Why we SHOULD demand military action on Syria

Originally posted by balanc3
S&F OP!

I've read every word on this thread and agree wholeheartedly that we as a nation need to hold accountable those responsible for the use of chem weapons against civillians.

Whether its Assad or the rebels or Black OPs or AlQueda whoevers using those weapons lost permission for ownership of such deadly tech. When a kid finds a parents gun and brings it to school and theres a shooting the owner loses the right of gun ownership and faces criminal charges. I expect the actions taken in response this chem weapon release to be on par with that.

If there's a technological ace up our sleeve I think the US should tip our hand and disclose; in order to fully convince the world of the righteous action in removing or destroying the chemical weapons from those who misuse or fail to protect them.

IF..Assad can't insure his stockpile of chemical weapons remain safe he shouldn't be allowed to keep them. Doesn't mean I think Assad needs to be ousted. Let him keep his tanks planes AAs missiles and the like. I dont believe its the worlds business to go around choosing the leadership of other sovereign nations.

And the previous video from 2007! And PNAC suggest to me that the heads that need to roll won't be just Syrian.

This calamity in Syria IS part of a plan of regional destabilization.

My tinfoil 2 cents is that Assads weapons are all safe. These might be hand me downs from Iraq. Being used by some pretending to be AlQeada.

This is for you Balanc3

At least one person is still
in possession of their own soul.


Mike

reply to post by mikegrouchy


Well as you know Mike, some of the good guys are bad guys, and some of the bad guys
are good guys. Furthermore, it becomes even harder to judge which is which in the middle of
a sandstorm/firestorm. Many of us are still on the fence regarding the actual eyewitness details
of Who Exactly has been detonating these chemical weapons.We all can agree that there is much
speculation as to who and the less obvious reasons why.

Considering Foul Play,
if we employ Occams Razor, We would discuss who would immediately benefit from direct
U.S. Intervention and involvement. We could then speculate as to who this perpetrator is.
Is it Assad himself posturing and defying the International Community?
It could very well be as simple as that.
Is it a Rogue Group who has managed to acquire and use these weapons, or is it a Foreign
Government Sponsored Activity?

Is this a politically motivated and funded activity?

These questions must be asked and explored.

The U.N. inspectors should have presentable data within the next two weeks.
Hopefully some accuracy will be attained.
Personally, I will not be holding my breath.
The "Tit for Tat" is deeply rooted.

The Public Statements made recently by The State Department and The White House
are clearly aiming for the moral high ground. Yet they are rightfully hesitant,
as this could be a political trap.To complicate the issue, we must consider the possibility
that these events are a test carefully crafted to not only judge response, but to determine
response time.

There are some facts about Syria that should be mentioned here:

Christianity in Syria :en.wikipedia.org...

Population of Syria: www.cia.gov...

Article: travel.nationalgeographic.com... e-modal

Ten Percent of the Syrian Population is Christian.
That fact alone will weigh heavily upon U.S. Congressional decisions.
Many Level Headed Good People that I know agree that there is not a simple solution
to this situation, and that ANY intervention must be a coalition focused on reducing the violence
and harm to children. There are over 1 million child refugees at this point !

www.care2.com...


There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle Mike, and some dangerous pieces are
still missing.
I agree that we cannot turn a blind eye to this tragedy, but we must be cautiously focused
on the reasons, methods, and potential results.

"Fool Me Once, Shame On You...Fool Me Twice, Shame On Me".

Star & Flag to your Thread,

The US broke international law invading Iraq. Will also break international law if they bomb Syria. So countries should also react together and decisively against the US?

reply to post by greavsie1971


If the UN acted the way it was designed, there would have been enough military pressure on the U.S. not to invade Iraq. The U.S. shouldn't be above international law just because it's a super power. The consequences militarily should be so overwhelming by a united international community, even the U.S. should be thinking twice before intervening or attacking any country.

The Iraq war is a perfect example of why the UN is worthless. Countries with a strong military are getting a green pass, and their war crimes are being ignored by the UN.

So let me get this straight.... You want the usa, to bomb syria... Because syria (supposedly) bombed syria?

Doesn't that seem like a little.... counter productive?

