Religion is violence.

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

For example, wars have been started due to religion.
Wars have been started due to geographical locations (nationalism)
Wars have been started because one tradition does not adhere to another

Wars have been started over beards and soccer games as well (They really have).

Like I said, people are going to find a reason to fight regardless.

Originally posted by ProfessorChaos

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

For example, wars have been started due to religion.
Wars have been started due to geographical locations (nationalism)
Wars have been started because one tradition does not adhere to another

Wars have been started over beards and soccer games as well (They really have).

Like I said, people are going to find a reason to fight regardless.

Physical limitations set physical standards. Regardless, you are right, history has shown that humans will fight . Just as they will fight, they will understand. In order for me to go on, I have to have hope in humanity, and that is one mantra that I try to live by. I may sound naive, but personally, it's the only way,

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by ProfessorChaos

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

For example, wars have been started due to religion.
Wars have been started due to geographical locations (nationalism)
Wars have been started because one tradition does not adhere to another

Wars have been started over beards and soccer games as well (They really have).

Like I said, people are going to find a reason to fight regardless.

Physical limitations set physical standards. Regardless, you are right, history has shown that humans will fight . Just as they will fight, they will understand. In order for me to go on, I have to have hope in humanity, and that is one mantra that I try to live by. I may sound naive, but personally, it's the only way,

Thats cool, I respect that.

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by ProfessorChaos

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

For example, wars have been started due to religion.
Wars have been started due to geographical locations (nationalism)
Wars have been started because one tradition does not adhere to another

Wars have been started over beards and soccer games as well (They really have).

Like I said, people are going to find a reason to fight regardless.

Physical limitations set physical standards. Regardless, you are right, history has shown that humans will fight . Just as they will fight, they will understand. In order for me to go on, I have to have hope in humanity, and that is one mantra that I try to live by. I may sound naive, but personally, it's the only way,

Perfectly respectable attitude, I just hold a differing one.

Ask a crowd of blind men (and women) which way is North...they will all point in different directions. There is one North relative to the earth and sun. There is one great truth, by which all factual knowledge circumscribes to. There is one great cause. There is one great I AM, regardless of the title or form of deity. All people living on the earth are vibrational beings, beyond color and associations. I am blonde, Christian, a mother, an artist, a wife, a scholar, an American, a chocolate lover. Foremost I am "me", a royal daughter of deity. Every person on this planet shares this highest honor.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos


What about when you turn back into Butters?

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
reply to post by ProfessorChaos

 

What about when you turn back into Butters?

When that happens, all bets are off!

Originally posted by ProfessorChaos

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
reply to post by ProfessorChaos

 

What about when you turn back into Butters?

When that happens, all bets are off!

Lol sorry, I am trying to become funnier. I just saw the ProfessorChaos name and had to do a South Park reference.
Totally Mr. Hanky'd that

Ok I'll stop lol XD

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by ProfessorChaos

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
reply to post by ProfessorChaos

 

What about when you turn back into Butters?

When that happens, all bets are off!

Lol sorry, I am trying to become funnier. I just saw the ProfessorChaos name and had to do a South Park reference.
Totally Mr. Hanky'd that

Ok I'll stop lol XD

It's all good. I'm all about levity, if you can't laugh, life will suck.

reply to post by n00bUK

So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind - Jiddu Krishnamurti

Outstanding. Nowadays people are "cliquish". Lots of pressure to conform. Wish it wash't so.

“Violence is not merely killing another. It is violence when we use a sharp word, when we make a gesture to brush away a person, when we obey because there is fear. So violence isn't merely organized butchery in the name of God, in the name of society or country. Violence is much more subtle, much deeper, and we are inquiring into the very depths of violence" - Jiddu Krishnamurti

Originally posted by n00bUK
When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind - Jiddu Krishnamurti (From Freedom Of The Known)

.Another brilliant book I'v just finished by Jiddu Krishnamurti. What an amazing man.

