euro Vs pound

ok guys blair wants us to use EURO's

who's against
and
who's for
and why

i am against for the following reason
the pound is stronger then the euro because its worth $1.86 as the euro is worth $1.45

I personally hope for the UK out of the EU. As such i really hope the UK doesn't adopt the euro.

It is true that London acts as the financial center of the EU, where most financial firms have their HQ's, but the majority of such firms are foreign.

There were some continental attempts to create a financial center, but they haven't yet materialized, i guess it is hard to decide.

Once (if) London ceases to be the main financial center of Europe, the value of the pound will dramatically devalue, as such ,accepting the UK into the euro at this stage would mean filling the purses of the UK citizens at the expense of the Continent.

Originally posted by Bodrul
i am against for the following reason
the pound is stronger then the euro because its worth $1.86 as the euro is worth $1.45

- Sorry Bodrul, I don't get your reasoning here.
Those are just equivelant values regardless of the actual numbers used - other wise people would just cash from one currency to the other to be making pots of money.

Simply because 1x� = $1.86 does not mean the � is 'stronger' because although 1x Euro = $1.45 it is also 'worth approx �0.70.

Originally posted by Tartessian
It is true that London acts as the financial center of the EU, where most financial firms have their HQ's, but the majority of such firms are foreign.

- Of course, so what?

If Europe is to have a 'financial centre' would it not be better to have it in London one of the world's premier existing 'financila centres' rather than creating a new one or developing a younger one in say, Frankfurt?

There were some continental attempts to create a financial center, but they haven't yet materialized, i guess it is hard to decide.

- I think you'll find Frankfurt would happily be in to take the role if London abdicates it....and the wealth it will inevitably generate.

Onve (if) London ceases to be the main financial center of Europe, the value of the pound will dramatically devalue,

- Well it would decline a little. "dramatically devalue" is more than slightly exaggerating the matter.

Actually there have previously already been announcements to this effect and it made no difference to the value of the � whatsoever.

as such ,accepting the UK into the euro at this stage would mean filling the purses of the UK citizens at the expense of the Continent.

- I do not understand this at all how does this follow?
Could you explain this idea further?

Personally I am very pro-EU and pro-Euro although I accept that now probably is not be the right time to go into the Euro.

But in my view British membership of the Euro is simply a matter of when not if.....and quite right too!

[edit on 12-11-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

On a global scale it is certainly a benefit for UK to join Europe and more precisely the so-called euro zone. But the main reason why UK is still in majority against it is likely because the Queen is not on the notes!

I know very well what I say (U2U me for details, I won't clarify here why...) and I say that the British are British. They are not Europeans. That's what they think. They could do with a euro if the Queen was on every note and coin. But this won't happen. As a "Brit" told me: (funny btw) "them, Americans, think that they are the best in the world. But we, British, don't. We KNOW it."

Please all believe now that I have nothing at all again British people, traditions, culture,... I am just stating that they have a different point of view.

But I am getting now to the point as such... Joining the euro zone would be an asset for any country with a "strong" economy. So far UK has a strong economy. It is a fact though, that since the euro has started, it has been going up against all and every currency in the world, especially against the dollar now. It doesn't mean indeed that it is strong, but it gets some credibility at least. And this credibility is benevolent to any country that uses that currency for trade exchanges.

I don't want to go into NWO things, but I really think that grouping is better than splitting. It doesn't imply removing differences.

Originally posted by bodrul
ok guys blair wants us to use EURO's

who's against
and
who's for
and why

i am against for the following reason
the pound is stronger then the euro because its worth $1.86 as the euro is worth $1.45

Oh, and... Just so you know... At the present moment, �1.00 = $1.9443 �1.00 = $1.3445. This makes it so that �1.00 is �1.4448. 3 years earlier �1.00 was about �1.65.

Who's going down?

Im against the EU so im against the Euro.

Originally posted by shorty
Im against the EU so im against the Euro.

yah

The pound has survived through think and thin

I'd vote to keep the pound. I'm not against a European Union; the reduced red tape, business links, free trade, free movement of people are all beneficial. I do think though, that all countries in the union should maintain their own currencies, sovereignty and economic policy control.

Originally posted by Paul
I'd vote to keep the pound. I'm not against a European Union; the reduced red tape, business links, free trade, free movement of people are all beneficial.

- I agree 100% with that.

