To the Atheist: A reason Christians get heated when defending their belief.

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb
reply to post by Akragon

 

Again just theories.

Well i'll at least give you that...

You consider these things theory... Not fact... So at least you're on the right page

Do yourself a favor my friend... Stick to the gospels

The rest doesn't matter in the least

reply to post by truejew


gracethrufaith.com...

gracethrufaith.com...

Originally posted by BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

Im not sure that relating personal experience has anything to do with evangelism. Eternal life is gained through faith in christ. Its a gift, therefore you dont have to ask for salvation. You cant invite christ into your heart, it simply doesnt work that way. You have to aproach the cross with faith alone.

Im was saved around the age of twelve. I really dont have much of a salvation experience to share. The gospel was taught to me, I acknowledged it to be true, and as a result, I was saved. I didnt feel like singing and dancing, no warm gooey feeling in side. Thats not to say that anyone elses experience is somehow illegitament, it just doesnt prove anything.

After a few years, I decided to part ways with God. I was still saved, just apathetical. That is when God punished me with the consequences of my own decisions. It wasnt until I went back to His Word that I began to learn and grow. Christianity is about executing God's personal plan for your life. Emotional experiences will come and go, but they do not help nor hinder God's plan.

So, its pretty usless to try and evangelize by attaching your personal experience to the gospel message. When I was saved, there wasnt a shred of evidence presented to me to prove the gospel true. I just accepted it. It wasnt until I started looking for the answers that i realized that the bible presents a logical truth that is untouchable.

The point is, any one from a fool to a genius can be saved by believing that Jesus willingly died on the cross for our sins. Believe it and you are saved. The proof comes with growth in the Word.

You can present all the proof you can find to these "intelectuals". But no matter how hard you try, you cant make them believe the truth.

Everyone saved in the book of Acts had a salvational experience. It takes more than a statement of belief to be saved. True belief is to follow Jesus in His death, burial, and resurrection by way of repentance, baptism in Jesus name, receiving the Holy Spirit, and continuing to walk in the Spirit.

reply to post by Akragon


I consider the timings theories the rapture itself I am pretty sure will happen very soon, however, I find it hard to believe that 1948 wasn't the start of the clock Biblically speaking.
gracethrufaith.com...

reply to post by truejew


Do you believe in saved by grace, kept by works or saved by grace alone?

I got a comment.....

What I really don't understand about some atheists is.....

1) Why they only have a beef with Christians and seemingly no other religions?
2) Why they often know as much or more about the bible than Christians
3) Why they get so passionate about trying to disprove something...like if it's really not there then why such zealousness about proving something doesn't exist?

Like it makes no sense. It's like a Wine Connoisseur who knows everything about wine, but just has for some reason never taken a drink. Like if you're that close to it, frig just go drink so you know what it tastes like too. Don't just sit there talking about it. Go experience it so at least you know what it's like. Then some say they have, but I kinda doubt that. Maybe in some legalistic fashion, but obviously not from any spiritual standpoint.

I don't know, I'm just saying. Frig, they know so much that they might as well just join the club. They know more than many christians, and more than most non believers by far. It's like they secretly read the bible and study it all so they know all kinds of stuff about it. oohh yaaa but they use to be christians...however, the heck that works. I don't think it works that way. What's that like....hmmm..... a born again virgin?

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb
reply to post by truejew

 

gracethrufaith.com...

gracethrufaith.com...

The sites you posted are also wrong about the 70 weeks... The 70 weeks are already fulfilled. There is no other messias coming.

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb
reply to post by truejew

 

Do you believe in saved by grace, kept by works or saved by grace alone?

I believe in salvation by grace through true faith, not salvation by grace through dead faith.

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb
reply to post by Akragon

 

I consider the timings theories the rapture itself I am pretty sure will happen very soon, however, I find it hard to believe that 1948 wasn't the start of the clock Biblically speaking.
gracethrufaith.com...

edit on 2-9-2013 by ServantOfTheLamb because: (no reason given)

So jesus said no one knows the time or day...

Yet you believe people can somehow outwit the same guy you call God by attempting to calculate something that no man can apparently know?

Good luck brother

reply to post by truejew


Faith is faith. Dead faith is the lack of faith. Acts depicted the temporary gifts of healing,prophecy and tongues. These legitamate fucntions of the Holy Spirit continued until the completion of the canon of scripture. There is no prophecy for the church age other than the rapture which closes the church age. There is no more speaking in tongues, or public healing in the Church age either. God may chose to heal as a response to prayer, but no man is a designated healer by the Holy Spirit. So emotional experience is not relevant. Part of the reason the chrch has apostacized is due to the dilusion of tongues, healing, and ecstatic emotion.

