My name is Tom Carey, and I have spent the past 22 years researching the Roswell incident. Ask me an

reply to post by Ectoplasm8

I was hoping they came from a slightly different frequency or beat-pattern offset and that it would be about physics and so called dimensions instead of "aliens from outer space." Maybe they don't need craft to be heavy duty nuts&bolts but semi-organic frequency envelopes more like an energy-jellyfish than a submarine.

Then again, wasn't it the vikings who made it across the sea in those impossibly little boats? We'd never have believed that without a lot of physical traces.

(I was going to use an emoticon there, but since the redesign they are retarded now, and would embarrass me.)

Never mind the flamethrowers Tom. If you ever have a few minutes to respond to my post with questions from earlier in the thread, which is here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
I would be very grateful.

Best regards,
PJ

system dupe

reply to post by Ectoplasm8


I'm not really 'battling' anything. I'm offering what I think is an example of critical thinking on a subject that a lot of people wish were explained, wish were true.

You have to make a supposition and that's that IF an ET presence were in existence in our Solar System there would be signs. Is it possible that a non-terrestrial (NT) exploration would use high stealth? Yes. Is it likely, is it financially feasible? So for the sake of argument, in the absence of clear or even distant signs of a NT presence, we have to try and explain cases of high strangeness using more prosaic methods.

As I said I was an ardent UFO/ETH believer back in the day. But having read almost everything out there, having thought about all the 'cases', I've come around to realizing that there isn't anything that requires a NT explanation.

Are there high strangeness cases? Yes! Does a NT explanation help anything? Not really. By saying 'it's aliens' we miss out on explaining how thing can happen, we stop looking deeply, we stop being rational, we stop using the most likely analyses.

Is it possible that outliers are the cause of some high strangeness? Yes, but it's better to work through the higher likely possibilities first.

How would we know there is a NT explanation? We'd see evidence of them on Mars and the Moon. We don't see that, at least not out in the open. Is it highly likely that ET would camp out secretly, not really. We can't reach them so what's the reason?

On the other hand if NTs want to be stealthy we'd never, ever detect them. There would be no 'traces', no atmospheric visible craft, no night time lights. If there are, these are RPVs, holograms, Earthly experimental crafts, misidentifications or misperceptions. We should assume those explanations first.

But the real problem is that of hoaxers, liars and those who would proselytize an ETH in the real absence of one. If they are out there creating chaos, we won't get to the bottom of the true highly strange cases.

reply to post by Maverick7




There could very well be signs of a ET presence not only in our solar system but in the dimensions we occupy but we have not detected it because we have not the required technology to do so, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We are hardly even beyond the understandings of sending men to our moon never mind in any way evolved enough to even understand interstellar space travel, parallel universes and extra and inner dimensions. 20/30 years ago the latter would have been laughed at but advances in the areas of physics like quantum mechanics and astro physics are beginning to manifest the perceptions that are not fantasy and are a real possibility.

It really is a real wonder to hear people claim that their rebuttals of any thing ET has to be or is expected to be taken as proof that no ET intelligence's are evolved enough,smart enough and are using levels of technological capabilities that we have never even perceived of and more importantly thought possible...

why is that mind set so typical of those who reject any real possibility of ET intelligence's?? well its because of one major primary perception and that is they are rejecting and judging on what science CURRENTLY understands at the presence, they judge everything based on what is currently KNOWN not on what is STILL to be known, science in its current form does not know all there is to know about every thing in our or other universes and those who claim it is or judge or reject by it are the ones to avoid in my mind anyway..


High strangeness data is in its self transparent to a point that it is manifesting and imply that we cannot approach such data from a bias scientific view point or what we currently know.When objects have been witnessed to perform fight characteristics out of any known flight character or acceptable technological capabilities then that reality deserves total attention for when we add to that signs of intelligent control then we are in a whole new level of reality and it cannot be played down as merely insignificant, when it is played down or implied it is insignificant i feel it is done so out of a "brushing it under the carpet" mentality, not from a scientific perspective and that is grievous and unjustified because it is showing that the reality of ET or other forms of intelligence,(extra dimensional), performing unknown or advanced scientific methods of stimuli is in fact the evidence that current science does not know all there is to know and that the "possible" cannot be taken out of the "possibility" until that "possibility" is shown or proven by the correct set of scientific methods and protocols not to exist... and not just by mere personal speculations in favor of the ET rejection...

reply to post by K-PAX-PROT

why is that mind set so typical of those who reject any real possibility of ET intelligence's?? well its because of one major primary perception and that is they are rejecting and judging on what science CURRENTLY understands at the presence, they judge everything based on what is currently KNOWN not on what is STILL to be known, science in its current form does not know all there is to know about every thing in our or other universes and those who claim it is or judge or reject by it are the ones to avoid in my mind anyway..

