Venus Species vs. Orion Species

reply to post by tanka418


Alright, I'll play. I don't believe there's any Venusians involved, and I admit skepticism on yours or anyone's claim of natural telepathy. But, let's assume natural and non technological telepathy is possible. Let's then also assume these "venutian's" are far more advanced than we are, and may have been around us for awhile. Let's also assume unlike your dog, they are higher order intellectuals like us. The main hindrance to telepathy I would think is understanding not species. If both they and us share symbolic understanding, it would be logical communicative telepathy would be easier between us, than you with your dog. Assuming these things, or even just the, they've been at it awhile and thus have the skill to overcome that barrier. The, they couldn't communicate telepathically, is not a good argument. Since we don't even know which telepathic communications they use or the mechanics behind them.

Originally posted by ArdenWolf
reply to post by tanka418

 

Alright, I'll play. I don't believe there's any Venusians involved, and I admit skepticism on yours or anyone's claim of natural telepathy. But, let's assume natural and non technological telepathy is possible. Let's then also assume these "venutian's" are far more advanced than we are, and may have been around us for awhile. Let's also assume unlike your dog, they are higher order intellectuals like us. The main hindrance to telepathy I would think is understanding not species. If both they and us share symbolic understanding, it would be logical communicative telepathy would be easier between us, than you with your dog. Assuming these things, or even just the, they've been at it awhile and thus have the skill to overcome that barrier. The, they couldn't communicate telepathically, is not a good argument. Since we don't even know which telepathic communications they use or the mechanics behind them.

Okay, as I do believe in "natural" telepathy, feel I kind of have to.

Firstly, my animal is not a "Dog" they are "High-content Wolfdogs"; In the canine world Wolves are as far above dogs as huans are above their nearest cousins in intelligence. Wolfdogs lie in-between. Both my animals are highly intelligent, both use simple abstractions; I just want to establish that it will be easier with my puppies. The fact that I've lived with them all their lives (8 yrs) also helps. So...

This Guy from Venus tried to contact me via telepathy, no clue how exactly he got my "address", but there he was, knock, knock, knockin' on my "brain door"; as it were. I checked out the consciousness stream and it was totally alien, I mean totally non-human. Not just non-terrestrial, but non-Human. I could tell that it was highly intelligent by the rich symbol set, but, I didn't recognize any of them, even the "feelings" and emotions were ... well I'm not sure what they were.

Are getting the picture? An entity like this would be severely hampered when attempting to talk to a Terrestrial Human, probability would see to suggest that this difficulty should be quite severe. When I tried it with my female all I got back was a "jumble" of imagery and "feeling", nothing I could make sense of. I attributed that to the fact that our whole commutative base is different. I use sophisticated verbal language, and even more sophisticated telepathic symbology than she does. I very new at this, so, I don't process strange as well as others. Ista, my female, seems to understand simple communication from me however, as does my male.

I want to thank everyone for the "mature content" of your posts!

I don't have time to respond to everyone individually, but I am reading, and loving it.

reply to post by tanka418


Ok, you mentioned symbols. If you can both conceptualize and understand symbolism, then no I don't buy the communication barrier as anywhere near insurmountable. The entity was able to communicate symbolism you didn't understand. But that means it was communicating symbols. That's all you need to form a language consensus. At that point the only thing preventing communication is time and effort. Equivalent to pointing to a rock and each saying your word or communicating your equivalent understanding of it.

Yes the unequivocal emotions is a difficulty, but once again, not insurmountable. So I ask, were there symbols communicated as you said? If so you successfully exchanged language and were simply lacking context. You should have the same difficulty dealing with a sociopath that speaks a completely foreign language.

As for the dog/wolf dog thing. Dogs have wide ranges of intellect. I'd love to see your proof of this super canine that makes all dogs the equivalent of apes to us in comparison. I call BS on that. Sorry for my language. But as a lover of wolves and dogs, I've never seen such in my studies.

reply to post by ArdenWolf


Yes to all of it. And, if you have been following my argument, that's what I've been saying.

The Ra channelings, and indeed all other channelings are spontaneous, sometimes one-off events. There is no time spent "getting to know the 'other'". Over time I have improved my skills in regards to my puppies, so, as you say; given time. But, remember, the time is not taken.

Metaphysically speaking; they are in all probability channeling their "higher-self". While this is not a bad thing, it is incumbent on the channeler to know this and properly respond.

By the way; not surprised you don't see much difference between Wolves and Dogs. They are quite similar. I've lived with a single "extended" family/pack for a little over 30 years. I don't recommend it, but wouldn't trade the experience for anything. And, with the telepathy starting to work, our relationship is some different than in the past...it's interesting and I like it.
.

