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pseudo-scientific rebuttals of the possibility of ET intelligence's having a much greater understanding or technological sophistication are not acceptable, there has and to date been no credible evidence to prove beyond doubt that there are no ET intelligence's out there with the technological capabilities required to be in a stealth observational agenda with us, none
no you ain't. Now considering the terms you used to describe a respected field of study, "witch doctor or shrink", I would say you know pretty much nothing about any of it and that your view on a phenomenon that is based almost entirely on the perceptions of people, is rather meaningless.
now i aint no mental health witch doctor or shrink
anomalie
These are the same people who ignore the vast amount of data already out there credible reports (such as multiple witnesses, police, pilot, and military reports) and trace evidence all of which is worthless in their minds.
They accuse believers making leaps of logic, unaware that theyre doing it themselves and will at times resort to thinly veiled insults.
Funny really..it wouldnt bother me so much but these people have the nerve to call themselves skeptics when what theyre really are pseudo skeptics, debunkers and at worse trolls.
I would say save your breath these people have already made their minds up.
No, belief is thinking something is true based on your own personal evaluation. For example, what you consider "evidence".
Because no doubt, if this was happening for a fact, it would be worldwide. You're assuming all countries would keep it secret from other countries for their own personal reasons. The ones connected to the US, have to check with the US first. That's ridiculous. Convenient and ridiculous. So you just make up excuses for the reasons behind everything without any proof of it? Sounds like the same explanation method used for aliens visiting.
So you're working backwards... Prove they aren't here, before saying they aren't? I work the opposite. Prove they are here, in order to give it a possibility. Why? Because I understand that alien life visiting Earth would be an extraordinary event. Be it another world or dimension. Believers only trivialize this phenomena by so easily accepting "highly unusual cases" as possible alien life.
Seriously?? You believe the story of the giant skeletons are genuine?? Please go on.... because you're doing a great job of shooting down your own credibility.
Plenty of people have been "brainwashed" into the idea of aliens visiting Earth. Just look at this thread. It seems to be a successful technique that's conveniently hidden in mystery. Tall tales and fantastical stories.
Let me ask you this. Would you give an equal possibility to aliens as NAZI technology? If you do, why?
ImpactoR
And you continue to compare me with believers for whom the Alien visitation is a sound 'YES!'. What did I say in the previous posts? That my evaluation is not reaching the conclusion that there are alien visitors FOR SURE, my conclusion is - NOT EXCLUDABLE.
Do you even make the difference between taking possibilities and being certain about it based on poor evidence?? You know why you are so wrong? Because you refuse to accept more options than your belief system of 'I don't see it, therefore it's not there' - I asked you - have you had access to all classified information that exists and explains what it is to make a conclusion?
You haven't, then do not judge what something IS and what it is NOT. The position I take is - It could be Aliens or could be Not. Never did I state that the public evidence or even the secret data will disclose that for sure there are aliens. How would I know what they are without even knowing what is hidden???
It IS worldwide for F's sake... I explained it - evidence? Look at the threads here that gather such cases in the UK, in Canada, in Belgium, In Japan in some other countries - and this is not to say that these are aliens for sure, as the evidence for that is not enough to say what they are - this is to say that PROOF OF the phenomena happening WORLDWIDE... Sheesh, you know very little about that don't you?
Oh please educate yourself on the topic before you make any bold statements. If you go to the internet and see all these images of giant skeletons - they are real! Not. Perhaps read about the case at the cave - this is not your average picture of skeletons on Google images, so what makes you think those were fake?
Yes, I recently read that the Nazi may have found a way to use anti-gravity - how do you believe this, isn't it too extraordinary for you? I do not exclude it but I've heard of Werner von Braun and saying 'They helped us' to the Nazi technology and it was clear who he refers to 'They', as there is documentation of Hitler seeking and using even contactees and such for other worldly beings. And while I do not take these words as the Holy Words, I do not exclude anything unless it is proven without a doubt - wrong.
I do not exclude anything unlike you excluding that because it sounds 'too extraordinary to be real', I do not even exclude that all that could be coverup for Black Ops. But I've asked that many times - what would you possibly gain of saying that your secret machinery was aliens?? It would only make people put their nose into restricted areas even more. Also doing this for 60 years and on?
