Prophecy: Gods signature on the Bible

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


honey... i adore your Zeal

- but "Zeal" isnt enough to make your point credible

- and people dont like to be Trapped into Smart knowitalls

look here
- your username tells you want to stand for something,
- fine,
you stand for the same as i do.

But dont Pose things
...that is like Shooting from a bunker, upon everything you see moving -
while your tárgets think,
"whats wrong with that a** ole ? "

you see my point ...?


[ judged by your posts - probably not]




yet its true

- you re not here on ATS to convince Others:
it appears to me, you re first trying to convince yoursélf.

regards,

- it dont mean that "i dont like you" or "am against you", SOL

just
you are So Encapsuled within the message, theory, you think you have to spread,
....that you make more Enemies as friends

[ and, judging your style, i assume you d consider that 'getting enemies' as "Proof" you are on "the right way"]

isnt it so..?

loosen up, my Friend

..there are many here on ATS who indeed seriously ponder

- and even more, who read - but didnt subscribe

so
make sense in what you write
make it Actual
- not spewing from a bunker
like the germans used the flamethrower

but Put It n Context

bless,

Originally posted by bloodreviara
So some of the things in the book happened, what about all the things
that did not? do those count as proof the bible is not indeed a book written
by a god? there are ALLOT of those so called prophecy that never did
come true. Or are we to wait another 3000 years until they do then claim
they are correct?

The problem with prophecy is that unless its VERY VERY specific in its
stated fulfillment then its all subject to interpretation, which means you can
never know if its actually correct because its just some persons opinion
on how it reads.

The destruction of Tyre is very specific and yes the ones that haven't happened will your eyes Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38-39 are playing out today before your very eyes. Keep updated on the Syria conflict and you will know the day these happen.

Isaiah called Cyrus by name 150 or so years before he was born not specific enough for you?

Originally posted by TheOutcast

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

I am going to write a book of fiction. In the early part of the book I will make up prophecies. In the later part of the book I will make up stories about those prophecies.


(Probability of chance fulfillment = 100%)

That would be a good rebuttal, but for the fact that it's historical proof that Jesus the man lived and did indeed go to the places listed in the Bible. The miracles He performed can't be proven, but everything that is possible to be proven is.

Where is the "proof" that jesus actually existed?
A few very vague references several decades after his death by people that never actually met him is not historical proof.

edit on 31-8-2013 by TheOutcast because: (no reason given)

Some of the stories involving Jesus are eye witness accounts. You seem to think the Bible was written by its authors to be the Bible, but it wasn't it is a collection of books and letters written in that day in age by people who were alive......

This thread was amazing. I don't care what anyone says.

I clicked it and saw it was another 'big thread", so I was just going to skim it.

I ended up reading it word for word.

Thanks SoL

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


how hard is it to write a fulfillment to a prophecy after the fact? How many times in the Bible does it says, Jesus did, or came from...such and such, to" fulfill the prophecy"?

Where is the Old Testament prophecy that he would come from a (non-existent) town called Nazareth, mentioned in Matthew?

Tell tale signs of interpolation are embedded ALL throughout the New Testament.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


I genuinely became interested when you started to list off prophecies but then that quickly faded. You listed events that were foretold and then fulfilled in the same book.

"Look, this book said this would come true and then it did later in the book! I'm gonna faint!"

Please know I'm not making fun of you bible but it's hard to take the prophecies in the bible as literal items of proof that prophecies happened when it's an entirely insulated reference.

Originally posted by Cuervo
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

I genuinely became interested when you started to list off prophecies but then that quickly faded. You listed events that were foretold and then fulfilled in the same book.

"Look, this book said this would come true and then it did later in the book! I'm gonna faint!"

Please know I'm not making fun of you bible but it's hard to take the prophecies in the bible as literal items of proof that prophecies happened when it's an entirely insulated reference.

You realize that if you don't take the new testament as reliable you might well throw out every history book you have ever read, because it has far more manuscript evidence behind it than any of the documents they were based on.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

how hard is it to write a fulfillment to a prophecy after the fact? How many times in the Bible does it says, Jesus did, or came from...such and such, to" fulfill the prophecy"?

Where is the Old Testament prophecy that he would come from a (non-existent) town called Nazareth, mentioned in Matthew?

Tell tale signs of interpolation are embedded ALL throughout the New Testament.

Please write 300 prophecies about someone hundreds of years in the future and have them come and purposely fulfill them. When you figure out how to set that up let me know.

Originally posted by TheOutcast
What's the probability of the story of Noah's ark?
What's the probability of not mentioning dinosaurs?

Just curious.

