How the Fukushima Ice Barrier Will Block Radioactive Groundwater

Of course it's a huge project - but it needs to be done. And I don't know how the radioactive water would "go around" something that fully encloses it.. that would be a neat trick.

Give them a chance to roll this out - too many doom and gloomers seem to WANT all attempts to fail, and I think would have negative feedback no matter what solution was suggested.

I wonder at what point would a nearby country say enough is enough and drop an anonymous nuke on fukishima? How much leeway are the neighbors gonna give them to keep contaminating the whole ocean. I am surprised it hasn't happened yet.

reply to post by purplemer



well, that sounds like a great idea! and the power could come from nuclear reactors. its good the nuclear authority has ok'd it. they must have ok'd the original construction on an area that witnessed equal tsunamis 105 years before, so they'll be very familiar with it. and who better to build it than the politicians who had the intelligence to permit it in the first place.

Originally posted by purplemer
The whole of japan is tectonically unstable.. What choice do they have...

The choice to not build any reactors whatsoever in Japan. As a matter of fact, Not even one more should be built anywhere on planet Earth. All it's going to take is a large asteroid or meteorite to hit and the worldwide multiple reactors are going to fail or be destroyed. It will be a death sentence for mankind. Foolish mortals we human beings are. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by SheopleNation


Chernoble shoulda been a big enough of a clue to let the dumbass humans know that it just isn't worth the risk on land, let alone on coastlines........ What a disaster.

reply to post by TKDRL


I know, and I don't see a good ending to this. They are going to just keep on building more like the imbeciles that they are without a single thought about life and future life on this planet. This is criminal of the highest sort.

Unfortunately there is no leadership on this catastrophe, no checks and balances, no responsibility, and absolutely no accountability whatsoever whether it's Tepco, the Government of Japan, or the yes men carpetbaggers here in D.C or the Internationalist Corporations that own them.

Yeah but like I have said many times before, just a bunch of back door hand jobs going on in order to keep silent about what will end up being the greatest modern day disaster in Humankind, not to mention all life that calls Earth their home. All because TPTB on both sides don't want to lose a buck in the name of Humanity. It really is a sad state of affairs. ~$heopleNation

initially the ice thing seems like a good idea but i'm just not sure it will work AND it's going to take a LONG time to build. i also don't trust them to do it right. they already have 1000 barrels that are unstable due to crappy workmanship and are leaking....

BBC News

It might not actually take that long to build using this method. I'm impressed.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
I don't think it will work. It sounds like an enormously expensive project with an enormously long list of things that can go wrong. Even if it works as expected, it will not stop the cores from radiating, but rather stop groundwater from flowing into and out of the area where the cores should be.

But.... yes, that is something at least. I don't see how it can make things worse, and with the support of experts on the ground, I say good try. Maybe it'll prove me wrong and work like a dream. I hope so.

If it works, it will do so at great expense to the people of Japan... I hope no one goes hungry trying to pay for this, although I can see where excessive groundwater radiation would be pretty bad as well.

Gonna be watching this with crossed fingers...

TheRedneck

There just desprately trying to avoid the Russian solution they dont have the land to spare. But in the end i see lots of concrete and a huge dead zone.

reply to post by dragonridr

Concrete encasement is not an option in Fukushima. The cores are underground already, and concrete will not stop groundwater... it's porous.

Chernobyl's core was still exposed, and there was no croundwater drainage into the ocean.

This may well be the only option available.... if it works.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by dragonridr

Concrete encasement is not an option in Fukushima. The cores are underground already, and concrete will not stop groundwater... it's porous.

Chernobyl's core was still exposed, and there was no croundwater drainage into the ocean.

This may well be the only option available.... if it works.

