America - are you ready for your next Civil War?

Originally posted by neformore
I'm asking this seriously, with a healthy dose of respect for you guys across the pond, and it is based on what I read on ATS on a daily basis

America - are you ready for your next Civil War ?

Nef,

Honestly no and here is why.

I think Civil Wars are a sign of stupidity and ignorance.

There are a few people, meaning leaders along with their over-lords that will always stir up trouble because they know how ignorant people will respond.

The major issue is that the majority of the people think they need leaders, so this will never end.

A Civil War is just a distraction to get the stupid people to fight each other, then to overthrow a government that they will replace, with another group of puppets for their masters.

War is definitely not the answer anymore, because in war there are only degrees of loss and no winners.

What we need is completely different educational system from birth to empower each person here on earth, so that they understand that they are responsible for there own world, thus creating a large world of responsible people that do not need leaders.

Until this happens we will always have the current MO.

Regards,

RT

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

This is accurate,it would start with Martial law and confiscation.
This is from Bob OwenPerhaps 50-100 million firearms currently owned by law-abiding citizens will become contraband with the stroke of a pen. Citizens will either register their firearms, or turn them in to agents of the federal government, or risk becoming criminals themselves. Faced with this choice, millions will indeed register their arms. Perhaps as many will claim they’ve sold their arms, or had them stolen. Suppose that as many as 200-250 million weapons of other types will go unregistered.

Tens of millions of Americans will refuse to comply with an order that is clearly a violation of the explicit intent of the Second Amendment. Among the most ardent opposing these measures will be military veterans, active duty servicemen, and local law enforcement officers. Many of these individuals will refuse to carry out what they view as Constitutionally illegal orders. Perhaps 40-50 million citizens will view such a law as treason. Perhaps ten percent of those, 4-5 million, would support a rebellion in some way, and maybe 40,000-100,000 Americans will form small independently-functioning active resistance cells, or become lone-wolves.

They will be leaderless, stateless, difficult to track, and considering the number of military veterans that would likely be among their number, extremely skilled at sabotage, assassination, and ambush.

After a number of carefully-planned, highly-publicized, and successful raids by the government, one or more will invariably end “badly.” Whether innocents are gunned down, a city block is burned to ash, or especially fierce resistance leads to a disastrously failed raid doesn’t particularly matter. What matters is that when illusion of the government’s invincibility and infallibility is broken, the hunters will become the hunted.

Unnamed citizens and federal agents will be the first to die, and they will die by the dozens and maybe hundreds, but famous politicians will soon join them in a spate of revenge killings, many of which will go unsolved.

Ironically, while the gun grab was intended to keep citizens from preserving their liberties with medium-powered weapons, it completely ignored the longer-ranged rifles perfect for shooting at ranges far beyond what a security detail can protect, and suppressed .22LR weapons proven deadly in urban sniping in Europe and Asia.

While the Secret Service will be able to protect the President in the White House, he will not dare leave his gilded cage except in carefully controlled circumstances. Even then he will be forced to move like a criminal. He will never be seen outdoors in public again. Not in this country.

The 535 members of the House and Senate in both parties that allowed such a law to pass would largely be on their own; the Secret Service is too small to protect all of them and their families, the Capitol Police too unskilled, and competent private security not particularly interested in working against their own best interests at any price. The elites will be steadily whittled down, and if they can not be reached directly, the targets will become their staffers, spouses, children, and grandchildren. Grandstanding media figures loyal to the regime would die in droves, executed as enemies of the Republic.

You can expect congressional staffs to disintegrate with just a few shootings, and expect elected officials themselves to resign well before a quarter of their number are eliminated, leaving us with a boxed-in executive, his cabinet loyalists trapped in the same win, die, or flee the country circumstance, military regime loyalists, and whatever State Governors who desire to risk their necks as well.

Here, the President will doubtlessly order the activation of National Guard units and the regular military to impose martial law, setting the largest and most powerful military in the world against its own people. Unfortunately, the tighter the President clinches his tyrannical fist, the more rebels he makes.

