Just asking.

reply to post by halfoldman


I can see you haven't understood much of the Bible have you, I mean with all the things said trying to point out the evils of the Christian and Jewish God.

Over there (I'm guessing Europe) I guess you can punish people for what they think or say, but here in the USA we can still speak our minds and dissent when we want to. Over there I'm guessing that people can't handle anything that might hurt their feelings, would that be right? Else why prohibit free speech.

reply to post by Fromabove

I will never bless their sin, nor will I approve of their sin.

I was just the other day saying basically the same thing in our Bible discussion at church before the main service.
I'm pointing this out to show that I did not just decide to take this position after reading this thread. It is something fundamental to Bible based Christianity, and that includes the New Testament.
Thanks for your well thought out post that is better than mine just above it, where I am talking off the top of my head.
I am concerned about religious freedom, something precious in this world full of state religions or state positions against any religion.
People are always free not to go to church and I support that right as much as Christian's right to quote the Bible and interpret it as the spirit moves.

As I said before, most of you still do not understand.

You haven't experienced it yet. Until you experience it, you're aren't going to understand, short of serious divine revelation.

You say you are Christians, but you haven't been tried in the fire. It's very obvious.

Now if you truly are Christians, then you will eventually learn and you will have no choice but to change your minds in order to retain the faith which you claim.

But if you are not, then you will be tried; and instead of being fashioned proper, you will be burned up with the same burning which you demand on others.

You have no problem attacking those who have no understanding with fire; therefore, you should be more than willing to understand when I tell you, that the fire is at your feet before theirs; for you claim to be teachers because you try to teach and yet you do not know. You think you do, but you do not.

Therefore, because you are teachers, you receive the harsher judgment.

He said, "Be not many masters, for you know that you will receive the harsher judgment".

You all want to instruct, and to have your say and your opinion and your feelings.

You want glory but it does not belong to you.

You receive glory when you administer glory, and even unto those that definitely don't deserve it; especially because we deserve it even less, having our burdens upon us now.

But to those that try to claim to be a teacher, and you are not, you are in utter danger. See to that, all of you.

reply to post by TarzanBeta

You want glory but it does not belong to you.

Hell no. I say it again: hell no. I don't want glory, power, immortality, or infinite knowledge. I want to be happy. End of story. And I am convinced that no deity is necessary to be happy. If you find peace and happiness and freedom in the worship of a deity, that is your right. That is a constitutional right. I will not contest that. I will contest, however, proselytizing and insisting to every person who will spare the time to listen that god worship is the only path to true happiness and freedom.

At this point in time, that is my biggest and most important objection to the message you are attempting to spread. I'm fairly certain I could win that argument as well. You are more than welcome to try to prove me wrong, however.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I wasn't talking to you. You don't claim to be Christian.

Unless you think you are...? Reread what I said please.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by OpenEars123

 

. . . I wish them nothing but ill will.

Christians are better than that.
We do not hate people even if they commit despicable and revolting sins.
We want them to repent and be saved because we love them.
It is a sad but true reality that those who do not, will burn in Hell.
We just want to point that out in a loving way.
The Gay army of Satan wants to shut down that voice of God by labeling it Hate Speech, and do not care about real freedom, just the "freedom" to sin without being made to feel uncomfortable.
It will be very uncomfortable in Hell, that is more concerning to us saved and righteous Christians.
We are just better than you and that just steams you.
Sorry about that but it is the undeniable truth.

Undeniable truth?? Bwahahahahahaha




Ahhhhhhhhh... That's a good one, do you do standup in your spare time?


I like the way you cherry picked 1 tiny sentence in my post. You seemed to have overlooked the part where I said I like nice Christians, and that I like most people full stop.

You are clearly no better than the people in this video, and every single rational person in the world can see they are scum of the earth.

Thank you for showing your true colours in 1 post.

reply to post by OpenEars123

You seemed to have overlooked the part where I said I like nice Christians, and that I like most people full stop.

So hatred is alright as long as it is well defined?