TheRedneck

Ok thats not correct first what they did is dug ground tanks to hold water. Then they started pumping water into the damaged reactor or more to the point on. Point is to keep it cool. The Japanese are still holding on to hope of decommissioning the plant. The problem is one of there hastily built tanks is now leaking mostly because they keep trying to band aid the problem. They could easily cover the reactor core in cement then build a structure around it. There scared though because this means they can never clean it up.

reply to post by dragonridr

Of course they want to decommission the plant. Of course the tanks being bolted and gasketed instead of welded is why they are leaking. But you cannot just seal the place up with concrete and expect water to flow around it. The problem is groundwater flow from the mountains west of Fukushima to the shore just east of Fukushima. That groundwater is flowing through the ground, past the cores, and into the ocean. If you pour concrete over the reactors, the groundwater will flow through the ground, underneath the concrete, past the cores, and into the ocean. If you manage to find the cores and seal them in concrete (good luck with that!), the groundwater will flow through the ground, through the porous concrete, past the cores, through the porous concrete, and into the ocean.

Concrete is porous... water will flow through it. That's why basements must be sealed to prevent groundwater from flowing in through the concrete walls. You have to have access to all the surfaces of the cured concrete to seal it, and that is impossible when filling in a hole. When the concrete cures, you have access only to the top of it.

The two situations are dramatically different.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck



Not all concrete is porous it depends on how it cures and pressures used. You can indeed make non porous concrete. Case in point if you have water seepage in a dam you have a big problem they dont like it when water gets through a dam. So concrete can sit under water and keep anything dry if done properly. Also the older concrete gets the stronger it becomes a bit contradictory to what people believe.Problem is we are used to using concrete blocks these are porous and designed to be that way.

think of ice cubes blocking your rum and seven up,, when u tiilt the glass up,,, yup,,should work,,
give me another one,, gotta experiment some more,, can the govt. pay for this research?

reply to post by dragonridr

The concrete used in a dam is porous just like every other type of concrete. The difference is it has been sealed to make it waterproof. You do not have to be able to see holes like in a concrete block for water to seep through a material.

Concrete is not waterproof, no matter what kind of pressure you place on it or how you cure it. Every basement ever built with concrete that did not have waterproofing on it has leaked. Now if you want to seal it with one of the many sealers available, sure, it is then waterproof. But in order to apply sealant, you must have access to the surface of the cured concrete. That's not possible, again, when you're filling in a hole.

TEPCO has made mistake after mistake after mistake... I would personally like to NOT see them make another mistake. This is not exactly the most opportune time to do so.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


They have something called marine cement it is non porous in fact they even build boats out of cement. Marine cement is specifically designed not to allow water seepage thats why its used in jetties and oh building marinas for example. So we have the technology to encase the reactors and prevent ground water from gettin in the problem is Japan doesnt want to do this because they want to remove the reactor when they find a way to get it under control. But i think this is a pipe dream the dangerous part isnt even the reactors themselves its the used rods they had stored in the facility.

reply to post by dragonridr

Link please? I know of no non-porous concrete mix, and a quick search turned up nothing except sealers that are applied after curing.

TheRedneck

The could then use a backup wall/barrier behind the ice wall made of cement and a expoxy top coating to stop leaks from occuring. Either way the situation is messed up and we are all very screwed.

Solving The Fukushima Radioactivity Problem: Dump It All Into The Ocean

I’m reading with mounting incredulity the increasingly frenzied reports about the radiation problems at the site of the crippled reactors at Fukushima. The idea seems to be gathering speed that there is some major problem at the site, one that’s going to have regional or even global implications for health and the environment. I’m afraid this simply isn’t true. We do have a very expensive problem and there are also highly local problems at the plant. But in the larger scheme of things the dangers are somewhere between vanishingly trivial and non-existent. Indeed, an entirely reasonable and sensible solution to the radioactive water at the plant would be to simply dump it all into the ocean.

www.forbes.com...:energy

I don't suppose all the worryworts on ATS will like this idea will they?

reply to post by GaryN


Ummmmmm, no I don't like that idea at all. Polluting oceans is bad, really bad.