I do think though, that all countries in the union should maintain their own currencies, sovereignty and economic policy control.

- In an ideal world that might be so but unfortunately we live in a world far from ideal.

The fact is, IMHO, we have little or no actual "sovereignty" right now in the international markets (as 'black wednesday' proved....which was the true lesson of that day, studiously ignored by the UK 'right') and the only way to get some to exert substantial, real and actual financial control over the currency we use and our economy is collectively with our nearest partners.

As the Euro grows the pound sterling will be squeezed between it and the dollar and might well come to be less and less sustainable, sooner rather than too much later. Whether we like it or not I think the pound's days are numbered.

As I said I think it's a matter of timing, a 'when?' not an 'if?'.

Well let me start off by saying that I live in the UK (Scotland to be precise) and I am pro-euro. I would be for a united Europe with each country gaining the roll of a US state. I also would not mined if the UK adopted the Euro I think the presence of UK in the euro would help stabilise it. Help investment in UK and also give the UK a bigger and more important place in the EU. Though I would like everyone in the EU to start using the pound that�s not going to happen and I would have no problem in the UK (or even just Scotland) adopting the euro.

Originally posted by Elfwood
I would have no problem in the UK (or even just Scotland) adopting the euro.

- Now there's an interesting idea.

What if the UK 'Home nations' decided they wanted to use Euros and England alone did not?

Why should the rest UK have to go along with England's lone decision?

Maybe the real dictating we should be concerned about is much closer to home and not coming at us in the guise of the EU, hmmm?

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
What if the UK 'Home nations' decided they wanted to use Euros and England alone did not?

The decision to join the euro should be put to a national referedum for the whole of the UK not just single countries.

Why should the rest UK have to go along with England's lone decision?

Englands such an evil country isn't it hording all the wealth

Originally posted by UK Wizard
The decision to join the euro should be put to a national referedum for the whole of the UK not just single countries.

- Why?

Englands such an evil country isn't it hording all the wealth

- What are you on about Wizard?
What has "evil" got to do with it?
England as the major part of the UK has spent centuries aggressively constructing a 'union' on her terms.
Where is the surprise that this affects things economically now and that England still acts accordingly?

This is, IMO, probably the true root of the 'little-englander' tory attitudes to Europe, nothing but pure paranoia that the nations of the EU will in that union treat England in the manner that England has treated the 'Home Nations' historically in hers.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- Why?

Why not?

England as the major part of the UK has spent centuries aggressively constructing a 'union' on her terms.

So you'd be happier if the UK never existed?

This is, IMO, probably the true root of the 'little-englander' tory attitudes to Europe, nothing but pure paranoia that the nations of the EU will in that union treat England in the manner that England has treated the 'Home Nations' historically in hers.

I was wondering how long it would take to blame the Tory's

Originally posted by UK Wizard
Why not?

- Why must the UK be uniform in the currency we use? It is only a representation of value.

So you'd be happier if the UK never existed?

- Did I ever say that Wizard?

I think you'll find I have always been in favour of more co-operation, union and agreement not less.

But I prefer real voluntary co-operation and a genuine free union.

But one cannot escape the fact that the UK is a construct on English terms and that for it to survive (particularly when the 'Home Nations have the EU to look to if they want out) it must redress that balance.

Open your eyes Wizard, I speak as an Englishman but with close family from around the UK/British Isles.

I was wondering how long it would take to blame the Tory's

- No, I wasn't blaming the tories about anything, if you look agaion you'll see that I was giving what I see as a plausible answer for their attitudes.

No to the Euro. Why?

"The Rest of the World" is a bigger, more vibrant, faster growing club than the EU. Britain has always looked way beyond Europe in it's ambitions. To succeed on the world stage we have to retain our independence and not be tied by the trade agreements, tariffs, and protectionism promoted by the EU. It's also important that we keep control of monetary policy (i.e. interest rates), something we would lose if we gave up the sterling.

Originally posted by muppet
"The Rest of the World" is a bigger, more vibrant, faster growing club than the EU.

- That's an interesting theory but it does ignore the fact that the 'rest of the world' also has it's commercial collectives operating tarrif agreements etc.

This is not a case of simply the EU on the one hand and a totally freely trading 'rest of the world' on the other.

.......and just because Europe's growth is sluggish at the moment is hardly much of a guide.
Not very long ago Europe had very impressive economic stats.

Britain has always looked way beyond Europe in it's ambitions.