"First they came for the bad Christians, but I was not a bad Christian . . ."

reply to post by TarzanBeta

I wasn't talking to you. You don't claim to be Christian.

Unless you think you are...? Reread what I said please.

Then what do you hope to get out of being a Christian? What does Christianity give you that you cannot obtain for yourself through other, less dogmatic methods?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Dogmatic?

You can't expect me to tell you what it is I get if you don't know that God exists.

That's like an isolated tribal man asking me what good is this "green paper" for when I try to give it to him in exchange for some food. He would look at me and say, "What... does it do...?" And it would have no value to him because his people do not have the same values as my people.

reply to post by TarzanBeta

You can't expect me to tell you what it is I get if you don't know that God exists.

So I'm supposed to invest in your answer before you actually give it to me? What's the point in asking you then? Or perhaps you're concerned that I might find your answer ridiculous if I do not invest myself wholeheartedly before reading it from you. Please humor me, and answer the question I asked.

That's like an isolated tribal man asking me what good is this "green paper" for when I try to give it to him in exchange for some food. He would look at me and say, "What... does it do...?" And it would have no value to him because his people do not have the same values as my people.

That's an interesting analogy. However, I would argue that your example implies the presence of two equally powerful truths, which then lends credence to my statement that your god is not the only path to happiness and freedom. You are saying that your truth loses its absolute power in the presence of the truth I hold, which undermines the absolute nature of your truth.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Even people that are not Christian understand that God exists. Even self-proclaimed Christians that are not right know that God exists. As Jesus said, "so what if you know that God exists? So do the demons, and they tremble."

So, you're extremely far behind in the understanding from my point of view. Relating to you is just not possible on that level.

It's not meant to be mean, it's just the truth.

If you want to know, then, yes, you have to invest in it.

You're funny. It's like you're saying, "First, educate me in Medicine. Once I have my doctorate, and I heal my first few people, then I will pay you for the schooling! But not until I learn that it actually works!"

You know that's not how the world works.

But you are right that God works a little differently. He does allow you to seek confirmation for things.

But if you aren't capable of even opening yourself up a little bit to allow some answers, then it would be foolish to attempt to answer. That would be like trying to put a key into a doorknob without a keyhole. Stupid and thoughtless an act that would be.

As far as my example is concerned, the things in which you find value are not the things in which I find value. This is obvious to you, isn't it?

If you want to know something, yes, you actually have to invest a little into it.

reply to post by TarzanBeta

Even people that are not Christian understand that God exists. Even self-proclaimed Christians that are not right know that God exists.

No, they understand that they don't have a better answer and don't care to find one. It's not the same thing.

So, you're extremely far behind in the understanding from my point of view. Relating to you is just not possible on that level.

Heaven forbid you actually try.

It's not meant to be mean, it's just the truth.

If you want to know, then, yes, you have to invest in it.

I'd rather believe because I investigated than investigate because I believed. There's something to be said for putting the cart behind the horse, if you catch my drift...

You're funny. It's like you're saying, "First, educate me in Medicine. Once I have my doctorate, and I heal my first few people, then I will pay you for the schooling! But not until I learn that it actually works!"

You say that like it's a bad idea.

You know that's not how the world works.

I beg to differ. Most products require a demonstration before they are put on the market. Not to mention that there are warranties available, and product returns should the merchandise prove unsatisfactory. You are going above and beyond to avoid explaining your bargain to a skeptical customer. Probably because you already know it's snake oil. I'm still waiting for you to convince me otherwise.

What does it say when the salesman is unwilling to explain the finer points of his service, despite having a golden opportunity to sell it? What does it say when the salesman is reluctant to show a customer exactly what they're getting before they actually buy it?

But you are right that God works a little differently. He does allow you to seek confirmation for things.

But if you aren't capable of even opening yourself up a little bit to allow some answers, then it would be foolish to attempt to answer. That would be like trying to put a key into a doorknob without a keyhole. Stupid and thoughtless an act that would be.