A real scientist is able to take opportunities and to possibilities when he doesn't have all the data. Denying something because it sounds too unbelievable, regardless of the fact that some data that is not proven as lies exists, is not scientific it is IGNORANCE
saying 'boohoo all that is nothing, I can't prove what is right and what is wrong from all the information', but it must be all wrong, therefore it is all wrong - so wrong approach to research...
skcussta
A very intelligent man[tom]
who researched this topic
thinks ufos are real
some stupit fools on ats dont
nuff said really
also the debunkers are really tough now since tom left the buildingedit on 25-9-2013 by skcussta because: (no reason given)
Strictly speaking about the material found as described by Jesse Marcel and Mac Brazel: Small i-beams and foil-like material, no more than 3 or 4 feet in length. Would you agree that the "spacecraft" would have had to have been at least partial constructed the same as RAWIN targets of the late 40's? Even the size of the debris found is consistent with the size of balloon cargo of the time.
To me, a spacecraft traveling our galaxy or universe that just so happens to come apart/crash in the same general area where balloon cargo regularly crash, in a time period that weather balloons are used, and is constructed exactly the same(small i-beams and foil material) as weather balloon cargo on Earth, would have to be an astronomical coincidence. You would think something completely un-relatable to anything we've ever seen would have been found. If parts of a 2013 F-22 Raptor or a B-2 bomber crashed on the ranch in 1947, there would be no doubt it was something highly advanced and never seen before.
People tend to focus just on the properties of the material. Can't be bent, burned etc. Strengthened balloon cargo type of material is a reasonable assumption for cargo that's traveling beyond the typical rawin target height and for extended periods of time. But, please respond to the construction of the spacecraft to weather balloon cargo in the 40's.
Thank you.
anomalie
reply to post by ZetaRediculian
Yeh 0 + 0 = 0 doesnt matter what operation you use it always gonna be zero...i get that.
I understand we dont have any proof of alien visitation or even if theyre responsible for UFO's but whats wrong with considering the alien hypothesis
kinda fits if you ask me..reports of strange objects making extraordinary maneuveres far more advanced than anything we currently have in the sky (if we rule out secret tech/black projects).
The point i was trying to make credible eye witness reports does matter even if it adds up to ZERO proof in the eyes of science its an important part of the UFO experience and should not be ignored like some debunkers seem to do.
neither do I. It certainly is popular around here.
So for the time being im quite happy hypothesising alien being one possibility and i dont see anything wrong with that.
I will take that as a compliment. thanks. actually I find it more interesting that you considered me at all. Good discussions are hard to come by and I've been a little on edge...should we hug or something?
Not that you care but ive never considered you 'one of those people' and yes the last few comments was naughty of me.
Mr plasm, I am not so sure about this. I am pretty certain I can come up with number of ways we wouldn't know. Other worlds, I think I follow you on that. Govt secrets Of visitation I don't find too credible. Dimensional aliens are much trickier though. Not that I give it too much thought, but what would prevent a dimensional alien from not being known?
we would know if alien beings, be it dimensional or another world, were visiting Earth. Period.
Ectoplasm8
Of course not. No more than you have access to top secret information that may or may not be hidden. You seem to have convinced yourself, or more than likely others have convinced you, there COULD BE hidden documents regarding UFOs. What they are... if they are... Therefore, you leave the door open for that possibility of anything. The difference is, I don't assume there is anything of significance because like I said... we would know if alien beings, be it dimensional or another world, were visiting Earth. Period.
Because first off, you are assuming there are documents explaining what it is. Can you not see the problem there? You seem to be basing a possibility(aliens, dimensional beings, or whatever), off an assumption(there are top secret government documents explaining it).
We have ZERO government physical evidence of anything, in any country, at any time, anywhere on Earth, ever. They are two separate issues. If you look at those two issues realistically, the public one is far more likely to procure physical evidence. ... That's what I'm addressing. You speak as if that's where the real evidence is... or should I say could be. If you believe that, you have to believe the governments of the world are doing exactly the same. Which is ridiculous.
You're talking about the red-haired "giants", correct? So again, you have a story about these giants, and you're willing to give the benefit of the doubt just because of the story? Am I right assuming that? Is that part of the "real scientist" methodology?
