Watch Aussie PM's same-sex smackdown

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posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 03:33 AM
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Since a topic regarding Homosexuality has once again gone the way of Religion, if i may

Religion has no precedence over any law or any of the people, personal belief is one thing, and if you want to base your thought on the Bible and if you remain to judge everyone based off of the Bible that is your personal thought and belief

but as much as people claim us Gays throw it in everyone's face, take a look at Religion.




posted on Sep, 5 2013 @ 06:31 AM
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Originally posted by LexiconV
... show me the passages in the bible where your jesus condemns homosexuality.
... please.


I don't think Jesus said anything against it, but I did hear something about the Bible saying that it is OK to be gay as long as you smoke marijuana.



posted on Sep, 6 2013 @ 01:36 AM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf

Yet throughout history religion and Christianity in America has tried to hold back social progress. Saying its the end of the world and satan is taking over... and then a few years down the road ITS WAS THEM ALL ALONG that made the social progress possible.... right...


It is a fact that the abolition movement was mainly a Christian movement. If you don't like that, just reject my reality and replace it with your own.


Originally posted by WertdagfNo doubt in a few years Christians will have deluded themselves to the point where they believe THEY ended discrimination of sexual orientation.


This hasn't happened, you have no logical basis to say this.


Originally posted by Wertdagf"Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated." - Isaiah 13:16


This is a total derailment of the thread, it has nothing to do with same sex marriage or slavery in the Bible.

But I will answer your poke.

Once again someone is using an Old Testament scripture to say that the God of the Bible is evil. Or that God is just another tribal God that is vindictive and capricious as much as each other tribe or nation had their own god they prayed to for good crops and military victory.

The OT is the sad record of a people trying to be good without the benefit of being born again in the spirit, that Jesus made possible. This attempt sucked. God knew it would.

Gal 3:1 You stupid Galatians! I told you exactly how Jesus Christ was nailed to a cross. Has someone now put an evil spell on you?
Gal 3:2 I want to know only one thing. How were you given God's Spirit? Was it by obeying the Law of Moses or by hearing about Christ and having faith in him?
Gal 3:3 How can you be so stupid? Do you think that by yourself you can complete what God's Spirit started in you?
Gal 3:4 Have you gone through all of this for nothing? Is it all really for nothing?
Gal 3:5 God gives you his Spirit and works miracles in you. But does he do this because you obey the Law of Moses or because you have heard about Christ and have faith in him?
Gal 3:6 The Scriptures say that God accepted Abraham because Abraham had faith.
Gal 3:7 And so, you should understand that everyone who has faith is a child of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 Long ago the Scriptures said that God would accept the Gentiles because of their faith. That's why God told Abraham the good news that all nations would be blessed because of him.
Gal 3:9 This means that everyone who has faith will share in the blessings that were given to Abraham because of his faith.
Gal 3:10 Anyone who tries to please God by obeying the Law is under a curse. The Scriptures say, "Everyone who doesn't obey everything in the Law is under a curse."
Gal 3:11 No one can please God by obeying the Law. The Scriptures also say, "The people God accepts because of their faith will live."
Gal 3:12 The Law isn't based on faith. It promises life only to people who obey its commands.
Gal 3:13 But Christ rescued us from the Law's curse, when he became a curse in our place. This is because the Scriptures say that anyone who is nailed to a tree is under a curse.
Gal 3:14 And because of what Jesus Christ has done, the blessing that was promised to Abraham was taken to the Gentiles. This happened so that by faith we would be given the promised Holy Spirit.
Gal 3:15 My friends, I will use an everyday example to explain what I mean. Once someone agrees to something, no one else can change or cancel the agreement.
Gal 3:16 That is how it is with the promises God made to Abraham and his descendant. The promises were not made to many descendants, but only to one, and that one is Christ.
Gal 3:17 What I am saying is that the Law cannot change or cancel God's promise that was made 430 years before the Law was given.
Gal 3:18 If we have to obey the Law in order to receive God's blessings, those blessings don't really come to us because of God's promise. But God was kind to Abraham and made him a promise.
Gal 3:19 What is the use of the Law? It was given later to show that we sin. But it was only supposed to last until the coming of that descendant who was given the promise. In fact, angels gave the Law to Moses, and he gave it to the people.
Gal 3:20 There is only one God, and the Law did not come directly from him.
Gal 3:21 Does the Law disagree with God's promises? No, it doesn't! If any law could give life to us, we could become acceptable to God by obeying that law.
Gal 3:22 But the Scriptures say that sin controls everyone, so that God's promises will be for anyone who has faith in Jesus Christ.
Gal 3:23 The Law controlled us and kept us under its power until the time came when we would have faith.
Gal 3:24 In fact, the Law was our teacher. It was supposed to teach us until we had faith and were acceptable to