Isn't it time we evolved beyond war? Does war always have to be the answer? When you look back in history, you recognize that war really doesn't solve anything at all. However, love does.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the chemical weapons that were used in syria, weren't actually used by syria, but are a false flag.... Or someone put the weapons delibrately in the wrong hands, because they knew what the outcome would be. Which gives them an excuse, like the weapons of mass destruction that was supposedly in iraq, that were never found by the way.

LIke the 9/11 excuse to invade Afghanistan... and conviently Iraq as well.... Meanwhile the official story has so many holes in it that you can't tell whats true and what isnt. So then we must look at what the motivation might be to take control in syria... Hmm lets see.

1. The central bank is state owned, and not a rothschild bank..

2. Syria, is a GMO free country, refusing to deal with GMOs.

3. Syria has oil and will build its own pipelines to use it for their own self sufficient means.

4. It is the last secular country in the middle east.

5. They are aware of the global conspiracy of the new world order and refuse to allow them to be taken over.

6. Syria is in the way of the us getting to Iran.

Once syria falls into the wrong hands, the entire middle east will be able to be controlled by those who are already controlling the other countries. It's all a game, it's all smoke and mirrors.

People demand a military strike because they don't understand the situation. War is not the answer. Do not give the corporations the excuse to invade another country. No more lives need to be lost.

What we should be demanding is the destruction of the Industrial Military Complex.
Most politicians are on their payroll as are most of the political commentators otherwise any of them with any sense would be pushing for the I.M.C. to be dismantled. The security and intelligence agencies are all in their pocket as is the U.N.
If the I.M.C. were to be eradicated a hell of a lot of people would lose money but the world would be a much safer place.

Originally posted by Wildmanimal
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

Well as you know Mike, some of the good guys are bad guys, and some of the bad guys
are good guys. Furthermore, it becomes even harder to judge which is which in the middle of
a sandstorm/firestorm. Many of us are still on the fence regarding the actual eyewitness details
of Who Exactly has been detonating these chemical weapons.We all can agree that there is much
speculation as to who and the less obvious reasons why.

Considering Foul Play,
. [color=gold] if we employ Occams Razor, We would discuss who would immediately benefit from direct
U.S. Intervention and involvement. We could then speculate as to who this perpetrator is.
Is it Assad himself posturing and defying the International Community?
It could very well be as simple as that.
Is it a Rogue Group who has managed to acquire and use these weapons, or is it a Foreign
Government Sponsored Activity?

Is this a politically motivated and funded activity?

These questions must be asked and explored.

The U.N. inspectors should have presentable data within the next two weeks.
Hopefully some accuracy will be attained.
Personally, I will not be holding my breath.
The "Tit for Tat" is deeply rooted.

The Public Statements made recently by The State Department and The White House
are clearly aiming for the moral high ground. Yet they are rightfully hesitant,
as this could be a political trap.To complicate the issue, we must consider the possibility
that these events are a test carefully crafted to not only judge response, but to determine
response time.

There are some facts about Syria that should be mentioned here:

Christianity in Syria :en.wikipedia.org...

Population of Syria: www.cia.gov...

Article: travel.nationalgeographic.com... e-modal

Ten Percent of the Syrian Population is Christian.
That fact alone will weigh heavily upon U.S. Congressional decisions.
Many Level Headed Good People that I know agree that there is not a simple solution
to this situation, and that ANY intervention must be a coalition focused on reducing the violence
and harm to children. There are over 1 million child refugees at this point !

www.care2.com...


There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle Mike, and some dangerous pieces are
still missing.
I agree that we cannot turn a blind eye to this tragedy, but we must be cautiously focused
on the reasons, methods, and potential results.

"Fool Me Once, Shame On You...Fool Me Twice, Shame On Me".

Star & Flag to your Thread,

Actually if we employ Occam's Razor

Assad did it to frame the rebels.










Doesn't get much simpler than that.

This gets him

Russian Backing
Stronger Iranian self Righteousness
bad press for the Rebels
and a world that doesn't trust America

Mike

Originally posted by xxshadowfaxx
So let me get this straight.... You want the usa, to bomb syria... Because syria (supposedly) bombed syria?

Doesn't that seem like a little.... counter productive?


I [color=gold] wouldn't be surprised to find out that the chemical weapons that were used in syria, weren't actually used by syria, but are a false flag....