Military commands and federal agencies will be whittled down as servicemen and agents will desert or defect. Some may leave as individuals, others may join the Rebellion in squad and larger-sized units with all their weapons, tactics, skills, and insider intelligence. The regime will be unable to trust its own people, and because they cannot trust them, they will lose more in a vicious cycle of collapse.

Some of these defectors will be true “operators,” with the skills and background to turn ragtag militia cells into the kind of forces that decimate loyalist troops, allowing them no rest and no respite, striking them when they are away from their most potent weapons. Military vehicles are formidable, but they are thirsty beasts, in terms of fuel, ammo, time, and maintenance. Tanks and bombers are formidable only when they have gas, guns, and can be maintained. In a war without a front, logistics are incredibly easy to destroy, and mechanics and supply clerks are not particularly adept at defending themselves.

Eventually, the government will turn upon itself. The President will be captured or perhaps killed by his own protectors. A dictatorship will form in the vacuum.

If we’re lucky, the United States of America, or whatever amalgam results, will again try to rebuild. If we’re very lucky, the victors will reinstate the Constitution as the law of the land. Just as likely though, we’ll face fractious civil wars fought over issues we’ve not begun to fathom, and a much diminished state or states will result, perhaps guided by foreign interests.

It will not be pretty. There will be no “winners,” and perhaps hundreds of thousands to millions of dead.

Yet, this is the future we face if the power-mad among us are not soundly defeated at the ballot box before they affect more “change” than we, the People, are willing to surrender to would-be tyrants.

reply to post by cavtrooper7


Just like I said, all the stupid people will kill each other off, while the people that originally created the tension will be far far away, or protected from the chaos.

TPTB will laugh at the idiots killing each other off, all the while profiting from the war and chaos.

Originally posted by Realtruth
reply to post by cavtrooper7

 

Just like I said, all the stupid people will kill each other off, while the people that originally created the tension will be far far away, or protected from the chaos.

TPTB will laugh at the idiots killing each other off, all the while profiting from the war and chaos.

Best assessment, I´ve read all day. Since I know a couple of extremely rich persons, I know what you say is true. They truly utterly despise the common man on the street.

To them, the average american is nothing more than a useful animal in their industrial grinding wheel and so for minimum wage, which to them is another proof of how utterly dumbed down the sheeple are. This is a sad state of affairs, but it is the current reality.

So long as Americans have their modern day version of "Bread and Circuses", Americans will be too lethargic to do anything.

There is a greater divide in the USA over almost every single issue than there ever has been at any time in the past.

But there is also a huge wealth disparity in the US right now too, much higher than it was in France or Russia at the times of their popular peoples' revolutions.

reply to post by cavtrooper7



That was a very likely scenario but what you described was classic urban warfare.

Sorry, but the high tech sound wepons, bio/chem/drugspray, and control of the food supply chain and power grid and communications/jamming will drastically change any uprising by Americans.

The puppet master, power brokers are far from stupid and contingency plans are in place to deal with even well armed malcontents.

With LEOs now a military force and their connections with stooges and stool pigeons intel will be a huge problem. Law enforcement doesn't think very highly of civilians and refer to them as "pukes" so don't expect them to be part of any revolt. They know full well who writes their pay checks.

Add into the mix a populace that for all practical purposes are illiterate and can't follow directions more complicated than putting popcorn in the microwave...

To little, to late I'm afraid. My solution is to look for the obvious precursor signs and bail fast and early to a more stable country.

Right now we are living under Fascism disguised as Democracy. We really have no influence in our future other than to mindlessly consume. Please pass the sweet and sour chicken....

K. Vonnegut predicted this mess many years ago....

reply to post by neformore


I most certainly don't want it, but unfortunately it is desperately needed. The problem is in that coming civil war will be more than two sides and none will be worth fighting for. All will want a return to the good ole days.

reply to post by neformore


I doubt there will be another civil war/revolt.