Lazy analogy. You're trying to sell me a doorknob without a keyhole by just saying, "It's magical! It'll work if you buy it! Just trust me!"

You are accusing me of having a closed mind, when I am doing everything but begging you to explain the stuff to me. I don't have a closed mind, you have a closed door. You apparently have every reason to spread the word of your god, yet when asked to do so, you refuse to. That doesn't speak well for the character of your religion. You realize that, right?

As far as my example is concerned, the things in which you find value are not the things in which I find value. This is obvious to you, isn't it?

I couldn't really say, given that you have refused to explain almost anything of your personal relationship with this god of yours.

If you want to know something, yes, you actually have to invest a little into it.

I'm asking questions. I care enough to explore the subject. Is this not enough for you? No, of course it isn't. I'm supposed to bypass investigation entirely and believe without question. That way, things I would have otherwise questioned and found to be flawed are entirely free to make themselves at home in my head. Perpetual ignorance. Not my preferred state of cognizance.

Ok...I'm back, let's see how things are progressing...

by: NOTurTypical
I think Jesus said Christians would always have a bad name on account of people's hatred for Him.

This may be true. Why do people have a hatred for them though??

As I've been trying to point out as my theory in this thread, it seems to me that at least the current dislike which seems to be against christians is actually being caused by a fringe group of radical christian groups themselves. As they become more and more extreme and increase their messages of hate toward other christians and non-christians there is a sort of blowback that occurs which effects many others than just those radical groups.

by: KaelemJames
Many Christians follow the Written Word alone, not The Spoken Word, too.

That is actually a very interesting topic in and of itself. Maybe too involved to include within this thread however, but maybe we could get into that again some other time. I like the rest of your post though. You seem to have things fairly well figured out at least IMO. I'm sure others would both agree and disagree with me however.

by: jmdewey60
Christians are better than that.
We do not hate people even if they commit despicable and revolting sins.
We want them to repent and be saved because we love them.
It is a sad but true reality that those who do not, will burn in Hell.
We just want to point that out in a loving way.
The Gay army of Satan wants to shut down that voice of God by labeling it Hate Speech, and do not care about real freedom, just the "freedom" to sin without being made to feel uncomfortable.
It will be very uncomfortable in Hell, that is more concerning to us saved and righteous Christians.
We are just better than you and that just steams you.
Sorry about that but it is the undeniable truth.

Wow, now that is really something special right there. I think I'm gonna have to come back and comment on this later cause I really just want to let it all soak in for a minute first. I'm so glad you joined in dewey. It wouldn't be the same without gems like that being thrown in!! Way to Champion that Pride and Self Righteous attitude!!

Oh, and the "Gay army of Satan" thing?!?! I'm honestly stumped for words when reading that!! Way to go buddy..

Those last two lines however are my favorite though. Just pure poetry indeed!

Good luck with all that, btw....

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by OpenEars123

 

You seemed to have overlooked the part where I said I like nice Christians, and that I like most people full stop.

So hatred is alright as long as it is well defined?

"First they came for the bad Christians, but I was not a bad Christian . . ."

You're clutching at straws, I and anyone else can see that too.

I like religious people, as long as they are not extremist bigoted zealots.

I can draw you a picture if i must??

Religious people in general do no harm to others. Extremist bigoted zealots do harm on a daily basis.
Yet it's generally all from the same book, just 'interpreted' differently..

Meh, religion is a farce IMHO..

I pity the brainwashed.

Originally posted by Fromabove

Originally posted by akushla99
Bad Christians/Good Christians?...that's got to be a joke, right?

...or are the Bad ones, the ones who have been 'saved' already, so whatever behaviour they exhibit does not change that situation?...or, or, or...

You never notice proper Christians - there is no egotistical grandstanding, no rammed-down-your-throat scripture quoting (as if they knew what it meant), there is no relegate-the-heathen-sinner-to-hell (while presuming a saved position), there is no self-serving us&them circular logic, going to hell in a handbasket, breathing sulphur fumes for eternity while the devil continues to plot and scheme all the evil ways it can trick one who refuses/is apathetic about 'being saved' - what a waste of devil-time, 'cos if you ain't been saved/don't wanna be - why waste the energy preaching to the unconverted?

