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Are we vulnerable to an invasion?

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posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond
Brazil is aligned with Russia, India, China, and I believe now South Africa as well in a formal alliance. (BRICS). Venezuela is probably going to join, and if the marxist rebels FARC were to win (which they could if Russia and Venezuela got directly behind them) Columbia would fall. That compromises the Panama canal and opens a door into Mexico. Strategically very dangerous.
Why does everybody think I'm always shouting that we should make friends with Venezuela? It's not because I love commies per se, just because they would be very good friends to have if we want to be at peace with BRICS.

In this case it really doesn't matter who is allied with who. Trying to smuggle an army large enough to invade the US across the ocean then trying to sneak them to the US border is impossible.
Plus were not enemies with the BRICS.....

[edit on 16-2-2005 by ThatsJustWeird]




posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
In this case it really doesn't matter who is allied with who. Trying to smuggle an army large enough to invade the US across the ocean then trying to sneak them to the US border is impossible.


Think stepping stones. Every nation BRICS gains favor in is both a storing place for small forces and a means of accessing another nation, not only for the possibility of an invasion (which doesn't need to be secret if you have enough airpower and missile forces to secure the coast until your reinforcements arrive) but also for more limited acts, such as gaining influence over the Panama Canal.

They would need Columbia to get their foothold in Panama, and they need Venezuela so that FARC can win Columbia for them, and they can use Brazil as a front for protecting Venezuela from us.



Plus were not enemies with the BRICS.....


Nor are we inseparable friends with them. BRICS and the US have different interests and goals. It is unlikely that BRICS will ever see a need to invade America, however they may one day want to excercise influence, for example by blocking American forces from reaching a region of conflict or by presenting an idle threat in our hemisphere which we must keep forces in place to check, making large deployments impossible.

Hypothetically speaking, if Venezuela and Brazil were armed with sufficient modern aircraft and missile forces over the next few years, an incursion by the US from the sea would become impossible. This would slow America's ability to react to situations in South America, including a prospective buildup of foreign troops and equipment. It may one day become theoretically possible then that if BRICS wanted to they could begin an invasion of Mexico with no need for the element of surprise, and the outcome of the war for America (if America stepped in) might be in doubt.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by Illmatic67


The vast majority of Americans are anti-guns and are for more stricter gun laws so there goes a ready loaded American society.


Au contraire, mon ami. C'est faux.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 09:54 PM
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We have enough nuke power floating around in submarines right now to remove ANY country, including Russia AND China!! So they invade our soil! Their countires would be a wasteland by the time they returned.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 09:16 AM
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We have enough nuke power floating around in submarines right now to remove ANY country, including Russia AND China!! So they invade our soil! Their countires would be a wasteland by the time they returned.



While this might be a true statement, I don't find much comfort in it. I do believe that we are vulnerable. I think that small steps have already been taken, and the US is blind to them. I think plans, and resources are probably already in place which would make it possible. Add that to the reports that the military is pretty much stretched pretty thin, and it is a possibility. Unlikely, but possible. I understand that the US Navy is several days, if not weeks away from our borders. Is this a true fact?



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 09:51 AM
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lol China can take on USA in 15-20 years? so USA technology is going to stand still an say here we go China we will wait for you to catch us up
AS IF usa in 15-20 years will be miles ahead of China in weapons technology (have you seen some stuff planned to come of production lines in 2010??? very futuristic weps r planned) and even UK has a few cool things comming of production line then ie 2 aircraft carriers size of what USA uses and some super new subs and planes let alone what USA has comming of lines.....

And as for an invasion of USA LoL as if, and if it did happen what do you think the USA nuclear subs would do??? oh yes thats right they would launch their nukes against the invaders country.. Come to think of it if an invasion of USA took place it would be beggining of WW3 as im sure the ALLIES would not sit an watch it happen..