Most of it is internet talk, and it is a very small percentage of people. The thing is, people here in America are spoiled and ignorant...they complain about how bad the economy is and how poor they and they have no clue they are living a life of luxury compared to most of the world. They complain about their "freedoms" being taken from them, when they are more free than most of the world.

You may see some small groups trying to make trouble, but they are dealt with quickly. Take for example the militia group in Michigan, people see them as crazy and applaud when they were arrested. What you see on ATS is what most of America sees as crazy people...it's not a very good representation of what the general public believes.

There are a few reasons I wouldn't want to see a Civil War and why I think the people who talk about it don't really know what they are talking about.

1. I like order, wars are chaos.
2. There is no one issue dividing the country, if a "Civil War" broke out, there would be hundreds of sides.
3. People who talk about "revolution" can never state who the enemy is. Saying "the government" isn't a very good answer. The military is part of the government, are these flag waving patriots going to start killing people serving in the military? Are they going to kill the average Joe working at the DMV because they are the "government"?
4. Hunting rifles don't do much to a tank or a stealth bomber.

No intelligent and logical person in the United States thinks there is going to be a Civil War, just the crazies who are delusional about the state of reality.

reply to post by AlienScience


Nice to see some bright stars shine the light of logic and not the usual redneck noise, when the term 'revolution' comes up here on ATS. A star to you, sir.

Heck, most here couldn´t convince their own neighbour to raise arms, much less the greater crowd.

To most three letter agencies, the mere notion of the tiniest uprising would be a wet dream coming true. Why? Because then they could defend their need for a massive increase in funds from the federal budget cake to their shady activities, that today amounts in the hundred of billions.

Wanted to say thanks for all of the thoughtful posts so far Am enjoying reading them!

I've said it numerous times before but just to reiterate; I'm not in favor of overthrowing the existing order in the United States. I would like to see a lot of things changed, but Americans have the tools to do this if they would only use them, and they are starting to.

Having said that, I think a "civil war" in the United States is possible. The precursor to it would be an attempted military coup. If it were possible to divide the military into mutineers and loyalists, then I think a civil war could develop if enough citizens came in on the side of the mutineers.

The initial coup attempt would have to be very ruthless. Many top echelon politicians would have to be executed immediately, to eliminate loyalist leaders that are known nationwide. After that anything is possible.

I hope it never happens. God Bless America.

reply to post by neformore


I agree with pretty much all you stated. The US of A does need a revolution. Our government is corrupt and completely out of touch with ordinary patriotic citizens, often labeling them as "terrorists". Don't you dare question ANY authority figure and, please, if you are questioned by an authority figure......don't resist (so sad to say this) because you might just end up in jail. As I understand it, in the US can now arrest any person without just cause and that person can be held indefinitely. What has happened to the Bill of Rights and the Constitution? I am an American citizen who now lives in Mexico. A few years ago my husband and I moved to MX because we could no longer afford to live in the States due to losing our jobs of 30 and 38 years respectively. Unfortunately, most jobs of any worth has been outsourced to foreign countries and the only jobs available are part-time or minimum wage. Try supporting your family at a job like this when you were gainfully employed with health insurance, retirements accounts, etc. Now, none of that. If this seems like a rant I am sorry. Truthfully part of it is, however, I just wanted to convey my agreement with the OP.

I doubt America will fall from a civil war, as it were.

More likely, Americans will allow the UN soldiers to come help provide 'security' when Iranian MOIS al-quds force operatives go hot in the American homeland and start blowing up large numbers of civilians.

Why UN troops and not American? Our troops will be busy in Syria with Syrian regulars whilst also engaged in limited scale action against Russia around the world in numerous hot spots, leaving UN (read Chinese) troops to come step in and protect the United States. And sadly, many of our people will not realize they are under martial law until it is far too late.

(Just my theorycrafting. Probably wrong, but I like to consider all options.)

I'm from the UK but i follow US politics quite closely, so i hope you won't mind if i throw in an outsiders opinion.