So there are possible ET intelligences flying around that evade us so effectively that we can't prove that they exist. So these things are not known to exist now but are to be known to exist in the future if they do exist but we won't be able to prove it because they are so good at evading us. So there's really not much we can do about it even if they exist. It's a bit like chasing your tail. A good thing to do might be to brush up on some currently known things and wait for them to reveal themselves. By that time, you could be really smart.

So you feel that the high strangeness data is proof positive that ET is here flying around in our air space? What do you consider "high strange" data?

I thought this was strange:

Fighter pilots subjected to high G-forces in flight (or sometimes in training centrifuges) have reported OBEs as well as much more elaborate states of consciousness that resemble the near-death experience.

www.theatlantic.com...

A near-death experience (NDE) refers to personal experiences associated with impending death, encompassing multiple possible sensations including detachment from the body, feelings of levitation, total serenity, security, warmth, the experience of absolute dissolution, and the presence of a light.

In the 1990s, Rick Strassman conducted research on the psychedelic drug dimethyltryptamine (D M T) at the University of New Mexico.[61][62][63] Strassman advanced the theory that a massive release of D M T from the pineal gland prior to death or near-death was the cause of the near-death experience phenomenon. Only two of his test subjects reported NDE-like aural or visual hallucinations, although many reported feeling as though they had entered a state similar to the classical NDE.

en.wikipedia.org...

When ingested, D M T acts as a psychedelic drug.[7] Depending on the dose and method of administration, its subjective effects can range from short-lived milder psychedelic states to powerful immersive experiences; these are often described as a total loss of connection to conventional reality with the encounter of indescribable spiritual/alien realms.[8]

en.wikipedia.org...

And they let these people fly?

Now one possibility is that the Air Force is well aware of all the current ways pilots perceive and mispercieve. So what may look like something being swept under the carpet is just run of the mill high strange adrenalin super fun time.

So UFO visions are common among people that take D M T?

I have heard of such stories by Westerners who have taken ayahuasca, Psilocybin
cubensis, or pure (D M T)dimethyltryptamine. As Valle (1979:209-10) has pointed out,
the UFOs are physical manifestations that cannot be understood apart from
their psychic and symbolic reality. The UFO motif is a subject that should
not be neglected by cognitive anthropologists, depth psychologists, and
people interested in the mythologies of modern man.

miqel.com...

Now before you have brain aneurism, this is not proof of anything. It is just simply implying that pilots are flying around tripping their brains out.

ZetaRediculian
So you feel that the high strangeness data is proof positive that ET is here flying around in our air space? What do you consider "high strange" data?

I thought this was strange:

Fighter pilots subjected to high G-forces in flight (or sometimes in training centrifuges) have reported OBEs as well as much more elaborate states of consciousness that resemble the near-death experience.

www.theatlantic.com...

A near-death experience (NDE) refers to personal experiences associated with impending death, encompassing multiple possible sensations including detachment from the body, feelings of levitation, total serenity, security, warmth, the experience of absolute dissolution, and the presence of a light.

And they let these people fly?

Now one possibility is that the Air Force is well aware of all the current ways pilots perceive and mispercieve. So what may look like something being swept under the carpet is just run of the mill high strange adrenalin super fun time.

So UFO visions are common among people that take D M T?

Now before you have brain aneurism, this is not proof of anything. It is just simply implying that pilots are flying around tripping their brains out.

Thats an interesting article in the Atlantic and an interesting connection made between high G forces and NDEs and OBEs.

You rather weaken whatever hypothesis you are promoting with your last statement.

There is not a single reference in this material to pilots experiencing UFOs while conducting maneuvers producing high G forces.

And the number of pilots who experience high G forces is very few, predominantly just fighter pilots in training or during dogfights.