[edit on 17-2-2005 by blobby]



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond
Think stepping stones. Every nation BRICS gains favor in is both a storing place for small forces and a means of accessing another nation, not only for the possibility of an invasion (which doesn't need to be secret if you have enough airpower and missile forces to secure the coast until your reinforcements arrive)

This is America we're talking here....

Again, a build up of forces to invade the US would not be something you can hide. And hiding and surprise would be the only way you have a chance at being successful (and even then, any success would be short term.) So, since the US would know and be prepared.......do you realize how much airpower and missles you would need to secure the thousands of miles of coast the US has? Especially while the countries from which the air and missle forces are coming from are being pounded by US forces.


Nukes would be the best way to secure parts of our coastline and if you use nukes against us....it's over.


Venezuela and Brazil were armed with sufficient modern aircraft and missile forces over the next few years, an incursion by the US from the sea would become impossible. This would slow America's ability to react to situations in South America, including a prospective buildup of foreign troops and equipment.

Again, this is America we're talking about here....
One of the biggest and the most advanced.



[It may one day become theoretically possible then that if BRICS wanted to they could begin an invasion of Mexico with no need for the element of surprise, and the outcome of the war for America (if America stepped in) might be in doubt.

So all countries between South American and the US would just stand back and watch as their country is taken over? By the time any army would be able to reach our borders their armies would be exhausted already from taking and continuing to take a severe pounding from the US and our allies.




I understand that the US Navy is several days, if not weeks away from our borders. Is this a true fact?

What do you mean?


[edit on 17-2-2005 by ThatsJustWeird]

[edit on 17-2-2005 by ThatsJustWeird]



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 10:18 AM
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quote:
I understand that the US Navy is several days, if not weeks away from our borders. Is this a true fact?

What do you mean?


I may be mistaken, however I am under the impression that the majority of our Naval fleet is deployed abroad, and it would take days, if not weeks for them to get back to the US borders in order to defend her.

Actually it is not impossible to have a troop build up un noticed. For example, the largest cargo facility on the planet belongs to China and is in the Bahamas. Let's say for example that some of the containers that go to that facility are loaded with munitions and troops. Highly unlikely I know, however it is certainly possible.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by superdude
I may be mistaken, however I am under the impression that the majority of our Naval fleet is deployed abroad, and it would take days, if not weeks for them to get back to the US borders in order to defend her.


No, with the rotation we have there is always adequate forces to defend the homeland.


actually it is not impossible to have a troop build up un noticed. For example, the largest cargo facility on the planet belongs to China and is in the Bahamas. Let's say for example that some of the containers that go to that facility are loaded with munitions and troops. Highly unlikely I know, however it is certainly possible.

To have a troop build up large enough to have a successful invasion of the U.S. to go unnoticed is impossible.



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 02:53 PM
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quote: Originally posted by superdude
I may be mistaken, however I am under the impression that the majority of our Naval fleet is deployed abroad, and it would take days, if not weeks for them to get back to the US borders in order to defend her.


No, with the rotation we have there is always adequate forces to defend the homeland.


quote: actually it is not impossible to have a troop build up un noticed. For example, the largest cargo facility on the planet belongs to China and is in the Bahamas. Let's say for example that some of the containers that go to that facility are loaded with munitions and troops. Highly unlikely I know, however it is certainly possible.

To have a troop build up large enough to have a successful invasion of the U.S. to go unnoticed is impossible.



I would have to respectfully disagree. While it would not be an easy task, it is certainly plausible. During "wartime preparations", as well as actual warfare - covert activities take place. Most, if not everyone, know that cargo containers for the most part go unchecked. How hard would it be to have troops, munitions, and every ancillary need be shipped in cargo containers?
There are many stories of Asian militia surviving in amazingly adverse conditions. Is it so short-sighted to believe that this could actually happen? I go on record as saying NO. China is a formidable foe, and with the tensions becoming more apparent daily, I worry that China (who has Russia as an ally) is a very scary, and real foe



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 03:41 PM
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invasion, I'm not so sure. Attack-most definitely. I think that's inevitable, regardless of how supposedly prepared we are as a nation. I think we learned about that on 9/11. Just when you think things seem normal, perfect even, you are left with the torment and horror that in fact, all your assumptions of what the world was and is-is nothing like what you're faced with. Even worse, the realization that your country isn't what you thought it was.



