euro Vs pound

The UK should join and probably also will the European monetary unit.

I've been there also, would I want to give up a piece of nationalism for such a united currency. My initial thoughts were no, I loved our currency, which had been used for centuries, not something you easily want to give up. Now I have a different opinion, but there's still one big con: everything became more expensive after the Euro had been introduced. Some people will probably say non sense, but it's true. For every single cup of coffee you nowadays buy you pay approx €1.50, while I used to pay halve the amount in the pre-euro era.

But in the long term the Euro is an essential part to survive as one unity. With the US on one side and China on the other side, it's crucial to form one united block in order to be able to compete economically in the future. Europe is relatively small, and its old national currencies very relatively unimportant and weak, with the Sterling, Mark and Franc as exceptions. Those small currencies would never be able to survive an economic collapse as the one that is coming rather sooner than later.

One united and most importantly strong currency would be able to survive such a collapse. The demand for the Euro increases on a daily basis. Central banks are increasing their Euro stocks (Russia, Iran, China, Japan, Venezuela and the list goes on). Within a short period of time [if the Iranian situation doesn't change] the Euro will replace the Dollar initially in Iran (which has major longer term crude oil contracts with India and China) , but later on also in other countries, as they'll need larger amounts of Euros rather than Dollars. Basically, Iran will only accept payments in Euros, Venezuela and Russia are likely to follow, which could and probably will, lead to a domino effect on other countries, as they are automatically forced to do so.

The Euro is actually still dependent of the US Dollar, but one major difference compared to the initial situation is that the Euro should be able to survive and maintain as currency as soon as the Dollar has collapsed, while all those relatively weak currencies will not have the strength to do so.

Why Britain decided not to adopt the Euro:

Only the British will find themselves between a rock and a hard place. They have had a strategic partnership with the U.S. forever, but have also had their natural pull from Europe. So far, they have had many reasons to stick with the winner. However, when they see their century-old partner falling, will they firmly stand behind him or will they deliver the coup de grace? Still, we should not forget that currently the two leading oil exchanges are the New York’s NYMEX and the London’s International Petroleum Exchange (IPE), even though both of them are effectively owned by the Americans. It seems more likely that the British will have to go down with the sinking ship, for otherwise they will be shooting themselves in the foot by hurting their own London IPE interests. It is here noteworthy that for all the rhetoric about the reasons for the surviving British Pound, the British most likely did not adopt the Euro namely because the Americans must have pressured them not to: otherwise the London IPE would have had to switch to Euros, thus mortally wounding the dollar and their strategic partner.

Get the Euro in. Its not the first time the currency has been changed in living memory. The wrinkleys will get used to it eventually

Also each UK nation should decide for themselves whether to adopt the Euro and then eventually entry (or not) into the federal superstate All the recent transfer of powers to the devolved governments seem to be setting this in motion

If England wants to commit suicide then so be it. Go it alone but you aint dragging Wales down with you. As the only nation annexed into the UK , we'd be better off in the European Superstate as a small nation

And you wont have to change the flag ! as were never included on the Union Jack Win Win !

Originally posted by Mdv2
Basically, Iran will only accept payments in Euros, Venezuela and Russia are likely to follow, which could and probably will, lead to a domino effect on other countries, as they are automatically forced to do so.

Russia is going to accept payment for their oil in rubles, not Euros. But Iran probably will change to Euros unless they are attacked. And Venezuela will probably change to Euros.

I don't know why the UK doesn't join the EU. I think what Mdv2 said made sense about the UK would do better being a super state in the EU...but aren't Europeans prejudiced of each other? Like the German and British and French and British?

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
I don't know why the UK doesn't join the EU.

- We already are and have been full members of it for over 30 years.

I think what Mdv2 said made sense about the UK would do better being a super state in the EU.

- The truth is that 'single-superstate' idea is a myth.

It is not going to happen and could not happen as the recent votes on the so-called 'constitution' in France and Holland prove.
The big EU single-superstate is not something the European public are in any hurry for.

It is an ideal for some (as it has been an ideal with some all across Europe for centuries) and a scary figment of the imagination of those generally anti-EU.

..but aren't Europeans prejudiced of each other? Like the German and British and French and British?