So I doubt that there are a lot of pilots "flying around tripping their brains out".

i remember reading a book many years ago with a interview with a sheriff's daughter where he came home after this incident and the thing that struck me was the words not wow we found aliens but the engine run on water ever see this

reply to post by TomCarey


These "Ask me anything" initiative threads, flag them and don't let them disappear please.They are far to important.

reply to post by Maverick7

You're debating members that form their beliefs based on stories told and opinions by "experts" in regards to Roswell. It's hardly a crowd you'll get to by trying to use examples of critical thinking. It's not much of a personal search, rather one of believing things through the eyes of others.

If we were indeed being visited by alien beings for the last several decades, centuries, whenever... we would know. Especially with a phenomena that's claimed to be a one-on-one, physical relationship with humans. They land, they interact with us, they crash, etc. Yet, nothing as of today to prove any of that. On a very basic level, it should be understood that if they were here, we would know for a fact. However, appealing on whatever level you choose, doesn't seem to sink in with many.

reply to post by bluestreak53

You rather weaken whatever hypothesis you are promoting with your last statement.

There is not a single reference in this material to pilots experiencing UFOs while conducting maneuvers producing high G forces.

And the number of pilots who experience high G forces is very few, predominantly just fighter pilots in training or during dogfights.

So I doubt that there are a lot of pilots "flying around tripping their brains out".

I actually don't disagree with you. The comment was a little silly on my part but not too far off. There is no connection to gloc and UFO sightings and no link to D M T. but it does make you wonder just what is going on. I think its more common than you think though. here is an article about the actual study. www.near-death.com...

Ectoplasm8
reply to post by Maverick7

 

You're debating members that form their beliefs based on stories told and opinions by "experts" in regards to Roswell. It's hardly a crowd you'll get to by trying to use examples of critical thinking. It's not much of a personal search, rather one of believing things through the eyes of others.

If we were indeed being visited by alien beings for the last several decades, centuries, whenever... we would know. Especially with a phenomena that's claimed to be a one-on-one, physical relationship with humans. They land, they interact with us, they crash, etc. Yet, nothing as of today to prove any of that. On a very basic level, it should be understood that if they were here, we would know for a fact. However, appealing on whatever level you choose, doesn't seem to sink in with many.

That's a rather bold statement... We would know? Are you new to the topic because there is enough evidence or clues that something is going on. Whether there are dimensions, invisibility or what else, even with that there has been cases of weird things, humanoids, craft been seen. Out of the many cases there's got to be some real cases. Saying that every single case was a fabricated and disinfo is not real.

Also one can be certain the USAF are covering up a lot of things in that regards, I can give examples of things and I wonder 'why on Earth would they not tell??' then it's clear they are just having an agenda of never revealing such things to public - yes so far there is a lot of other documents and things still hidden from public, I am certain. Do I need to give examples of how many coverups been done? If it is just to hide their projects, why are the cases so securely protected as if there is some actual truth in them?

From what I see, anything that may shatter religion, the current political-social-economic system or our basic understanding of history (and not casual discoveries that would not affect the world as a whole), are all hidden from public. Why is that? I don't know if there are any beings here or not, but I do know you cannot be certain there aren't some beings of some sort - dimensional, ET, terrestrial like the reports on caves'

Ignoring all the documentation that exists about the topic is like putting your head in the sand, cause there is clearly something being hidden and it seems more than military projects...

reply to post by ImpactoR

We absolutely would know. You speak of "dimensions, invisibility or whatever else". You provided your own answer for those type of claims. An invisible or dimensional life form might not leave trace evidence behind. But, reread my statement. I'm commenting on the physical cases that people report, which are in the majority with this phenomena. The landings, abductions, crashes, physical sightings of alien beings, etc. How would you explain away the lack of physical evidence in all of those cases when people report it's a physical event? These don't involve the government at all. So you can't hide behind the U.S. government hidden agenda excuse.

The United States is a small portion of the landmass on Earth. An alien species visiting another world is more than likely doing so out of scientific curiosity. It won't be concentrating on one specific area. If they are fallible and physical creatures, which people claim, they will not only crash on properties controlled by the U.S. government. You would have to believe the governments of the world are collectively working in cahoots with each other to hide these alien visitors.