Originally posted by BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by truejew

 

Faith is faith. Dead faith is the lack of faith. Acts depicted the temporary gifts of healing,prophecy and tongues. These legitamate fucntions of the Holy Spirit continued until the completion of the canon of scripture. There is no prophecy for the church age other than the rapture which closes the church age. There is no more speaking in tongues, or public healing in the Church age either. God may chose to heal as a response to prayer, but no man is a designated healer by the Holy Spirit. So emotional experience is not relevant. Part of the reason the chrch has apostacized is due to the dilusion of tongues, healing, and ecstatic emotion.

Salvation happens the same way it has since the beginning of the Church.

reply to post by truejew


I agree, and no part of salvation ever involved work from the believer. Now, spiritual growth on the other hand is very laborous. All work must be done while filled with the Holy Spirit. Non-believers do not have the Holy Spirit, and therefore can not produce works of faith.

Originally posted by BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by truejew

 

I agree, and no part of salvation ever involved work from the believer.

Faith is necessary for salvation. Faith without works is dead.

The reason i feel y'all get heated is because religion is rooted in
the ego, the claims of most religions, the big ones for sure, are rooted
in somehow being superior to other humans.

Somehow religion fails to see this, think about it, it says, you made the
right choice in your belief, you picked the winning team, you will be
rewarded for your choice, its plain as day to me anywho.

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb
I personally believe that God takes care of me. I struggle financially, yet at the moment when hope is gone I'll get some cash from a relative or a friend. I might be going hungry one day, and he has people stop over with food or something of the nature. He works in my life constantly, and I could never repay him for that any other way than by telling you all that he truly does hold me in his hands and take care of me as a child. I wish and pray that some of the threads I post that do discuss logical positions for our belief will show atleast one of you the truth.

Along with being able to tell the difference between fiction and non-fiction, taking responsibility for yourself is a major part of growing up to become an adult.

If you need someone/something to hold your hand throughout your entire life then you'll never grow up.

Originally posted by spartacus699
I got a comment.....

What I really don't understand about some atheists is.....

1) Why they only have a beef with Christians and seemingly no other religions?

I'd expect the vast majority of the atheists you've met live in the west, where Christianity has been the dominate religion for around the last 2000 years. So the fact they have issues for the most part with Christianity can't be that surprising if you actually think about it...

2) Why they often know as much or more about the bible than Christians

A lot of the time it's because they've actually read the bible, and haven't just cherry picked the less offensive parts.

3) Why they get so passionate about trying to disprove something...like if it's really not there then why such zealousness about proving something doesn't exist?

This may of escaped you, but up until relatively recently if you and I had this exchange, I (being an atheist) would've been in a dangerous position, to the point of maybe loosing my neck and Christians should never be allowed to forget this (but now Christians act like the victims whenever it's made clear to them they no longer hold this position).

Like it makes no sense. It's like a Wine Connoisseur who knows everything about wine, but just has for some reason never taken a drink. Like if you're that close to it, frig just go drink so you know what it tastes like too. Don't just sit there talking about it. Go experience it so at least you know what it's like. Then some say they have, but I kinda doubt that. Maybe in some legalistic fashion, but obviously not from any spiritual standpoint.

Wine exists, you can buy it over the counter...

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


Great thread my friend. It's also good to see the civility here, too, on the part of all those members who have commented here.

It is sad to have to say that here in the UK these days there is no passion left about Faith discussion; that is one of the reasons I come to ATS because there are some very bright Christians who write here. The US seems to still have a strong belief among some of your citizens.

Regarding the rapture my understanding is that it will only be the 144,000 that meet Christ in the air. They will be the elect, those who have died for Christ and been slain for their testimony.

The Great Tribulation is a pretty dark thing that is coming on the world. I understand it that many Christians and others will lose their lives because they will not acknowledge and pay spiritual homage to the Lawless One; it clearly says they will be killed.

It clearly says that even Christ did not know when these things would take place. If He does not know then certainly no man or woman on earth will know. It does say that we will have a feeling of the times because we will see the signs, but the exact time of His coming will be like a thief in the night.

Also, it says that the Jews will not be deceived by the Lawless One. They will see him for what he is and it says that many of the Jews will turn to Christ in the last days.

Right now there is no mark that discriminates about buying and selling. We can all still buy and sell.

I will know it is time when I am told to worship some idol otherwise my head will be chopped off and I will not be able to buy and sell. That is clear enough indication to me.

I don't even pretend to be anything glorious in this life. I know my own sinful nature, but I do believe in Jesus Christ and I accept Him as The Messiah and I believe that He rose from the dead quite literally, too.

It is quite comforting these days because I find a great sympathy with the Jews. They are waiting for The Messiah and I am waiting for Him, too. They will not make the same mistake a second time and will know Him.

I went back packing to Israel. I went to The Old City at Jerusalem twice. I climbed up The Mount of Olives twice. I spent a night in the place on The Mount that they say is where Jesus wept over Jerusalem. It is a beautiful spot over looking The Old City, just above Gethsemene.

I had some fascinating experiences there that quite freaked me out spiritually and things have never been quite the same since.