- We can all crack jokes and make silly comments but we're all generally bigger than that and when it comes down to the serious matters Europe has been engaging in closer and closer economic and political integration for over 50yrs (which is not something that requires or indicates a 'superstate').

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
but aren't Europeans prejudiced of each other? Like the German and British and French and British?

No more than the prejudices most "educated" people have in this country towards rural southerners. And I personally really don't care for easterners myself

This may seam silly but im for keeping the Pound because I don't like the look of the Euro. Its like Australia's funny money with the silly colours and such.

However i wouldn't mind the adoption of the Euro if we were allowed to print our own money (the banks that is) like what we do here in Scotland that way we can print the Queens head on our Euros.

So Blair is still commanded to push the globalist/EU agenda of economic integration for England. I thought it was off the table but I guess I don't follow what happens over there that much. Keep one thing in mind though, the more integrated you become the more likely that integrated taxation and transfers will happen too.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Russia is going to accept payment for their oil in rubles, not Euros.

You are right, my statement was based on older information:

The Iranian and Russian parliaments have recently discussed adopting the euro for oil sales.

Last year Russia entered into negotiations with Germany over the establishment of an exchange to sell oil futures denominated in euros. Russia, which on some measures is the world's Number 1 oil producer at the moment, is awash with petrodollars, but trades mainly with Europe. Russia's foreign exchange holdings recently reached an all-time high of $50bn.

Guardian, 2003

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
I don't know why the UK doesn't join the EU. I think what Mdv2 said made sense about the UK would do better being a super state in the EU...but aren't Europeans prejudiced of each other? Like the German and British and French and British?

As Sminkey already said, there will never be such a Euro super state you're reffering to. Though, there will be a higher level of cooperation between member states, but losing your British, French or Dutch nationality, there's no way that's going to happen, nor is there anyone able to properly found such a statement.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
So Blair is still commanded to push the globalist/EU agenda of economic integration for England. I thought it was off the table but I guess I don't follow what happens over there that much. Keep one thing in mind though, the more integrated you become the more likely that integrated taxation and transfers will happen too.

Don't complain. The UK has a major rebate on EU contributions. Besides, British companies suffer heavily because of the over-valued Pound Sterling.

When the pound has a high value relative to other currencies it is difficult to export from the UK, as UK exports are overpriced internationally, but it is cheap to import goods into the UK. Many UK manufacturers complain that the high value of the pound makes it very difficult to export.

Guardian

What if the UK 'Home nations' decided they wanted to use Euros and England alone did not?

Why should the rest UK have to go along with England's lone decision?

I don't think that the UK countries would split up over that, it would be better to do it as a whole nation.

Personally I want the pound to stay (Orah up the empire! and all that huzzah) but I dont mind being more involved with the EU.

Oh and sminkey, by you saying "accepting englands lone decision" are you saying englands changing its mind on saying that the scots are really in control in some kind of weird northern conspiricy?

Originally posted by devilwasp
by you saying "accepting englands lone decision" are you saying englands changing its mind on saying that the scots are really in control in some kind of weird northern conspiricy?

- I don't think 'England' honestly thinks Scotland is really in control, that's just a rather well-worn and ridiculous Daily Mail/Telegraph type line (tho undoubtedly those guys imagine they are the real England - even if they actually despise England, as she actually is for the most part, today).

Even a Scots born PM or a Scottish Chancellor or a couple of Scots Ministers does not equate to Scotland 'running England'; there are huge tiers of senior establishment types doing that and the idea that they are Scots is laughable.

What I was trying to get at is where would we all be if the rest of the nations comprising the UK wanted to go for the Euro but were held back by England refusing it?

I imagine the referendum vote, of course, would be lost in this event (because it would be conducted on a UK-wide basis) but whether or not that placed a strain on the union or provoked change later is another matter.

BTW I am not one who believes in the shallow and, IMO, utterly nonsensical view that claims England gets nothing out of the Union and that the Union merely costs England.
That's just propaganda for those who lap that kind of stuff up.
They wouldn't have spent centuries doing it (at such vast human, material and financial cost) if that were really so.