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 03:42 PM
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A land based invasion would never happen in the United States for one simple reason - our right to bear arms.



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by superdude
I would have to respectfully disagree. While it would not be an easy task, it is certainly plausible. During "wartime preparations", as well as actual warfare - covert activities take place. Most, if not everyone, know that cargo containers for the most part go unchecked. How hard would it be to have troops, munitions, and every ancillary need be shipped in cargo containers?
There are many stories of Asian militia surviving in amazingly adverse conditions. Is it so short-sighted to believe that this could actually happen? I go on record as saying NO. China is a formidable foe, and with the tensions becoming more apparent daily, I worry that China (who has Russia as an ally) is a very scary, and real foe

Yes, but I said successful.
Sure they can probably sneak a few things over, but we're talking about the invasion of the country with the most powerful army on earth (that's what? 4000 miles away?). I just can't see being able to sneak in that much equipment and troops.
If you do manage to bring enough tanks, planes, troops, etc. what country is big enough (and/or willing, knowing they will pay) to hide it all? And how do they go from that country to our doorstep without being noticed?



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 05:22 PM
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Somehow I missed your reply, but the thread has been bumped recently so here we go again
.


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
This is America we're talking here....
Again, a build up of forces to invade the US would not be something you can hide. And hiding and surprise would be the only way you have a chance at being successful (and even then, any success would be short term.)


Saying it doesn't make it so. As I mentioned, the element of surprise is not necessary if you have sufficent air and missile forces to keep an enemy navy away.
Wait, don't say it, I hear it already: "But Vagabond, the USA has the best airforce in the world and that's never ever ever going to change".
Irrelevant. A carrier-based force an not accomodate sufficient forces to slug it out with a land-based force if that land based force has anything even remotely approaching technological parity, which the Russians can provide to an ally. If a region were quickly over run by a small force (easily possible) and the sea and air lanes into the theater of conflict were controlled by the enemy, America would be hard pressed to insert sufficient forces to be a threat.
An enemy working in cooperation with a South American ally can build a base of power on our hemisphere and quite possibly make their way into Mexico before America could react with significant force. Surprise is not necessary because small forces can be moved overtly without provoking an American attack and can be quickly reinforced once hostilities are commenced.


So, since the US would know and be prepared.......do you realize how much airpower and missles you would need to secure the thousands of miles of coast the US has?

That's exactly you're problem. You are operating under the assumption that they have to jump right onto our soil by total surprise. I argue that this would be a mistake and that the key to fighting on the American continent is to make a slow deliberate invasion from Canada or Mexico to be supplimented by the opening of a second front by surprise once American assetts are being heavily taxed by the effort on the existing front.


Especially while the countries from which the air and missle forces are coming from are being pounded by US forces.

Oh, you believe in the 2 and a half wars lie? The American military can not defend against a serious threat to this continent, cover against the threat of a second front, and carry out large-scale operations overseas.
If the initiative is taken by the enemy and the war comes to America, there will be little or no fighting overseas, except briefly as tin-pot dictators in Iran and North Korea quickly over-run American forces near their countries, safe in the knowledge that America is too busy to fight them.

I am not an anti-American. If this stuff happened, I'd be fighting for this country. Actually I'd be fighting for this country right now, but a back injury ended by military career almost as quickly as it began.

Just repeat after me: America is not God. Nations which believe they are invincible are prone to humiliation at the hands of unworthy opponents.



Again, this is America we're talking about here....
One of the biggest and the most advanced.