You may say the aliens are visiting because of our development of nuclear weapons. How would you explain the successful testing of these weapons? Why no intervention into Hiroshima or Nagasaki? The stopping of one of the tests by US, UK, Russian, France, or Chinese? Apparently they can shut down nuclear missile silos or instrumentation on aircraft. Seems like a better message would be to simply stop a nuclear bomb test. But they chose to play games instead? Makes no logical sense with serious subject such as nuclear weapons.

I wish believers would stop naively using the tactic of skeptics/debunkers/non-believers are not familiar with the serious or good cases. That's a ridiculous assumption and of course completely wrong. Use Roswell as proof of that. It's supposedly the holy grail of UFO cases. Yet, there's nothing physically factual about it.

reply to post by Ectoplasm8


I am not even a believer but I am not a skeptic. For me it's not enough public evidence to either prove or disprove it. Unlike skeptics, I do not dismiss something when the circumstances suggest such an option.

Even if we leave dimensions and things like that (for which I am even more doubtful if such exist), we have cases where lots of military people have claimed in some cases the technology exceeds that of humans. For me that is not enough to be certain that there are aliens visiting here but I am open minded based on not knowing what it is.

Physical evidence - if we talk about physical traces after a UFO, oh there are plenty of cases where some traces are left. If we talk about whether these UFOs are aliens, yes, then even increased radiation, some silvery marks or drops on the ground, some circle formed on the ground, deformation, burned grass - these could still be a result of man-made craft as we don't see the actual pilot.

I would have to say the U.S has the biggest phony stories because indeed, most of the UFO cases are reported there and there is no way it would happen just in the US. Also who ever said the cases are only in the US? Belgium, Poland, China oh and the anomalous Yakutsk area in Siberia, Russia, Japan, India.. only the US?

Also speaking of global coverup - let's say that there was something that crashed at Roswell, why would they reveal it to the public? Need I list the reasons not to do so? Then Russia shoots down some UFO - why should they tell. China has found something - why should they tell anybody?

If there is just one big nothing, then why the coverup? Why, why why? Just writing books? Why not go for Star Trek and similar where you know it's fiction and it is still widely bought and read with interest.

Also the public evidence is insufficient to conclude either. You think there is nothing else classified? What would that mean, that the government just don't know what they are dealing with.

I am recently watching some parts of 'Citizen Hearing' and i see a hell lots of' We have no evidence of such things existing' and yet 'we do make sure some things don't go public'...

ImpactoR


I am not even a believer but I am not a skeptic. For me it's not enough public evidence to either prove or disprove it. Unlike skeptics, I do not dismiss something when the circumstances suggest such an option.

Even if we leave dimensions and things like that (for which I am even more doubtful if such exist), we have cases where lots of military people have claimed in some cases the technology exceeds that of humans. For me that is not enough to be certain that there are aliens visiting here but I am open minded based on not knowing what it is.

Physical evidence - if we talk about physical traces after a UFO, oh there are plenty of cases where some traces are left. If we talk about whether these UFOs are aliens, yes, then even increased radiation, some silvery marks or drops on the ground, some circle formed on the ground, deformation, burned grass - these could still be a result of man-made craft as we don't see the
actual pilot.

You actually sound like a believer, that's in denial of believing. The fact still remains, after 65+ years - there has not been any physical evidence to show we are being visited by alien beings. Stories, radiation traces, trampled grass, etc. is not factual evidence of alien life visiting Earth. It can be a belief it is, but it's not a fact and can't be treated so.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would have to say the U.S has the biggest phony stories because indeed, most of the UFO cases are reported there and there is no way it would happen just in the US. Also who ever said the cases are only in the US? Belgium, Poland, China oh and the anomalous Yakutsk area in Siberia, Russia, Japan, India.. only the US?

That comment was to you stating:

Also one can be certain the USAF are covering up a lot of things in that regards, I can give examples of things and I wonder 'why on Earth would they not tell??' then it's clear they are just having an agenda of never revealing such things to public... etc etc.

Because if that's your belief, you also have to believe the governments of the world are working together to hide alien visitation. You stated you didn't believe the phenomena was exclusive to the U.S. Then how do you explain nothing physical from any other country in all of these years? Your argument works great in the confines of the U.S., but it falls apart when you include the entire planet. Again, every government that ever had a UFO crash or alien bodies in their possession, would have to be working in cahoots with each other. Kind of a silly premise. Especially when this phenomena is claimed mostly to involve everyday citizens.