posted on Sep, 6 2013 @ 01:43 AM
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cont.
al 3:24 In fact, the Law was our teacher. It was supposed to teach us until we had faith and were acceptable to God.
Gal 3:25 But once a person has learned to have faith, there is no more need to have the Law as a teacher.
Gal 3:26 All of you are God's children because of your faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 And when you were baptized, it was as though you had put on Christ in the same way you put on new clothes.
Gal 3:28 Faith in Christ Jesus is what makes each of you equal with each other, whether you are a Jew or a Greek, a slave or a free person, a man or a woman.
Gal 3:29 So if you belong to Christ, you are now part of Abraham's family, and you will be given what God has promised.


Romans 7:7 Does this mean that the Law is sinful? Certainly not! But if it had not been for the Law, I would not have known what sin is really like. For example, I would not have known what it means to want something that belongs to someone else, unless the Law had told me not to do that.


So what you have there is a scripture that shows how one nation is treating another nation. Pretty bad huh? God knew that, that is why he sent Jesus.


Getting back to topic:
Why the OT laws about slaves? For the same reason he let them divorce just by giving divorce papers

Mat 19:7 The Pharisees asked Jesus, "Why did Moses say that a man could write out divorce papers and send his wife away?"
Mat 19:8 Jesus replied, "You are so heartless! That's why Moses allowed you to divorce your wife. But from the beginning God did not intend it to be that way.
Mat 19:9 I say that if your wife has not committed some terrible sexual sin, you must not divorce her to marry someone else. If you do, you are unfaithful."

If you were to study history, you would see that the laws regarding slaves in Israel in OT times were to protect the slaves, they are the kindest slavery laws ever. The fact is they were going to have slaves, so God told them to treat them well.
edit on 6/9/13 by Cinrad because: (no reason given)
edit on 6/9/13 by Cinrad because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 6 2013 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

There are several references to the proper way to obtain and treat slaves, about how slaves should obey their masters. they are in both the old and new testaments.

See a summary here

Here's the new testament ones:

Ephesians 6:5 NLT Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.


So they should have not obeyed and gotten themselves chastised by someone who could legally kill them if the wanted? The Jews were in the Roman Empire at this stage. This letter was to all Christians living in the Roman Empire in Ephesus (and was good advice to all Christians who happened to be slaves).


Originally posted by Aloysius the GaulEph 6:9) And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favouritism with him. (See also Ephesians 6:7-8)

Coll 4:1 Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.


These last 2 just prove my point! The Bible teaches that slavery is not a natural condition. Aristotle did.

So where is the slapdown?
edit on 6/9/13 by Cinrad because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 6 2013 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by Darth_Prime
Since a topic regarding Homosexuality has once again gone the way of Religion,


It was about a prime minister alluding to Aristotle on slavery and saying it was the Bible.



posted on Sep, 6 2013 @ 02:15 AM
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Originally posted by Cinrad

It was about a prime minister alluding to Aristotle on slavery and saying it was the Bible.


not entirely.. that is only part of what he said here is the rest i believe:


"Because St Paul said in the New Testament, 'slaves be obedient to your masters'. And, therefore, we should have all fought for the Confederacy in the US war. I mean, for goodness sake, the human condition and social conditions change."
au.news.yahoo.com...
edit on 6-9-2013 by choos because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 6 2013 @ 06:44 AM
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reply to post by choos
 