Are those like magic words that render us invulnerable or something? If somebody manages to get one up on us by shrewd deception and sound strategy do we just say "This is America" and God will smite them all for us?



[It may one day become theoretically possible then that if BRICS wanted to they could begin an invasion of Mexico with no need for the element of surprise, and the outcome of the war for America (if America stepped in) might be in doubt.

So all countries between South American and the US would just stand back and watch as their country is taken over? By the time any army would be able to reach our borders their armies would be exhausted already from taking and continuing to take a severe pounding from the US and our allies.

Supposing that Venezuela, Brazil, and Columbia under a FARC controlled government, and Cuba, armed, backed by the Russians and Chinese came after us? Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras, Guatamala, and Belize are going to save us? My estimate is that it would take about ten days for the enemy vanguard to be in Southern Mexico. Thats right about the same time that significant American forces would be arriving there, not to mention the same time that Russian and Chinese forces would be joining the fight.

This isn't SiberianTiger you're talking to. I'm not saying that America is weak and just waiting to get its butt kicked. All I'm saying is that we are not invincible and if we keep thinking we are that's exactly the attitude that will lead to imprudent reactions to crisis, and that's exactly what causes both military embarrassment and fall from power.
The Romans didn't take Hannibal seriously when they had him cornered against a river at Cannae. There were scarcely any survivors from the Roman force.
The Roman's didn't take the Goth uprisings seriously either- they lost a substantial percentage of their total military and part of the peace terms they had to negotiate was actually to incorporate their Goth enemies into the Roman military!

The rules apply to us. We had better respect enemy technology as well as economic and political developments, and we had better keep analyzing every eventuality for every region in which we could concieveably have a conflict.

Edit to add: By any chance have you read about what Generan Van Riper did to American forces in the wargames before Iraq? If that could happen to American forces abroad conducting an invasion, what makes you think that some clever enemy couldn't bring it to our doorstep where our forces aren't even alert for such a thing.

[edit on 17-3-2005 by The Vagabond]



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 09:55 PM
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What do you mean? We are being invaded right now by all the illegal immigrants coming over to this country. Nothing is being done...no troops on the border...maybe terrorists coming in with them...



posted on Mar, 31 2005 @ 06:22 AM
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I would have to agree. Doc Horacid has give his ideas on border control, and frankly I don't really disagree. This is more than just people coming over to work manual labor. I truly believe that the influx of illegals contains what we would classify as "terrorists". This is a much larger problem than many believe. If unorganized, low educated people can get across the border, what makes you think that the extremely organized terrorist groups aren't getting across? And who knows what they are smuggling across the borders with them?



posted on Mar, 31 2005 @ 07:23 AM
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Neither China or N. Korea have carriers. It would be almost impossible for them to launch a successful invasion without them.

I also own a few guns and would fight back if it did happen.



posted on Mar, 31 2005 @ 01:26 PM
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No an invasion on US soil is not possible first of all we have the largest navy,and i think the Biggest airforce in the world, and probably the most advanced, I think its good that some of our forces are overseas, cause it would take everything a country has to invade the US which would leave there opposing country open to attack from our forces, and i think i had heard from CNN report that the US has like 1.7 million troops and something like 650,000 are over seas so that leaves a little over 1 million to defend any oncoming enemy that would make it passed our navy, and US would not allow any country to buildup any significat force in say mexico and get ready for an invasion

It would take alot for an enemy to get footsteps on this country, and right now no country has the money or the man power to get all the way across the oceans, The only way they could come close is to somehow do like a D-Day invasion on our coasts which would be severly damaged by our Powerful navy Consisting of 12 aircraft carriers each holding 80+ fighters and Subs and Battle ships to defend them, then if they do get lucky enough to get to land Our A-10 Tankbusters would do a Number on any hostile enemy dumb enough to step foot on this soil.