You heard, you read, may have, and could-bes, etc... Nothing of actual substance though. Are these quotes traceable back to the actual source? Or do you just take the word of this guy said something to this guy? So, anti-gravity could have been around for 70 years, but, nothing in those 70 years has come about to prove any of that. But that doesn't mean it's not a real thing, right? Because of the stories told. I guess it's more secret government stuff? This time by the Germans for 70 years?
I exclude it because for the past 65+ years and thousands upon thousands of witnesses, there is not a single piece of physical evidence to back up any claim of having any connection to a being of any sort. I find that extremely strange and suspect taking in account the amount of witnesses and years it's been going on! That and the fact that many are a claimed physical events! I'd be glad to accept the possibility, with something concrete to back up the stories people tell. But, a story in itself, isn't evidence enough for me. No matter how many times it's told.
Bigfoot, Loch Ness, ghosts are all possibilities as well I guess with this way of thinking.
I'm trying to have a discussion with someone that has no clue what to believe, or what not to believe. Hmph
ZetaRediculian
reply to post by Ectoplasm8
Mr plasm, I am not so sure about this. I am pretty certain I can come up with number of ways we wouldn't know. Other worlds, I think I follow you on that. Govt secrets Of visitation I don't find too credible. Dimensional aliens are much trickier though. Not that I give it too much thought, but what would prevent a dimensional alien from not being known?
we would know if alien beings, be it dimensional or another world, were visiting Earth. Period.
Dimensional beings would be what exactly? Wouldn't they be lacking in physical form that we would understand? They could be here but we could just be confusing them with hallucinations since they would be indistinguishable.
It's the word "possibility" that is really misunderstood around here. Mathematically, something is possible or it's not. On or off. Is it possible that Spider-Man is real and we don't see him because he's too fast? It's silly, right? But it's the same argument.
ImpactoR
reply to post by ZetaRediculian
Troy didn't exist, it was just a myth, evidence of it was even less than that of today's UFOs before Schliemann discovered it.
ImpactoR
reply to post by ZetaRediculian
reply to post by Ectoplasm8
So does Atlantis have to exist? After all, 'ancient cities are known to exist'.
yes, both add up to zero.
Should one take such a possibility? The evidence of it is less than the evidence of non-human technology or UFOs, whereas the latter is lacking, the first one is nearly non-existent.
In order to claim possibility of 'beings or advanced civilization or time travelers or dimensional beings or demons or call them whatever the hell you want',
there are cases..yes...I have heard of these on the interwebs. I haven't seen a really good verifiable one though. What experts?
there is cases that defy technology of human achievements, that are claimed even by experts to not be anything known, some military who would have an idea how more advanced the Industrial Complex is also doubt of some of the cases man-made nature.
I do not understand contactees, I do not consider them reliable. Though as long as they do not go into occulting and things that just like dreaming could be nothing more than imagination (though define imagination in dreams, I have many cases of dreaming random places, meeting people I never know at the time of the dream and talking or doing things that later make me remember them, this happened rare but I can account more than thirty times for the last several years).
Ok forget aliens,
do you think projects on the human mind, manipulation, mind control and even dreams experiments such as those at Montauk never happened? Or they also are 'not enough evidence, thus no possibility'.
Now if you happen to believe in such mind experiments and things that 'open' the mind abilities like telepathy and contactees (I do not believe any of those!), then how do you know there isn't anything in these experiments. And contactees to be real, after all how many people claim to be contactees, only specific people.
Now combine contactees and alien encounters and all the cases you've got and unexplained things in the human history and evolution plus at least some myths who turned out true
wait a second...I already combined them in the first part. Ghosts are unexplained as is the loch ness monster And the Flying Spaghetti Monster does exist.
The combination of all that makes a fair possibility, and no one is to compare that with Loh Nes, ghosts, spaghetti monster, pink ponies (oh they do exist).
Why didn't I see whistleblower say:
Yes, the whole alien propaganda was started X years ago, the idea was to cover up our projects blah blah blah
What you are saying is...?
why didn't I see any leaked documents of the truth? Ok bash alien documents and call them fake, most of them are, anyway,,,
now where is the real evidence. Oh that's right it is as much PUBLIC as the one about UFOS