Oh I know there are differences and similarities between dogs and wolves. But I argue one is not innately more intelligent than the other. They've demonstrated different intelligences. For example wolves will spend a long time trying to get at food specifically set up that they can't get to it stubbornly, while a dog will give up sooner and look to the human for help. The wolf is more likely to figure out the problem himself but the dog is more likely to look to us for help sooner rather than waste the energy trying the same thing over and over again. Which is smarter? Really dogs are so accumulated to being with us, they've evolved to think differently. They aren't less intelligent than wolves, nor are wolves smarter. They're different. Some dogs are thick as bricks, some are really smart. I'd certainly not consider the really smart dogs stupider than wolves. Not by a long shot. There's no where near the difference to make a human ape comparison. Except rat dogs, all dumb as bricks :-P

As for the alien communication. I only speak english. I have friends who speak english and spanish. My inability to speak spanish does not prevent my bilingual friend from communicating with me. So if we assume the alien in this scenario knows "english" then communication from the alien shouldn't be an issue. With all the supposed "abductions" and mind messing the aliens supposedly do. Taking the time to learn to communicate before pretending to or being spiritual guru's or the like is not really a logic problem.

Just because the person doesn't perceive any problem on the alien's part, doesn't mean they didn't have one at some point.

Of course if there are aliens, I personally think dicking with the primitives for personal enjoyment is a favorite past time as it makes so much more sense to me with all the claims that are out there than the claims do themselves. I don't deny a lot of this may occur, more I argue against it actually being what it seems at face value.

I also argue against the concept that aliens would necessarily be above such things. We're quick to make them just sinister, or really crazy nice and spiritual, but so quick to discount that they could just be complete and total dicks for which we are little more than a source of amusement.

If you look at history you will see a common theme of conquest, domination and assimilation of the fragmented masses into a sequentialized and controlled hive mindset. The consciousness behind this consolidation has its own agenda for its subservients and a better understanding of our true history and the importance of our state of distraction in order for their illusions of fear to stifle the divine spark within each and every one of us.. As a species we have been genetically dumbed down by altering the bio mechanical program which remains under continued attack to this day through fluoridation, chlorination, GMO's, vaccines, and numerous other means of manipulation.

Do you ever consider what their motivation is? What is their ultimate prize?

sequential versus simultaneous incarnations

assimlation techniques

another technique

the black league

Can we please readdress the fact that Venus is too much of an armpit (hot, poisonous, too much atmospheric pressure) to give rise to intelligent life?

reply to post by poet1b

In scientific research evidence is accumulated through observations of phenomena that occur in the natural world, or which are created as experiments in a laboratory or other controlled conditions. Scientific evidence usually goes towards supporting or rejecting a hypothesis.

One must always remember that the burden of proof is on the person making a contentious claim. Within science, this translates to the burden resting on presenters of a paper, in which the presenters argue for their specific findings. This paper is placed before a panel of judges where the presenter must defend the thesis against all challenges.

When evidence is contradictory to predicted expectations, the evidence and the ways of making it are often closely scrutinized (see experimenter's regress) and only at the end of this process is the hypothesis rejected: this can be referred to as 'refutation of the hypothesis'. The rules for evidence used by science are collected systematically in an attempt to avoid the bias inherent to anecdotal evidence.

As a scientist I know what scientific evidence is. You are confusing types of evidence. Your evidence is anecdotal.

Anecdotal evidence does not qualify as scientific evidence because its nature prevents it from being investigated using the scientific method. Misuse of anecdotal evidence is an informal fallacy.

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
Can we please readdress the fact that Venus is too much of an armpit (hot, poisonous, too much atmospheric pressure) to give rise to intelligent life?

No.

We have already established that it would be a different type of life form than a carbon based human, if any life existed there.

Let's not beat a dead horse.

reply to post by raymundoko


I am not claiming proof of anything. I stated evidence, as in a large number of reported experiences. In addition, we have scientifically observed characteristics of plasma behavior.

Here is a fact for you. The human species has barely scratched the surface in its scientific understanding of the world.

I don't know what you do as a scientist, but if you want to be good at what you do, then you need to learn that one.

Originally posted by raymundoko
reply to post by poet1b

 

As a scientist I know what scientific evidence is. You are confusing types of evidence. Your evidence is anecdotal.

Anecdotal evidence does not qualify as scientific evidence because its nature prevents it from being investigated using the scientific method. Misuse of anecdotal evidence is an informal fallacy.

edit on 3-9-2013 by raymundoko because: (no reason given)

Sorry man; what he was talking about was empirical evidence, the REAL meat and potatoes of Science. As A "scientist" you should have recognized that straight away.

Now then; your anecdotal evidence! Is every bit as good as empirical IF it is handled correctly. (I'm going to assume you are NOT a computer or data scientist) This isn't a place for a classroom so I will simply say that evidence, more correctly, Data is always useful regardless of its source. In the case of anecdotal data, it can establish the trends and patterns we observe in other data, it helps to inform us of the "texture" of the data.

reply to post by poet1b


Atmospheric Physics. My field of research and work history is studying upper atmospheric phenomena....you know...plasma.

reply to post by tanka418


You are confused about what empirical evidence is in the scientific community.