It's funny you mention Yakutsk area in Siberia. As with Roswell, this is also based on stories and myths, only this one for 70+ years. There has been nothing physical found with these claimed underground metal domes. And even if they are found.. alien created rather than human? Just the mention in the context of an alien/UFO conversation, shows your level of acceptance as a possibility.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also speaking of global coverup - let's say that there was something that crashed at Roswell, why would they reveal it to the public? Need I list the reasons not to do so? Then Russia shoots down some UFO - why should they tell. China has found something - why should they tell anybody?

That's not a realistic scenario. Because you would have to believe every single crashed spacecraft landed on government property where they would rush in and remove all of the evidence. But, the phenomena is overwhelmingly public, not wrapped up only in the governments/military. See the skeptical questioning in that? Your statements and questions lean more to a believer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

If there is just one big nothing, then why the coverup? Why, why why? Just writing books? Why not go for Star Trek and similar where you know it's fiction and it is still widely bought and read with interest.

Also the public evidence is insufficient to conclude either. You think there is nothing else classified? What would that mean, that the government just don't know what they are dealing with.

I am recently watching some parts of 'Citizen Hearing' and i see a hell lots of' We have no evidence of such things existing' and yet 'we do make sure some things don't go public'...

On one hand you're saying there's no public evidence. On the other you say why is there a coverup. You seem to be confused on your stance and hide in this state of vagueness. However, you do seem to be someone impressed with a title. A government official etc. as it seems to give more credence to a story for you.

reply to post by Ectoplasm8

The fact still remains, after 65+ years - there has not been any PUBLIC physical evidence to show we are being visited by alien beings.

Fixed... public evidence. For the one that they still have their hands on... who even knows what evidence they have? Do you make the difference between evaluation of possibilities and belief? It seems not, belief is based on blind hope of something existing without any reason or evidence, evaluation is based on some data that suggests the possibility.

Did I say anywhere that the PUBLIC evidence is the perfect evidence for aliens visiting us? No, I said it suggests the possibiltiy because we all know - there is deeper and more classified than those public documents.

Because if that's your belief, you also have to believe the governments of the world are working together to hide alien visitation.

Why TOGETHER? Each of the countries could keep the secrets based on what they have on their territory on their own, that's why I am saying. If they have contact with such beings, each nation would HIDE its own findings, unless agreed to reveal it to USAF. E.g South American countries if you don't know - lots of USAF presence there, Australia - lots of USAF presence, UK - the same. But CHina, Russia - they would have their own secrets, not TOGETHER

Where did I state that if such a secret exists , they all keep the secret together? They do not, they keep the secret BOTH from other countries and THE PUBLIC.


The evidence of hiding SOMETHING is big - I do not believe it, it is a fact, the question is what is it. I am not claiming the Govs necessarily hide documents of aliens - it could be something else, other beings, as well as own scientific Nazi technology, but I am saying - why is the coverup and so big talk about aliens when no one will be so brainwashed to believe UFOs are absolutely aliens? Many people know there is military technology, who would even think of all UFOs being aliens only because of the movies and the constant alien propaganda?

My point is if the whole Alien stuff is just to make people forget that this is military technology, using ALIENS as a coverup does not help at all, further, when a lot of questions remain unanswered - the evolution of the HUMAN MIND, possible sightings and occurences during the centuries

All this doesn't at least make you open mind for some sort of other WORLD life? Of course not, but I do not exclude and until I get a solid answer, this skepticism - claiming what something is NOT when you don';t even know what IT IS - is just pseudoscience.

The real scientist makes no conclusions of any kind, saying what it is not - this is not any better than saying what it is.

When I say ALIENS, I don't absolutely mean 'beings from another planet or galaxy' - it could be dimensions or even old Earth inhabitants like the talk about ancient humanoid race that leaves in the deepest unexplored caves of Earth!

There is no doubt in my mind what so ever, there are things in our skies all over the Earth, and bellow the Earth hell maybe even in the Earth as well, that is not made from Human beings. Not in the present or the past..

Now the how, what, and when, no one knows, and if they do, they are locked away unlocking the mysteries of the universe, and sure as hell not here on ats. Nothing personal ATS, but we know this..

Also, In theory I do not think we can comprehend the existance of E.T's and their technology because it does not fit into our understanding of logic.. I have tried to corelate words together before to try to express this great divide to no avail on ats, and I am sure as hell not going to try to raise the IQ numbers for ATS members as a whole ever again...