IIRC in the case of Scotland she contributes more of the total tax take than a straight % of population would suggest......but obviously people often play statistical games with this issue (the usual trick is to compare rural Scottish costs with urban English.....and simply deny there is a difference to account for in that).
Some of the 'savings' England makes aren't even quantifiable under 'ordinary accountancy'.
(like the security unions brings, the lack of border controls, the common use of the £ sterling etc etc)

[edit on 24-11-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

we are not apart of the EMI due to "Black Wednesday" when the Pound took a jump of the white cliffs of Dover, so in theory, we dont have to join the Euro cause we are not a member of the EMI anymore...;

but in time, we will join it. Give it about 10 years

Britain should keep the pound for it's own safety

Look what happened in the countries that now have the euro. Here in Holland we are all screaming to get our beloved Gulden back. Not because it has a long history, but because it was trusted. Because of the euro, inflation could do anything it wanted, prices have almost doubled, while paychecks didn't changed so much. Inflation, inflation, inflation, that's all it brought, and now, people are more and more starting to feel the effects. More and more people grow into financial problems everyday just because they can't pay off their debts anymore, while before 2002, they would be able to do so...

This may be seen as highjacking the thread, but is the real question, if we should accept the dollar rather than the Euro?

There was a time once.......when the Pound was the globally recognised currency today, it has to be the US dollar. I can go most places in the world and get currency exchanged for US dollars on the black market. Yes to a degree this does work for Pounds, Euros...No

The UK again missed the boat in Europe, we should have had the strategy to get the queen head of Europe, and the Pound the only currency.

How many people in the Euro zone would vote to keep the euro? When the Euro came in, most of the Europe colleagues complained that prices in real terms when up and living cost more.

With a single currency, you would not expect the vast differances in the costs of the same goods in a single marketplace. Just look at the cost of petrol around the Euro zone. There is not such as big change when travelling around the US.

I am in favour of keeping the Pound. I can see not real benefit to move the the Euro and would rather the cost of conversion was used to fund the NHS, Police and the like.

The EU is pointless. It is a power thing only. "Free trade"??? It can be free if they wanted it to be without "EU" stamped all over it.

I'm firmly AGAINST the Euro, and even more so against EUROPE.

Europe is a throw back from WW2. What Hitler started (in terms of conquering countries and turning it into a super state), they're finishing, only through political means, not war.

Wake up people, before it is too late (it almost already is).

[edit on 24-6-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

I think the UK should adopt the Euro. At times i think the the UK dosent like to be in the EU. They dont even want to change to the metric system.

It makes it much easier for people to travel around the EU and trade with just the one currency.

Look at the Republic and Northern Ireland, I worked in Ireland and had to travel to Belfast on a few occasions for work, and everytime I had to change my money, even for something simple as buying lunch or a drink!

I am in favour of a single currency across Europe, just why does it have to be the Euro? Yes I know the Europe does have the advantage today as it is accepted across Europe, but Europe said they would accept the Pound/£/GBP would that not take the stuffing out of many who oppose closer ties with the EU and have a major problem with the Euro?

Many I suspect in the UK, see the Euro as a Franco/German construct, and that the power base of control and management of the Euro does not rest in London.

I work for a European company, and many of my colleagues do hark back to the days of the former currencies as many of them believe that the move to the Euro was an opportunity for a general hike in prices, but as soon as they move around the Euro zone, they do see the advantage.

I just wonder if France and Germany would consider having the Pound as a single European currency to further the greater good of the EU?

reply to post by Freedom ERP


Historically fact;

The orignal plan was agreed that London would host the European Central Bank, but we said "no" to the Euro

Britain should switch to the Euro asap, but it won't happen if we get a bloody Tory government or under Brown

Why should Europe use the pound?

I’m sorry, but I know many people at home in Ireland who would have a problem using notes with the queen printed all over them.

The EURO is a common European currency, not belonging or from one particular country. How would you like if they said how about we all just use Francs? It’s not really fair.

UK should move in line with the EU, in all cases, not just the currency if it wants to keep calling it’s self a member.

Mikey

reply to post by Mikey84


And why should I have to use the Euro?

If the Franco/German alliance want a single currency across Europe, and they want to include the UK in this, something will have to give.