What’s the probability of not one culture on planet earth not mentioning the word 'dinosaur' knowing the word didn’t exist until 1841? I would say its 100% probable. What’s the probability of the story of Noah being a legitimate historical account when every culture on planet earth has varying accounts of the same thing? With the geological evidence of a massive flood, I would say its 100% probable. Also, your beloved 'dinosaurs' were referred to by the Bible and the cultures of the world in different terms such as dragon, behemoth, leviathan etc. There appearance was even depicted on ancient temples, clay pots, etc, such as the Stegosaurus depicted on the wall of the temple of Angkor wat in Cambodia shown in the link below.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Deetermined

 

You must have missed my edit. There is more than just one failed prophecy on that website, try debunking them all.

I'll hit the ones that might be harder for you to find for yourself I will start off by saying the first two destruction of Tyre and of Egypt are easily debunked if you just look into the individual prophecies a little. The destruction of Tyres you must refer back to the original language.

Egypt
Ezekiel 29:10-13 Egypt Will Be Uninhabited For Forty Years (after being destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, Ezekiel 29:19)
I believe that this is a case of misunderstood context. There is no reason to connect the prophecy of Egypt’s 40 year desolation, given by Ezekiel on January 7, 587BC, with his prophecy of Nebuchadnezzar’s conquest of the Egyptians which was given on April 26, 571BC. The two are completely different utterances, spoken 16 years apart, and in reverse order of the “failed” prophecy claim. Nebuchadnezzar did defeat the Egyptian Army at the Battle of Carchemesh in 606BC and subsequently carried off the wealth of Egypt, as Ezekiel’s 2nd prophecy says, but the land of Egypt has not yet lain desolate for 40 years. (I guess you can say that when it does, it will have happened after Nebuchadnezzar’s conquest.) The prophecy has not failed.

Nile
Many view the fulfillment of this prophecy in the construction of the Aswan Dam by the Soviets in the early 1960′s. When it became operational in 1965, it forever changed the economy of Egypt for the worse. For millennia, Egyptians had relied on the Nile’s annual flooding to renew the land and enrich the waters of the southern Mediterranean. It had been the most important event regulating the fertility of the region. The dam stopped all that.

In addition to forever changing Egypt’s agricultural industry, the decrease in fertility of the southeastern Mediterranean waters caused by the dam has had a catastrophic effect on marine fisheries. In spite of the dam’s benefits, such as cheap electricity, some have said that the best way to restore Egypt’s economy would be to blow up the Aswan Dam. A comparison of the economic and environmental effects of the Aswan Dam and the prophecy of Isaiah 19:5-10 clearly show that the prophecy did not fail.

Jebusites and others
Deut. 7:1, God Will Give Israel 7 Nations. Joshua 15:63, He Is Unable To Drive Some Out.
Joshua 15:63 specifically refers to the Jebusites of Jerusalem, one of the 7 nations mentioned in Deut. 7:1. It says that the Tribe of Judah was unable to dislodge the Jebusites from Jerusalem. But Judges 1:8 says, “The men of Judah attacked Jerusalem also and took it. They put the city to the sword and set it on fire.”

As per their agreement, the Tribe of Judah then went with the tribe of Simeon to capture the rest of their two allotments instead of remaining in Jerusalem and in their absence, the Jebusites returned. They also had difficulty with the Philistines in the southern coastal areas. And other tribes experienced problems with the people in their areas as well. All this happened after the major conquest had ended, “the land had rest from war” (Josh. 11:23) and the tribes went into their own allotted lands.

In Judges 2:1-4 we learn that previous to that the Angel of the Lord had criticized them for their lack of faith in completing the conquest of the Land, and withdrew His supernatural assistance. He had promised them victory over every enemy they chose to engage, (Josh 10:25) but they lacked the faith to make it so. (This is something unbelievers don’t understand. It wasn’t that God lacked the ability, but that His people lacked the faith. Of course they don’t understand this because they don’t understand faith.)

That being the case, He said, in effect, “Fine. If you want them living among you, so be it. But they’ll be thorns in your sides and their gods a snare to you.” (Judges 2:1-3) It wasn’t until the time of King David, a warrior of supernatural faith, that the Israelites finally possessed all the land that God had promised them. The prophecy did not fail.

Babylon
For many years prophecy scholars believed this prophecy to have been fulfilled. And then came the first Gulf War. People were astonished to see Babylon standing there on the Banks of the Euphrates, rebuilt by Saddam Hussein. While there’s no comparison to the great city of Nebuchadnezzar, it does exist, and though it’s population had dwindled to as low as a few thousand when the Greeks built Baghdad to become the major river port city of the region, Babylon has not yet become uninhabited. But 6 chapters of the Bible are devoted to its destruction, Isaiah 13-14, Jeremiah 50-51, and Revelation 17-18. It’s clearly a prophecy yet future to us.

The last one I am gonna do is the virgin birth and ill post it in a new reply look after this one

Virgin Birth

Some orthodox Jews rightly claim that the word “alma” in the Hebrew of Isaiah 7:14 can simply mean “a young woman” and that the proper word for virgin is bethulah. But when they say this they’re being deceptive and here’s why.

First, Isaiah was offering an important sign from the Lord to Israel. What kind of a sign would it be if a young woman gave birth to a son? That was an everyday occurrence.