There's a general distrust of politicians in that they don't represent what's best for the people - only what's best for themselves. I see this as more so in the US. You guys have the most ridiculous lies told to you and you're expected to believe and ask no questions. If you object or ask the wrong questions then you either end up in prison or meet an untimely demise. At least in the UK, we just end up in prison.

But you guys are lucky in many ways. Firstly, you have your constitution to protect you. We here, have nothing of the sort. Secondly, the government lies over there are too obvious. There will soon come a major awakening; A realisation that you're being lied to, robbed and deceived. When that happens, i think you'll see a vast improvement and a complete change.

I really believe that all you need to do is find a candidate you can trust, elect him/her, and you'll see a president that serves the people, not the big companies that paid to put them in power.

What I see is the people who were privileged generation after generation are no longer privileged. They don't have the education that their predecessors had, they don't have the intelligence that their predecessors had, they don't have the commitment that their predecessors had. They spent their entire lives shouting "I WANT" and it being given to them.

Their parents and grandparents are dying, from old age. They are dwindling in population and those left behind, the lethargic generation is expected to take the reigns and they aren't capable.

Sure, there are some, many even, who have worked through their lives, have learned life's lessons and are mature, responsible adults. Of course those people aren't involved in politics or government. We have a bunch of imbeciles on both sides fighting over matters that just don't matter. This is creating an ever growing void in our society.

Those politicians on the Democrat side try to appease the masses based on what they think the masses want. They are catering to the inner city, urban minority groups that they FEEL elected the sitting president. They are bring forth ideas of racism and discrimination to keep people riled up and on their side.

Those politicians on the Republican side try to appease the masses based on what they think the masses want. They are catering to the rural, racist, uneducated redneck groups that they FEEL oppose the sitting president. They are bringing forth ideas of the good old days, guns, bibles and taxes to keep people riled up and on their side.

The redneck persona is the majority in the US and is growing. Hatred is being instilled. Reproduction is a main focus. They want more and more and more of the uneducated, ignorant masses to keep having more children because it's easy to control people like that. On the flip side of the coin, the urban poor is being encouraged to have more and more and more children, given "assistance" and making life a little easier because it's easy to control people like that.

People in the middle, those who work, those who respect others opinions, those who are a credit to society, they are being squashed. Those people aren't easy to control, they think for themselves, they make decisions based on information from multiple sources, not just fox news, not just cnn. That's the present enemy. Thinking, intelligent people are not wanted here, only extremists. Anybody who is a Proud Mercan or is Ghetto Yo is good to go, they are protected, they have the support of their side. Everyone else is screwed.

Bring it on. Have the war and get it over with so the rest of us can get back to living our lives without the radical sides fighting over who controls their sheep the best.

That was written by Bob Owens. I just agree with the over all premis. Exotics and gases still require human delivery.All that must be done is sniping.

A civil war in the United States is not going to happen anytime within our lifetimes. The United States' citizens are so dumbed down with tv, add inducing systems such as mass caffeine consumption, games, music, etc etc meant to inflict upon our ability to think deeply and boldy that it is not possible for any organized warfare whatsoever within the American populace. The many military branches are ruled by the central government. As long as their remains one extremely powerful central government that controls the entire US military you will have no conflict within our nation amongst ourselves militarily. I live in an apartment. Do you know how many of us even know are next door neighbors names? I can probably count them on my hands. Humans are a divided species. We do not rely on each other for anything at all. We wake up, go to "work" and be a wage slave. This process goes on until you die. My point being that to assume that we will all somehow unite, break away from the government that controls the only military we have and fight with ourselves, when it is evidenced that most of us don't even like or talk to our next door neighbors, is not smart.

Hello, ATS! Long time lurker, first time poster.

Don't forget that the internet is overrun with sock puppets and operatives by the tens of thousands actively flooding forums and social media to give the appearance that popular opinion is what those who employ them want it to appear as. Certainly a percentage of people are influenced by it but by and large you cannot gauge public opinion by what you read online. Talk to your friends, people on the street, people at work, to get a better understanding of how people really feel.