I also got to touch the post of The Messiah Gate, the eastern gate of The Old City. It is blocked up with stone and surrounded with Muslim graves and spikes surround the actual gate. I climb over those just to touch that gate post and got in trouble with the guards when I came out the graveyard.I am crazy like that, lol. I had no fear going up The Mount in the middle of the night (which is a Palestinian area) and me being half Jewish, too, lol!

I am one who is looking to find common ground with Judaism in this day and age. We should remember that this people had to carry the weight of The LORD'S Prophesy through all the generations. The Dragon has never relented from persecuting that race in the world as we know, but The LORD endures.

Just like Jesus Paul mixed and ate and drank with pagans. I eat and drink with atheists all the time. I do not cut myself off from them. If Paul had done that there would be no such thing as gentile Christianity. Atheists here at ATS have actually done me a favour and made me study Scripture much harder because they do raise some good points. I always seem to find the answer in Scripture to refute any argument about the Scripture's authenticity and strength though.

It's a crazy old life. One poster here said we need to grow up and not have someone hold our hand. Man, I am happy to think of myself as a child because Jesus said we will only enter the Kingdom if we know that we are just a child; that is why He called us children. When I have to witness the deaths of loved ones and people I feel for I do need someone to hold my hand for sure; I admit that. Christ does a wonderful job at this.

When I face my own death in this world I will sure be looking for Him to hold my hand then. I believe humans are not meant to be alone. Why be alone in our agony and torment when there is a Messiah who can comfort us?

Also, don't go thinking that Christians don't believe in evolution either. I see no argument between The Bible and evolution. Evolution is a code of feedback that is part of Creation. Species change and adapt according to their environment. I do believe that The Creator laid down the blue print for all the species though. I believe in evolution as far as adaptation is concerned, but I disagree as to how the original creatures came here to earth. I believe we were created by a cosmic Scientist and Artist!

Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb
I personally believe that God takes care of me. I struggle financially, yet at the moment when hope is gone I'll get some cash from a relative or a friend. I might be going hungry one day, and he has people stop over with food or something of the nature. He works in my life constantly, and I could never repay him for that any other way than by telling you all that he truly does hold me in his hands and take care of me as a child. I wish and pray that some of the threads I post that do discuss logical positions for our belief will show atleast one of you the truth.

Along with being able to tell the difference between fiction and non-fiction, taking responsibility for yourself is a major part of growing up to become an adult.

If you need someone/something to hold your hand throughout your entire life then you'll never grow up.

Well I am a Christian and you are an atheist. Please can you tell me why you are more "grown up" than I?

I don't think you are any more grown up than me. Prove to me that somehow I am more childish than you because I believe in The Creator and you do not. How can that possibly be a fact?

Are you grown up enough to embrace danger like I did in the middle of the night on The Mount of Olives in a Palestinian area where children were pretending to shoot me, lol?

I tell you Faith can make you very fearless, fearless enough to be slain by your enemy just to stand up for what you believe, like Martin Luther King did ( a very Faithful Martyr).

This is a silly supposition.

Originally posted by Revolution9

Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb
I personally believe that God takes care of me. I struggle financially, yet at the moment when hope is gone I'll get some cash from a relative or a friend. I might be going hungry one day, and he has people stop over with food or something of the nature. He works in my life constantly, and I could never repay him for that any other way than by telling you all that he truly does hold me in his hands and take care of me as a child. I wish and pray that some of the threads I post that do discuss logical positions for our belief will show atleast one of you the truth.

Along with being able to tell the difference between fiction and non-fiction, taking responsibility for yourself is a major part of growing up to become an adult.

If you need someone/something to hold your hand throughout your entire life then you'll never grow up.

Well I am a Christian and you are an atheist. Please can you tell me why you are more "grown up" than I?

I don't think you are any more grown up than me. Prove to me that somehow I am more childish than you because I believe in The Creator and you do not. How can that possibly be a fact?

Are you grown up enough to embrace danger like I did in the middle of the night on The Mount of Olives in a Palestinian area where children were pretending to shoot me, lol?

I tell you Faith can make you very fearless, fearless enough to be slain by your enemy just to stand up for what you believe, like Martin Luther King did ( a very Faithful Martyr).

This is a silly supposition.

I wasn't actually talking about you personally, but.....

You just compared yourself to Martin Luther King, albeit indirectly

And you gave a dramatic account of something you claimed happened to you and how you reacted to it on an internet forum, and you expected me or anyone else to actually believe it...

I keep reading that God loves me but I'm not feeling it. I've been sick most of my life. I was abused as a child. I lost two careers, one to illness, the other to prejudice against atheists.

Boy, am I feeling the love. Please explain how you feel this love because I'm out of the loop.

I'm no longer an atheist. I believe there is an engineer of some kind behind all this but I don't think it's the Christian/Muslim/Judaic phantom. Whoever it is it is hands off in its approach.

Any love you feel is from within not without.