The paragon of Origami...convoluted spaghetti-bowl thinking...

Grow up...

Å99

I was wondering, why do atheists have a preoccupation with spaghetti? Just asking.

Hopefully you haven't made the assumption that I am an athiest...I could have used the illustration of a tangled ball of string...with respect

Å99

reply to post by AfterInfinity


You're not looking for answers, you're looking for an argument.

I already gave you the answers that you deserve at this level. If you're not willing to learn, you can't be taught.

If you're not willing to invest yourself, you're not going to receive anything for yourself.

You're not so silly that you don't understand this.

But you want to act like you are, because you think you should receive the education first before you pay. But that's not how it works, ever.

Experience is learned by having gone through the experience.

You aren't going to be able to tell a three year old how it feels to make love. The only thing that three year old will do is scrunch his face up and think you're a lunatic (which is one of the many reasons you don't explain to a three year old what it is to make love...). Which is exactly what you're doing already, and you have only been told that it is beyond your current understanding. How much worse would your reaction be if you were actually told something?

You would be like a three year old, "Nuh uh! That can't happen! And I want McDonald's fries, right now!"

The difference is that you have a choice in choosing to be rebellious three year old that thinks he knows everything or you have the choice in being an attentive infant that respects new information, and tests it, with a clean slate.

Now if you want no part of God, that is your choice. But I warn you that is because you are judging God because of the antichrist which He warned us about. Because of all the self-proclaimed Christians that are wrong, you judge that God must not exist because of their hypocrisy.

You will only be receptive to His Spirit if one of these two things happen to you: You end up suffering greatly, and you wake up to the realities around you, or, God reveals to you by serious divine revelation.

Otherwise, what is the point?

reply to post by TarzanBeta

You're not looking for answers, you're looking for an argument.

I'm not looking for an argument, I'm looking for answers I can discuss.

I already gave you the answers that you deserve at this level. If you're not willing to learn, you can't be taught.

If I were to let anyone decide what I deserve, it wouldn't be you. Especially because of the arrogance in that statement.

If you're not willing to invest yourself, you're not going to receive anything for yourself.

Why do you play it so close to the chest? Are you afraid of showing your hand? Are you afraid of giving something away? What secrets are you so afraid of letting out?

But you want to act like you are, because you think you should receive the education first before you pay. But that's not how it works, ever.

I have given you my attention. Is that not enough? If I recall correctly, Jesus never asked for anything except for food, water, and the time to sit down and talk.

Now if you want no part of God, that is your choice. But I warn you that is because you are judging God because of the antichrist which He warned us about. Because of all the self-proclaimed Christians that are wrong, you judge that God must not exist because of their hypocrisy.

I am judging no one. I am attempting to discern the values of believing in something I know doesn't exist in the capacity proclaimed by followers worldwide. You aren't giving me much to work with.

You will only be receptive to His Spirit if one of these two things happen to you: You end up suffering greatly, and you wake up to the realities around you, or, God reveals to you by serious divine revelation.

I'm not asking him, I am asking you. What do you hope to gain or achieve in being a Christian, that you cannot gain or achieve through any other method?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


The answer is "rest".

You do not desire it, so therefore, you cannot know what it means.

Edit to add: hence why you will not understand until you suffer horribly, or you receive understanding by divine revelation.

reply to post by TarzanBeta

The answer is "rest".

Just rest? Rest from what? Please, I'm interested. Don't tell me that's the whole answer. You did a lot of dodging around for hiding just that one-word answer. I was hoping there would be more. You had me excited.

You do not desire it, so therefore, you cannot know what it means.

Edit to add: hence why you will not understand until you suffer horribly, or you receive understanding by divine revelation.

You said that your reward for being a true Christian is "rest". That's your goal in being a Christian. So the whole point of Christianity is to earn a break from the hellish reality here on Earth? Sounds an awful lot like herding to me.