- OK, but Britain once had an Empire and in any event Britain has also always looked to Europe as well.
To paraphrase Churchill - until someone finds the means to uproot Britiain and anchor her far away from continental Europe's shores Europe will always be Britain's priomary focus in the world.

To succeed on the world stage we have to retain our independence and not be tied by the trade agreements, tariffs, and protectionism promoted by the EU.

- I suggest before you get too carried away with this kind of convincing sounding rhetoric you consider why the UK joined the EEC/EU in the first place.
A swift look at the UK's post-war trading performance in the 'independant arena' (even with the undoubted advantage of the huge commonwealth) demonstrates just why British politicians were desparate to join.....

....and why the 'anti side' are - still - so dangerously wrong.

It's also important that we keep control of monetary policy (i.e. interest rates), something we would lose if we gave up the sterling.

- Naaaa, I don't agree.
I think this is fantasy.
The truth is there is no such thing as absolute financial 'sovereignty' it is, IMO, only a question of how much 'sovereignty' one might retain.

Ar present the supposedly 'independant' Bank of England is entirely hostage to the international markets and the political setting within which they, and we, operate.

I suggest people think about 'Black Wednesday' (when sterling - no matter what efforts the BOE, attempting to exercise it's independant 'sovereignty - was ejected from the Exchange Rate Mechanism).

We have very little 'economic sovereignty' alone, by joining the Euro we gain a much greater degree of actual influence and control by pooling the little we have now.

If we stay out I can see the UK having a very miserable time until we accept the inevitable and join. Being sqeeezed between the US dollar and the Euro is not likely to be a pleasant experience.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
This is not a case of simply the EU on the one hand and a totally freely trading 'rest of the world' on the other.

Quite true, but that is exactly WHY we should stay out. We would be free to engage in agreements that suit our economy.

To paraphrase Churchill - until someone finds the means to uproot Britiain and anchor her far away from continental Europe's shores Europe will always be Britain's priomary focus in the world.

Well you know I'm a big Churchill fan, but I think with regards to Europe his views are now outdated. In his time the main issue was ensuring a stable European peace. Now that's not really an issue. Better communications, international business, foreign holidays etc have all changed the we see the world, and it's highly unlikely the people of western europe will be persuaded to set upon each other by their leaders as they have in the past.

- I suggest before you get too carried away with this kind of convincing sounding rhetoric

Like I say, I'm a Churchill fan... whether or not I'm right is someone else's problem!

We have very little 'economic sovereignty' alone, by joining the Euro we gain a much greater degree of actual influence and control by pooling the little we have now.

I think you've fallen into the rhetoric trap now. How can we increase our influence be diluting our politics with 25 other countries? What is it that we have so little of right now that we need to "pool"?

Originally posted by muppet
that is exactly WHY we should stay out. We would be free to engage in agreements that suit our economy.

- First of all we are already in the EU. Why should British commerce disadvantage itself by staying out of the Euro? Given the level of British trade with the rest of Europe British companies would certainly benefit from reduced costs and greater efficiencies if we were to join.

......and let's not forget that inward investment to the UK is, as far as many large companies are concerned, totally dependant on the UK remaining a 'full partner' in the EU with Euro membership a matter of 'when' and not 'if'.

I'd say remaining a serious partner in the worlds single biggest commercial union - as we have been for 30+yrs as well as the previous 10yrs+ attuning the economy to the EEC/EU's - must figure enormously in what suits our economy.

What is it that we have so little of right now that we need to "pool"?

- The UK is particularly vulnerable to being swept along by the whims of international currency exchanges as so much of the UK's (Sterling's) trade is done outside of the UK.
Whereas 80% of the Euro-zone's trade is effectively 'internal' and not subject to potential external 'harm'.
The UK is effectively unable to 'control' it's currency in volitile times whereas the Euro is not subject to that kind of possible volitility.

The idea of economic sovereignty alone is a myth.
The whole point of such 'sovereignty' is to enable us to have economic stability.......something which we seem to have for now (but dispite these few calm years) it is something which has eluded the UK's economy for decades, much to our disadvantage.

I am undecided yet.

I am for the follwing reasons: It'll make it easier to see how badly the UK is being ripped off by tax that doesn't get re-invested. E.g: Petrol, Booze, etc.

Against: The pound is still stronger.

I don't know. If it started a full European integration, im al for it.