If you haven;t read any of his books then I'd advice reading The Awakening Of intelligence.

edit on 2-9-2013 by n00bUK because: (no reason given)

That creates distance, not violence. There are paths out there that encourage other religions to flourish in peace.

Identifying with a religion, nationality, or ethnicity does not create violence; it flavors the world. Stupidity, fear, and hate create violence.

So a more accurate way to say it is "most religions promote violence but many others promote peace". It's just unfortunate that the most violent ones are in control right now. At least for now.

reply to post by n00bUK

by Jiddu Krishnamurti. What an amazing man.

Brilliant man.

Krishnamurti on love

You say you love your wife. In that love is involved sexual pleasure, the pleasure of having someone in the house to look after your children, to cook. You depend on her; she has given you her body, her emotions, her encouragement, a certain feeling of security and well-being. Then she turns away from you; she gets bored or goes off with someone else, and your whole emotional balance is destroyed, and this disturbance, which you don't like, is called jealousy. There is pain in it, anxiety, hate and violence. So what you are really saying is, `As long as you belong to me I love you but the moment you don't I begin to hate you. As long as I can rely on you to satisfy my demands, sexual and otherwise, I love you, but the moment you cease to supply what I want I don't like you.'

reply to post by n00bUK


JK was a great thinker and there is a lot of wisdom in his ideas about violence but there are other things that need to be addressed.
What about whats The Truth?
If i know a truth and someone else comes and speaks/believes a false idea and acts upon it should i also let go the truth i know and the actions i was doing based on that and just follow him because i want to be non-violent?

The Idea that religion is violent comes from people who don't have one including JK.
The funny thing is that lack of religion is also equally violent as that is seperating you from people who have a religion.
So if you want to be an example of the philosophy you posted then go get a religion and reduce the violence a bit.

Originally posted by logical7
The Idea that religion is violent comes from people who don't have one ...

The idea that religions aren't violent comes from people who refuse to see that many are.
Some religions are inherently violent. Like Islam.
Some religions are inherently peaceful. Like Wicca.
Some 'religions' are a way of life .... like Buddhism ... which is absolutely peaceful.
Some religions are a mish-mash of violence and peace ... like Christianity.


ON TOPIC .... to the OP .... I disagree with your blanket statement that religion is violence. Religion separates people from others and puts distance between them. SOME religions are also violent. SOME religions are not. I wouldn't use a broad brush to paint all religions as violent just because some of the major religions of the world are.

reply to post by n00bUK
Brother, i love your argument but first, i want to remind you on what Albert Einstein said on Religion, he said Religion is science and science is Religion. He also said that Religion without science and science without Religion is somehow incomplete, the two goes together for constructive purposes. Then if you say that Religion is violence, then it does not conform with what Einstein is talking about because violence is synonymous with destruction. To me, Religion brings orderliness and peace, so also is science, someone can use Religion to build a good Society with good things, so also is science that brings cars, electricity, Computers and others. We should not Forget that every good Thing too, can be manipulated to cause evil, this is why sometimes, the thinkers would say that good is in evil and evil sometimes is in good- Religion, science, education and Technology can be manipulated to cause disasters, if this is your Argument, you are correct but remember that in history, those who causes evil with good things are always very few and the effects of their evil doing is Minute, and does not last Long. Invariably i am saying that no one can stop the work of God and no matter how great a violence is, in the world, People will always remain, destroyed things or states will always be rebuilt. The world is People go and People come whether they are purified race or otherwise

reply to post by FlyersFan


Violence is an inherent human quality.

Any religion that does not address it is not a practical way of life.

Violence is also sometimes necessary when the unjust, oppressors only understand that language and when innocents are being killed otherwise.

The religion should direct and advice regarding these exceptions too.

I don't know what Wicca believe or do, i do know that its not a revealed religion.
I do know buddhists are not that non violent. Just look at japan and the perverted things they do.

On Topic.
According to JK, perception of any difference is Violence and i don't agree. If i want to differentiate myself from a majority group that is indulging in wrongs then i would happily do it.