And true immigrants are getting through our borders but with no Tanks,airsupprt, or Guns or enough ammo all they could do is maybe get the attention of the Police and SWAT, and the FBI would catch on to any huge amount of Illegal Guns or RPGs being shipped here,

And I to have guns and i use them

[edit on 31-3-2005 by zakattack]



posted on Mar, 31 2005 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by superdude



We have enough nuke power floating around in submarines right now to remove ANY country, including Russia AND China!! So they invade our soil! Their countires would be a wasteland by the time they returned.



While this might be a true statement, I don't find much comfort in it. I do believe that we are vulnerable. I think that small steps have already been taken, and the US is blind to them. I think plans, and resources are probably already in place which would make it possible. Add that to the reports that the military is pretty much stretched pretty thin, and it is a possibility. Unlikely, but possible. I understand that the US Navy is several days, if not weeks away from our borders. Is this a true fact?


Yes that is a true fact but we still have plenty of Fire power here in the US as well and i believe that at all times there are atleast Two aircrat carriers on each side of the US maybe not at port but, literaly it would take every Big country to get here and get a foot hold on this soil, and then they probably still wouldnt conquer us,

There have been discussions here on some posts that say that the US and UK and Nato could not Successfully Invade and take over China, i agree with this 100% The US is a much more Military power then china is right now but the US would be Fighting a loosing battle to step foot hold on China, china would have home field advantage, the only advantage US would have would be carriers and the ability to launch attack from SK,Guam and be able to Fly B2 bombers From the US but any tank to tank and man to man conflict would be to chinas advantage and vice versa china could not invade us, not even if Russia,China,NK teamed up they would not get here, And no countries posses the money or the man power or the Transport craft to get enough tanks or men to take over the US

Keep in mind that anyone who decides to invade the US is going to use all of it military then they have to get here which is almost impossible with satlites and they would never make it across with oceans with our Huge navy, For instance for China to get here would take all planes tanks and transport vehicles leaving there country unprotected, Then all the US Military personnel and aircraft and tanks and armored vehicles that are overseas would get the go ahead to launch an attack on chinas military bases,

This would be a very dumb move on any countries part to try and invade us by the water, and US would notice a huge enemy build up in mexico and that wouldnt last long.

And For example If US started to build a Force in Taiwan China would simply try to destroy it and the same would go for China if they tried to Build a force in say Cuba or mexico US would just blow the crap out of any in coming transports, and china has really built there military to defend there country, They do have a Navy but no Aircraft carriers which is a must have, and they really dont focus on Long range bombers, and they dont really have enough Refueling resources to refuel any Fighter jet escorts for transport so they would not be able escort any huge Transport of military equipment,

The only reason US can invade is because we have Bases setup all around the world and we have a huge navy with 12 aircraft carriers with fighters and bomber to soften up any enemy before troops and tanks get there,

US could do more damage to china if US were to try to invade china, but US would not succeed in an invasion, China and any country would loose almost everything trying to Invade the US and they would not succeed

[edit on 31-3-2005 by zakattack]

[edit on 31-3-2005 by zakattack]

[edit on 31-3-2005 by zakattack]



posted on May, 13 2005 @ 10:11 AM
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Although unlikely, I would say yes, I do believe that the US is vulnerable to an invasion. I think everyone agrees that there are sleeper cells already on US soil. Assuming this is the case, it is feasible that there could be a "cancer attack". Think about cancer. It starts with ONE cell. ONE cell. It attacks and fights from within, and often times kills it's host.
A coordinted attack on the power grid, and this country is no longer the inpenetrable land we' believe in. No GPS, no computers, no satellite tracking of any enemies, no guided "smart" weaponry. Plus the majority of Americans, especially the young, would have no clue how to survive without power.
That being said, NEVER underestimate the enemy. They are smart, and would not just depend on dumb luck. While the country is blind, it is not so far fetched that an invasion could take place.




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