Their is enough information available for people to see the truth here... Its just not accepted and has allot to do with what I am trying to explain...

I hope I did not come across as a troll in a tux, I just wanted to add..

Dont reply or anything just wanted to post, just think if anything...

reply to post by Ectoplasm8


So there are lots of Top Secret documents still hidden from public regarding the topic, instead of saying 'I am not gonna say what there is or there is NOT until I have these documents and all that the people who hide it tell us what they know and have', you prefer to say 'It doesn't exist becuase I don't have the evidence'

You
don't
have
the evidence?

Have you seen all classified that exists?
Been to the Vatican and seen their most secret documents?
The UFO topic has always been one of the most classified, some researchers say per documents - 'More secret even than the H bomb'

Your lack of evidence matters how to the actual existence of something? See? That's why it's good to not exclude anything until you have the data. This is the real science - yes, do not claim something exists when you don't have enough data but in such case be open minded about things that could lead into this direction... That's the real scientist

And for myths, some so called myths have happened, why should not be open minded for others to have happened? There was evidence of the David vs Goliath myth, the city existed, the Lovelock cave giants were a myth where Indians shot arrows. later they did found those.. why should you limit yourself and not think what else may NOT BE a mytH?

Anyone who isn't open minded to expect ANYTHING on a topic like that is pseudo-scientific and I don't care whether they graduated from the top universities... My approach is objective and liquid - it takes the shape of anything that pushes in one direction or another. Right now the possibility of having some contact exists, this is not a belief, simply evaluation of data - cases, what we know about the human mind, how it came to be one day, what was the things that people have been seeing during the centuries.

ImpactoR
reply to post by Ectoplasm8

 

So there are lots of Top Secret documents still hidden from public regarding the topic, instead of saying 'I am not gonna say what there is or there is NOT until I have these documents and all that the people who hide it tell us what they know and have', you prefer to say 'It doesn't exist becuase I don't have the evidence'

You
don't
have
the evidence?

Have you seen all classified that exists?
Been to the Vatican and seen their most secret documents?
The UFO topic has always been one of the most classified, some researchers say per documents - 'More secret even than the H bomb'

Your lack of evidence matters how to the actual existence of something? See? That's why it's good to not exclude anything until you have the data. This is the real science - yes, do not claim something exists when you don't have enough data but in such case be open minded about things that could lead into this direction... That's the real scientist

And for myths, some so called myths have happened, why should not be open minded for others to have happened? There was evidence of the David vs Goliath myth, the city existed, the Lovelock cave giants were a myth where Indians shot arrows. later they did found those.. why should you limit yourself and not think what else may NOT BE a mytH?

Anyone who isn't open minded to expect ANYTHING on a topic like that is pseudo-scientific and I don't care whether they graduated from the top universities... My approach is objective and liquid - it takes the shape of anything that pushes in one direction or another. Right now the possibility of having some contact exists, this is not a belief, simply evaluation of data - cases, what we know about the human mind, how it came to be one day, what was the things that people have been seeing during the centuries.

edit on 24-9-2013 by ImpactoR because: (no reason given)

pseudo-scientific rebuttals of the possibility of ET intelligence's having a much greater understanding or technological sophistication are not acceptable, there has and to date been no credible evidence to prove beyond doubt that there are no ET intelligence's out there with the technological capabilities required to be in a stealth observational agenda with us, none.... , mental discrepancies ect may sound fine and dandy to those who want to hear it but not for this cat, no way, to many high strangeness data in 1000s of cases involving highly credible sources ect with multiple witnesses backed up by multiple radar involving objects emitting no recognizable aviation beckons , now i aint no mental health witch doctor or shrink but that data its self is screaming concern to me and again i will say i am just glad that those pushing this as no evidence or that its all misconceptions are NOT in charge of defending my countries air spaces....lol....

ImpactoR

Fixed... public evidence. For the one that they still have their hands on... who even knows what evidence they have? Do you make the difference between evaluation of possibilities and belief? It seems not, belief is based on blind hope of something existing without any reason or evidence, evaluation is based on some data that suggests the possibility.

No, belief is thinking something is true based on your own personal evaluation. For example, what you consider "evidence".

So your data consists of stories told that are sometimes second and third hand? Statements without anything of value to back them up?