And like Qur'an teaches me, i am not afraid of the blame of the blamers

i know there is a God. If that separates me from the atheists,agnostics etc then i would be happy to be seperate. Want to call me violent? Be my guest

Originally posted by logical7
Violence is also sometimes necessary when the unjust, oppressors only understand that language and when innocents are being killed otherwise.

Islam itself is violent ... not to so called 'oppressors' ... but to everyone. It's violent towards other muslims. It's violent towards non-muslims. Islam is convoluted mess of politics and religion. It's goal is to push it's silly sharia religious beliefs on the entire world at the point of a sword. It's violent in it's constricting. Instead of freeing the soul and mind, it' weighs them down with the mundane and worldly. That does violence to the very soul.

Judaism is arrogant and separates humanity. It is violent in that aspect and it's past that it clings to is very violent.

Christianity is a mix. Fortunately it has evolved under secular law and it has been forced to grow up. Otherwise it would be outwardly violent.

Buddhism, on the other hand, is inherently peaceful. It's live and let live. It's self sacrificing for others so that they can raise themselves up. It frees the soul. It frees the mind.

Wicca is inherently peaceful. Do ye no harm. Ever.

Your statement -

Originally posted by logical7
go get a religion and reduce the violence a bit.

is dead wrong. Every atheist I know is peaceful.
I can't say that about all the 'god believing' Muslims and Christians I know.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Your statement -

Originally posted by logical7 go get a religion and reduce the violence a bit.

is dead wrong. Every atheist I know is peaceful. I can't say that about all the 'god believing' Muslims and Christians I know.

well why do you take my statement out of context?
The discussion here is not only on physical violence but the root of violence according to JK and thats the percieved seperation and it also implies on atheists if they consider themselves seperate from theists in matter of beliefs.
Its a philosophical discussion FF. An atheist maybe outwardly docile but if he/she wants religions to end etc then in thoughts its still violence and it will get expressed in words, mockery etc.

So answer me this, you do know that there is a God, then would you choose to harmonise with a group of atheists to keep things calm and uniform and agree with them and crush any root that may lead to violent confrontations, debates etc or stick to the Truth you know and respect their ideas but disagree with them even if they make fun of you etc??

Originally posted by logical7
it also implies on atheists if they consider themselves seperate from theists in matter of beliefs.

Nearly all atheists have a live and let live policy. That's not violence. That's different beliefs but it's not them separating themselves violently from others. Unlike people of religion who separate themselves from others with beliefs AND with attitude .. and in some cases outright physical violence.

An atheist maybe outwardly docile but if he/she wants religions to end etc then in thoughts its still violence and it will get expressed in words, mockery etc.

Most atheists don't care what others believe so they don't 'wish for religions to end'. Some do. But those I know don't care. And wishing for religions to end is NOT the same as people who actively push their religion on others. Some atheists do try to push atheism. But most simply don't care. The same can't be said of fundamentalist Christians and sharia-luv'n Muslims.

you do know that there is a God, then would you choose to harmonise with a group of atheists to keep things calm and uniform

If I chose to be friends with atheists it's because they are respectful of my life choices and they don't push their views on me. It isn't to 'keep things calm and uniform'. (that's a strange thing to say) Like I said, the atheists I know don't care what a person believes or disbelieves. they just want those people to keep it to themselves. As do I. Religion is a private matter. Unfortunately, many people who believe in God (christian, muslim) are extremely pushy and arrogant ... and think their religion should be practiced by everyone. Fundamentalist Christians and sharia-luv'n muslims come to mind.

Oh .. and no atheist has made fun of me that I know of. If they have .. I'd rather deal with someone who makes fun of my beliefs than someone who is trying to push their own silly beliefs at the point of a sword ... or by flying airplanes into buildings ... or by denying me a job because I don't buy their silly religions restrictions on women or other faiths, etc

It's too bad that the fundamentalist christians and sharia-muslims can't learn a thing or two from the 'live and let live' attitude that MOST atheists have. The world would be a better place if they could learn that.