Didn't read the thread eh?


By action,
I mean we should demand military action to get answers.

Anything is traceable,
even dirt.



The thesis is this: Stop reacting to situations,
and take control of the situation directing it's
outcome.




1) Demand Congress take action

Not vague action, not talking points action,
but specific action.






2) We should demand Chemical Sniffing robots.

chemical sniffing robots to be used by the army





3) Demand full and thorough investigation
down to the mining operation where the
ingredients, used to make the chemical,
were taken out of the ground.




4) Hold everyone involved accountable
and start indictments if it was any of our
employees.

And by employees, I mean Military, Civilian, or Political.




5) Profit!






Is crowd sourcing the solution
really that bad of an Idea?


Mike

Originally posted by abdel
What [color=gold] we should be demanding is the destruction of the Industrial Military Complex.
Most politicians are on their payroll as are most of the political commentators otherwise any of them with any sense would be pushing for the I.M.C. to be dismantled. The security and intelligence agencies are all in their pocket as is the U.N.
If the I.M.C. were to be eradicated a hell of a lot of people would lose money but the world would be a much safer place.

edit on 1-9-2013 by abdel because: (no reason given, I'll ask him again later)

Go ahead, who's stopping you.

But watch,
in another month it will be onto the next crisis.
And the next.

Take up this one issue, the use of chemical weapons in Syria,
lock onto it like a pit bull and don't let go.


Mike

reply to post by mikegrouchy


Mike, dunno if you replied and I missed it or it got passed over because this is such a busy thread.

But why are we worried about the USE of WMD's and not the POSSESION of them?

i thought i read a thread here where the rebels admitted using the CW and claimed the Saudis gave it to them sans instructions on proper handling

not saying what i read is the truth but if so, are you suggesting the military attack Saudi rather Syria ?

otherwise, i really can't see any point or benefit in attacking Syria at all.
when our government uses CW on its own people daily, what's the point ??

do you know what propionaldehyde is and where you'll find it, daily ??
guess wh o trademarked it ??
(do read the fine print labeled Note 1 & Note 2 )

daily poison indeed but who is attacking them for attacking us ????????

reply to post by mikegrouchy


Those 4 things were already accomplished without him lifting a finger toward his CW arsenal.

To risk incrimination like that is something the US thinkers might dream up... because they are used to getting away with crap and have taken to employing the dumbest tactics. Assad has experienced things in his rule that has shown him how careful one has to be to give the west no chance to turn the table around on him.... because he knows they will jump at every opportunity and plant some of their own. there are multiple examples of things that seem to be turned around on him.... and this is why I believe he is so staunch. He has been the direct target of a lot of the deception... and that must be extremely aggravating. I do not believe he would simply hand them the ball.

The only way I could see him ever thinking that would work is if he just wants the US to attack his country because he is so angry that he wants to engage his ME partners and israel in a war and has Irans backing.... but if that were true, and the US bites.... The US is still the biggest fool of them all.

The US is NOT however feeling like it is being needlessly baited into WWlll, does it?

The US does not think for one second that it should simply put it's gaurd up within it's own borders and not sacrifice more service people to satisfy any jihadist need for war...does it?

it would rather waste money of war offensive than on it's own missile defence to protect the homeland from that ever feared Iranian or North korean nuke.

If the US genuinely thought Assad used CW then they must assume such a stupid move was done to taunt and bait them into a war and so they could finally open fire from multiple locations on israel with Irans open and clearly stated backing... but are they showing any cautioun to that possible plot, thinking that assad is responsible for this? Baiting them?

Of course not.

They know he didn't do it.

and they know who did.

If they really thought it was him and thought logically about what they are getting themselves into... a third world war, then clearly they need their heads checked.

They're dumb... but not that dumb. surely someone has pointed out that this is all potential bait.

No. they know Assad didn't do this.

They are just executing their offensive and trying to keep the schedule.

The only thing USA should demand is for its president to be arrested for attempting to attack a sovereign country based on evidence that they WON'T share.

If you really believe attacking Assad is the right thing I DEMAND you unregister on ATS and apply at the CIA or one of the other terrorist/mafia agencies

reply to post by beezzer

given the stock and work at Ft D, why should we be given a pass ?
and if we're stockpiling them, who are we to tell anyone else how they can operate ??