Once again, did you expect him to recommend a slave rebellion? That slaves disobey their masters? He was addressing Christian slaves which would be at the meeting where this letter would be read out, therefore they had at least the freedom to attend their meetings together even if it was underground. We are not talking about slavery as portrayed in the series Roots (the historical accuracy of that book/mini series has been seriously questioned). We are talking about slavery as there was in the Roman Empire where many slaves even had their own slaves. Read your history. St Paul was not condoning slavery, he was not condoning abuse of other people, quite the opposite, he was advising them on how to get in their master's (bosses) good books i.e. to work hard and please them. There were lazy slaves back then too, that is why he told them not to like that.

St Paul also said
Gal 3:28 Faith in Christ Jesus is what makes each of you equal with each other, whether you are a Jew or a Greek, a slave or a free person, a man or a woman.

Inequality is a fact of our fallen world, it shouldn't be like that but it is. It is not like that in the body of Christ.



posted on Sep, 6 2013 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by Cinrad
 


Would have done a lot if GOD had said it!!!!! All we got is words from the mouths of child molesters and murderers telling us what some deity whispered in his ear. Some stone tablets which evaporated faster than joseph smiths magical plates and of which almost half the rules were simply based on stroking its ego....

Why do you treat your god like some impotent moron? All the power in the world to forcefully drowned whole civilizations and send angels to slaughter infants, but no time to prevent slaughter or demonstrate compassion to the world. "the world is fallen" what a *%&^ing joke, because of idiots that believe in this $&%* we have a massive mess In cultures all around the world... and its always another imaginary character, lucifer's, fault. Religion has done nothing but leave scars on this world and we spend everyday trading peoples lives for the tolerance of such stupidity.

The myth of your god is ridiculous and unbelievable. As a character, its the worst ever created by human imagination.

Jesus = stockholm syndrome
edit on 6-9-2013 by Wertdagf because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 6 2013 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by Cinrad
 


no he is trying to say that times change.. in the bible slavery seems normal.. in todays world slavery is unacceptable..

he is just trying to point out that some views/stances of the bible are outdated.. that is all.. slavery was just a point to show that.



posted on Sep, 13 2013 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by Cinrad
 



Cinrad
reply to post by LexiconV
 



Anyway, why would anyone care what Jesus thinks if Jesus is not their lord and saviour?


Exactly, so the rules of Christianity should not be forced on the country and since marriage is tied to the government - then gay marriage should be legal or that is discrimination.



posted on Sep, 16 2013 @ 05:53 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


The rules of marriage should be enforced. The country's law says that marriage is between a man and a woman. That is the rule.



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 05:03 PM
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Cinrad
Rudd says he is a Christian. Shows how much of a slime ball this guy really is. Just a few hours before he was addressing a webcast sponsored by Australian Christian Lobby asking Christians for their vote then he totally disregards the words of his saviour and lord with an allusion to Aristotle. That's right, not the Bible but Aristotle believed that slavery is a natural condition. The Bible is against slavery.

www.thea... ustralian.com.au/national-affairs/election-2013/scripture-is-simply-all-greek-to-rudd/story-fn9qr68y-1226710083911


Really? Bible is against Slavery? Have you not read Leviticus?

Wait, you're going to say that the OT doesn't count in this case?

While we're questioning the ole pick the stuff the believe, why is it shell fish is listed at least 7 times as to be not eaten/avoided @ all costs, but the religious right don't bother attacking the local Red Lobster?

Why is also that Jesus looks like he's a Nazi love child when the Bible speaks of wooly hair and copper skin?

Derek



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 05:39 PM
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Cinrad
reply to post by arpgme
 


The rules of marriage should be enforced. The country's law says that marriage is between a man and a woman. That is the rule.


not in about 13 or 14 countries around het world it doesn't - and since the US constitution states that any power not actually granted to the Feds is reserved for the States, and since the power to regulate marriage is not (AFAIK) specifically given to the Fed's, each state gets to make up it's own laws in this respect too - which means how many States now allow same-sex marriage??



posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 05:41 PM
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Cinrad
reply to post by choos
 


Inequality is a fact of our fallen world, it shouldn't be like that but it is. It is not like that in the body of Christ.


of course - silly us.....falldidit



posted on Sep, 23 2013 @ 07:48 PM
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Apparently neither Rudd, nor the pastor has actually read the Bible, but that is pretty common in post christian society. The Bible condemns slavery, but since it was widespread in the culture at that time, it gave rules for righteious behavior for both slaves and masters.