----------------------------------

Why TOGETHER? Each of the countries could keep the secrets based on what they have on their territory on their own, that's why I am saying. If they have contact with such beings, each nation would HIDE its own findings, unless agreed to reveal it to USAF. E.g South American countries if you don't know - lots of USAF presence there, Australia - lots of USAF presence, UK - the same. But CHina, Russia - they would have their own secrets, not TOGETHER

Where did I state that if such a secret exists , they all keep the secret together? They do not, they keep the secret BOTH from other countries and THE PUBLIC.

You have to make it into this extremely convenient perfect package in order to keep this myth alive worldwide. Because no doubt, if this was happening for a fact, it would be worldwide. You're assuming all countries would keep it secret from other countries for their own personal reasons. The ones connected to the US, have to check with the US first. That's ridiculous. Convenient and ridiculous. So you just make up excuses for the reasons behind everything without any proof of it? Sounds like the same explanation method used for aliens visiting.

---------------------------------

The evidence of hiding SOMETHING is big - I do not believe it, it is a fact, the question is what is it. I am not claiming the Govs necessarily hide documents of aliens - it could be something else, other beings, as well as own scientific Nazi technology, but I am saying - why is the coverup and so big talk about aliens when no one will be so brainwashed to believe UFOs are absolutely aliens? Many people know there is military technology, who would even think of all UFOs being aliens only because of the movies and the constant alien propaganda?

My point is if the whole Alien stuff is just to make people forget that this is military technology, using ALIENS as a coverup does not help at all, further, when a lot of questions remain unanswered - the evolution of the HUMAN MIND, possible sightings and occurrences during the centuries

Plenty of people have been "brainwashed" into the idea of aliens visiting Earth. Just look at this thread. It seems to be a successful technique that's conveniently hidden in mystery. Tall tales and fantastical stories.

Let me ask you this. Would you give an equal possibility to aliens as NAZI technology? If you do, why?

---------------------------------------

All this doesn't at least make you open mind for some sort of other WORLD life? Of course not, but I do not exclude and until I get a solid answer, this skepticism - claiming what something is NOT when you don';t even know what IT IS - is just pseudoscience.

So you're working backwards... Prove they aren't here, before saying they aren't? I work the opposite. Prove they are here, in order to give it a possibility. Why? Because I understand that alien life visiting Earth would be an extraordinary event. Be it another world or dimension. Believers only trivialize this phenomena by so easily accepting "highly unusual cases" as possible alien life.

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The real scientist makes no conclusions of any kind, saying what it is not - this is not any better than saying what it is.

Explain that to the majority of "real scientists" out there that don't believe this phenomena without something concrete. Bringing "science" into the mix is another tactic. As if believers are the ones approaching this scientifically. Nothing new there.

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When I say ALIENS, I don't absolutely mean 'beings from another planet or galaxy' - it could be dimensions or even old Earth inhabitants like the talk about ancient humanoid race that leaves in the deepest unexplored caves of Earth!

Yep, "the talk about" humanoid race living beneath the Earth. Couldn't have said it better to make my point.....

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So there are lots of Top Secret documents still hidden from public regarding the topic, instead of saying 'I am not goanna say what there is or there is NOT until I have these documents and all that the people who hide it tell us what they know and have', you prefer to say 'It doesn't exist because I don't have the evidence'

No, I prefer to say alien life has not visited Earth because there has been nothing physical to show that. Only stories. I frankly don't care what a document says. I still would want to see verifiable physical evidence. Would you? Or would you just believe what you're told?

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You
don't
have
the evidence?

Have you seen all classified that exists?
Been to the Vatican and seen their most secret documents?
The UFO topic has always been one of the most classified, some researchers say per documents - 'More secret even than the H bomb'

I think you've been watching too many episodes of Ancient Aliens. The Vatican? What exactly has been revealed by the Vatican that says aliens are here or have been here? More stories?

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And for myths, some so called myths have happened, why should not be open minded for others to have happened? There was evidence of the David vs Goliath myth, the city existed, the Lovelock cave giants were a myth where Indians shot arrows. later they did found those.. why should you limit yourself and not think what else may NOT BE a myth?

Seriously?? You believe the story of the giant skeletons are genuine?? Please go on.... because you're doing a great job of shooting down your own credibility.

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