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

Mike, dunno if you replied and I missed it or it got passed over because this is such a busy thread.

But why are we [color=gold] worried about the USE of WMD's [color=gold] and not the POSSESION of them?

No, your right, sorry.

I read it but got caught up in the other points.




My too late reply:
We simply have to start somewhere,
and not let go of the issue like it's a trend.





If we gain steam on this approach,
then yes! we can move onto the question of possession.

But my suspicion is that the issue will morph if we start
with that approach, and we will be flooded with experts
saying how the stuff was made in a bathtub with ingred-
ients available at the corner store.

I suggest that we demand the samples we have now
from doctors treating the injured, from bodies we can
recover, and from active Army chemical sniffing bots.


Mike

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by beezzer

 

given the stock and work at Ft D, why should we be given a pass ?
and if we're stockpiling them, who are we to tell anyone else how they can operate ??

Makes us all damned hypocrites, doesn't it.

We don't condemn for having it.

Just for using it.

Like there is a peaceful purpose for chemical/biological/nuclear WMD's.

Originally posted by Honor93
i thought i read a thread here where the rebels admitted using the CW and claimed the Saudis gave it to them sans instructions on proper handling

One of the oldest tricks in Politics
is to send people into the rival's camp
and have them say damning things to
any reporter they can find.

I don't think Assad is above doing that.

But I don't want to guess either,
this is why I want the army to get samples.

If it is a plot, they probably were not expecting this move
if the Army, or Science, is interfered with they may leave a trail.

Mike

Mike,
as much as i can agree with some of your postings, i still have to ask.
why this and why now ?

if our military is for the purpose of DEFENSE, what exactly would we be defending ?

Originally posted by Honor93

do you know what propionaldehyde is and where you'll find it, daily ??
guess wh o trademarked it ??
(do read the fine print labeled Note 1 & Note 2

)

daily poison indeed but who is attacking them for attacking us ????????

Ewwwww,



scuse me... sorry.

Gah, what ghastly stuff.


Mike

reply to post by mikegrouchy


Who's stopping me? The rich people with big guns are stopping me, if they weren't rich or powerful they could be stopped.
Totally agree on the chemical weapons issue. Do you want to know where they came from?
Where they came from

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

Those 4 things were already accomplished without him lifting a finger toward his CW arsenal.

To risk incrimination like that is something the US thinkers might dream up... because they are used to getting away with crap and have taken to employing the dumbest tactics. Assad has experienced things in his rule that has shown him how careful one has to be to give the west no chance to turn the table around on him.... because he knows they will jump at every opportunity and plant some of their own. there are multiple examples of things that seem to be turned around on him.... and this is why I believe he is so staunch. He has been the direct target of a lot of the deception... and that must be extremely aggravating. I do not believe he would simply hand them the ball.

The only way I could see him ever thinking that would work is if he just wants the US to attack his country because he is so angry that he wants to engage his ME partners and israel in a war and has Irans backing.... but if that were true, and the US bites.... The US is still the biggest fool of them all.

The US is NOT however feeling like it is being needlessly baited into WWlll, does it?

The US does not think for one second that it should simply put it's gaurd up within it's own borders and not sacrifice more service people to satisfy any jihadist need for war...does it?

it would rather waste money of war offensive than on it's own missile defence to protect the homeland from that ever feared Iranian or North korean nuke.

If the US genuinely thought Assad used CW then they must assume such a stupid move was done to taunt and bait them into a war and so they could finally open fire from multiple locations on israel with Irans open and clearly stated backing... but are they showing any cautioun to that possible plot, thinking that assad is responsible for this? Baiting them?

Of course not.

They know he didn't do it.

and they know who did.

If they really thought it was him and thought logically about what they are getting themselves into... a third world war, then clearly they need their heads checked.

They're dumb... but not that dumb. surely someone has pointed out that this is all potential bait.

No. they know Assad didn't do this.

They are just executing their offensive and trying to keep the schedule.

Heartfelt, and a descent summary of the things being presented so far,
but you are still chasing after the information
and not demanding how operations should be conducted.

Think paradigm shift.
We want to get out in front of this.
We _demand_ military action, and we state very specifically what we want.


Mike