For example Exodus 21
16 “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.

This is the type of slavery, that was practiced in the pre-civil war south for example, that is condemned.
The verses that refer to slaves in the old testament should actually be translated as indentured servant. Indeed if such a servant fled his master, he was provided sanctuary in Israel. Moreover an Israelite had to be freed after 7 years.

Since slavery was a big part of pagan Roman society, the new Testament gave sensible rules for slaves to try to win over the hearts of their masters. However there are versus in Galatians that clearly show that the master and slave were of equal value in the church, ie,
Galatians 3:28
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

So Rudd's so called clever retort shows he just another christian atheist, as is probably the pastor he is debating.
edit on 23-9-2013 by SevenThunders because: spelling



posted on Sep, 23 2013 @ 09:26 PM
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SevenThunders

So Rudd's so called clever retort shows he just another christian atheist, as is probably the pastor he is debating.


rudd wasnt saying that slavery was condoned in the bible.. he was using it as an example that times have changed.. during the time of the bible slavery was normal to society.. in todays world slavery is not normal.. see how times have changed?


the full quote:


Well, mate, if I was going to have that view, the Bible also says that slavery is a natural condition, Because St Paul said in the New Testament, 'slaves be obedient to your masters'. And, therefore, we should have all fought for the Confederacy in the US war. I mean, for goodness sake, the human condition and social conditions change.
au.news.yahoo.com...



posted on Sep, 23 2013 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by choos
 


I can't really comment further with regards to Rudd, his character or agenda, since I'm really not that familiar with Australian politics. I have heard that he is cracking down on immigration. Perhaps that was getting a little out of control. I do disagree with his change of mind on homosexuality. Such behavior should not be normalized and should be discouraged if at all possible

The Bible is definitely unambiguous with regards to that teaching.



posted on Sep, 24 2013 @ 02:20 AM
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reply to post by Cinrad
 


My country's rules once stated that it was perfectly permissible to chain a black person to a post and beat them until the skin fell off their backs. My country's laws also prohibited marriage between a white person and black person. That it was perfectly legal to shoot Indians and wipe them out completely.

Guess what. Those "rules" eventually ended up in the dustbin where they belong. Why? because they were outdated, unjust, immoral, and counterproductive to the civility and well being of the society.

When a law is unjust, stupid, outdated, or harmful, it should be trashed, not enforced. Otherwise, we would have a very dismal world indeed, were we to continue following archaic laws from ancient times.

You claim the Bible does not condone slavery. That all these verses about slavery were put in because slavery was a common and accepted practice at the time. You know what else was a common and accepted practice in the Roman empire?

Homosexuality.

So what you are saying is that your God accepts slavery as somehow unavoidable, and thus, needing regulation, but same sex , consensual love is somehow wrong and needs to be condemned. Basically, that love between to people with the same body parts, a state in which a person is born and has no control over, but does not cause harm to others, is an abomination, and persons with this orientation are vile and disgusting and need to either be put to death or persecuted. But slavery, which is not a natural state of being, that brings misery, pain, suffering, and dischord to people against their will, is not as bad, and so long as you follow a few guidelines, no big deal, you get a pass to the pearly gates if you were nice to your slaves.

Yeah, your god totally has his priorities straight......not.




posted on Sep, 24 2013 @ 02:33 AM
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reply to post by Wertdagf
 


Nice. Also, they like to beat the crap out of little kids! having been a little kid that got the crap kicked out of him almost every day by Nuns! Evil Nuns dressed in black (just like the Nazi's on "combat"!)

As for same sex marriage, it's a contract. the "marrige" part is just a ceremony predicting alimony! If it works out, cool, if it doesn't, who cares? But what about the kids? No one cares about that either.





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