In science, empirical evidence is required for a hypothesis to gain acceptance in the scientific community. Normally, this validation is achieved by the scientific method of hypothesis commitment, experimental design, peer review, adversarial review, reproduction of results, conference presentation and journal publication. This requires rigorous communication of hypothesis (usually expressed in mathematics), experimental constraints and controls (expressed necessarily in terms of standard experimental apparatus), and a common understanding of measurement.

Hey guys, I really appreciate your interest, but could we get off "science" and get back to discussing The Law of One, and the Orion?

reply to post by ArdenWolf


Well I think we can agree that communication with an "Alien" entity is possible, though very problematic. Language barriers can be difficult. But not insurmountable.

The real issue here is that both sides in this "communication" initially have no reference to the other's world, thus requiring time. If both parties were linguists, that time may only be months, otherwise, reliable communication could take years. And, that is not what is happening here with all these channelings. In channeling there seems to be a spontaneous, reliable, perfectly understood, communication link.

Ever try to get a Mac and a PC to play nice together? Ya know they actually speak the same language? Yet communication is difficult. If we were to throw a Unix machine into all that...gonna have sum haute fun tonight!
(unless of course that's been fixed...I try NOT to pay attention to that crap).

Also, we should prolly leave the puppies out of this; I'm finding I have a wee bit of trouble being properly objective there.

Of course if there are aliens, I personally think dicking with the primitives for personal enjoyment is a favorite past time as it makes so much more sense to me with all the claims that are out there than the claims do themselves. I don't deny a lot of this may occur, more I argue against it actually being what it seems at face value.

I have some basic objections to the use of the word "IF" when considering the existence of ET. Probability has shown that ET absolutely must exist. The real world probabilities are not only on the side of ET existing, but, it places at least 10.5 Extraterrestrial species visiting Earth.

The 10.5 species along with a brief study of Stars within 50ly will show that there must be visiting ETs. Though again, this only establishes a probability. But, as I'm sure our scientist visitor can tell us; probability and quantum mechanics explain the universe we live in equally as well as old school relativistic science.

I also argue against the concept that aliens would necessarily be above such things. We're quick to make them just sinister, or really crazy nice and spiritual, but so quick to discount that they could just be complete and total dicks for which we are little more than a source of amusement.

HEAR! HEAR!
It may be reasonable that ET is at least somewhat advanced over Terrestrials, but, to think that ET is "good", or ET is "bad" is actually to not think at all. It is far more reasonable, and probable, that ET is just like Terrestrials in many respects, and morality in one of them. I suspect that a very wide range will eventually be found.
Something to think about:

All space-faring species have become their home world's apex-predator!

That is the case with Terrestrials, and will be fund to be the case everywhere else. (actually there should be some exceptions to that, as it will establish itself as a general rule)



-------------------------------------------------------------
I am the most interesting software engineer in the world: I do not often code, but when I do: I code in C++. Stay objective my friends.

reply to post by sled735

Hey guys, I really appreciate your interest, but could we get off "science" and get back to discussing The Law of One, and the Orion?

no more science.

I am Ra. I am a comprehensive repository of all knowledge past, present, and future. I have come to your plane to tell you; "NO SCIENCE". Listen to me and believe everything I say.

Ra signing out.

reply to post by sled735


Yes, on the Orion stuff.

As against "Channeling" as I am, it get kind of difficult to agree with any "channeled" aterial. However on the Orion thing.

The Sirian / Orion Alliance. Easily the largest and most powerful of all the near by ET factions. They are called "evil" and with good reason.

this wee vid explains it some:

Newer info seem to indicate that the Sirian / Orion Alliance, and / or, the ETs left behind when the colonies failed have engaged in a massive dis-information project. The purpose is not fully understood, but it has affected the belief system of this entire planet and her people. It appears that they have shifted the responsibility for abductions, and other forms of interference from themselves to other ET factions.

Do you all think that maybe the Orion is where the "church" got it's information.
They do "enslave" their members to have only certain beliefs, and act certain ways.

But then, the Bible says there will come a time of "great deception". Is it talking about The Law of One teachings?

What do you all think?

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
reply to post by sled735

 

no more science.

I am Ra. I am a comprehensive repository of all knowledge past, present, and future. I have come to your plane to tell you; "NO SCIENCE". Listen to me and believe everything I say.

Ra signing out

lol. I'll do me best Ra. But, you have to understand, I'm old, set in my ways, and the science and math has served me well for over six decades. I don't think it will ever go away, and will always nag at me over truth.

Sigh...perhaps this is my fate, being an engineer and all; to always be at the mercy of science, math, and logic.