Second, when 70 Hebrew scholars translated Isaiah 7:14 into Greek a few hundred years later in the course of developing an official Greek language Bible, they chose the Greek word parthenos, which can only refer to a person who has never had sexual intercourse, a virgin. The Greek translation was called the Septuagint and was pretty much complete by about 150 BC.

Here’s what they didn’t tell you. When the Lord had a prophet speak an important word with a fulfillment far in the future, he often had them phrase it in such a way that it could be partially fulfilled in their lifetimes. This partial fulfillment served as confirmation of the ultimate one. In Isaiah’s case, it was his own wife who bore a son and the name Immanuel was associated with him, not the Messiah (Isaiah 8).

The Lord couldn’t call Isaiah’s wife a virgin because she wasn’t one, and besides there would only ever be one virgin birth. But He could use a word that hinted of it, and so he had Isaiah use alma. After Isaiah was long gone and they only had the ultimate fulfillment to deal with, the 70 Hebrew Scholars disclosed the clear intent of the passage. The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb



Do you mind if I ask you something? If someone reading this thread became convinced that they should become a christian based on what you wrote, what would you get out of it? Would it make you feel good? That you actually served a purpose that you see as greater than any purpose here on earth?

Just wondering.

Originally posted by Peacetime
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

Do you mind if I ask you something? If someone reading this thread became convinced that they should become a christian based on what you wrote, what would you get out of it? Would it make you feel good? That you actually served a purpose that you see as greater than any purpose here on earth?

Just wondering.

I would say welcome to the family, and no I get nothing out of it other than the satisfaction of knowing my God has claimed another one of his children back, and please don't misunderstand if someone were to convert it definitely wouldn't because me, but because of God himself, he is the one who blessed me with this information and asked me to share it.
The glory goes to him not me.

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

how hard is it to write a fulfillment to a prophecy after the fact? How many times in the Bible does it says, Jesus did, or came from...such and such, to" fulfill the prophecy"?

Where is the Old Testament prophecy that he would come from a (non-existent) town called Nazareth, mentioned in Matthew?

Tell tale signs of interpolation are embedded ALL throughout the New Testament.

Please write 300 prophecies about someone hundreds of years in the future and have them come and purposely fulfill them. When you figure out how to set that up let me know.

No, that's not what I said, and that's not how it works. It's not hard to write a story that fulfills prophecy from the past. It's not hard to write a story when you already know what details are needed and how it's supposed to end.

Just because the Bible says that Jesus was born of a virgin, in Bethlehem, to fulfill a prophecy, that doesn't mean it really happened. The same is applied to all Biblical prophecy concerning Jesus. It's too easy to manipulate a story after the fact to take this story seriously.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Christopher Hitchens I think is the modern era's greatest prophet for Jesus, with all those great logical arguments for why not to believe, he did anyway, and died a saved Christian.

I don't believe this for one second! This is a dirty lie, circulated to besmirch Hitchen's work, after his death and while he's unable to answer such a ludicrous claim, nor defend his work and his integrity.

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

how hard is it to write a fulfillment to a prophecy after the fact? How many times in the Bible does it says, Jesus did, or came from...such and such, to" fulfill the prophecy"?

Where is the Old Testament prophecy that he would come from a (non-existent) town called Nazareth, mentioned in Matthew?

Tell tale signs of interpolation are embedded ALL throughout the New Testament.

Please write 300 prophecies about someone hundreds of years in the future and have them come and purposely fulfill them. When you figure out how to set that up let me know.

No, that's not what I said, and that's not how it works. It's not hard to write a story that fulfills prophecy from the past. It's not hard to write a story when you already know what details are needed and how it's supposed to end.

Just because the Bible says that Jesus was born of a virgin, in Bethlehem, to fulfill a prophecy, that doesn't mean it really happened. The same is applied to all Biblical prophecy concerning Jesus. It's too easy to manipulate a story after the fact to take this story seriously.

I am not being mean but you are arguing out of ignorance here. You realize that all the documents and writings you base your history on are less reliable than the NT based on manuscript evidence? Again the likelihood of someone accidentally, OR PURPOSELY fulfilling just 48 of the 300 is 1 in 10^157. The study that came up with this was confirmed by the ASA. Argue against a statistical impossibility all you want, but your argument is not rational as you love to claim, and you have to understand the people who wrote the NT recognized Jesus as the Messiah from the OT prophecies which is why they mention him fulfilling the prophecies because like me, when I see a prophecy playing out today I want to tell everyone. For example Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38 are playing out before our eyes, and you realize that you are claiming that Jesus was capable of picking the town he was born in, which family he was born into, the style of execution in which he would be killed, and much more that would be impossible for anyone to purposely fulfill

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

You realize that all the documents and writings you base your history on are less reliable than the NT based on manuscript evidence?

No, I don't realize that at all

Again the likelihood of someone accidentally, OR PURPOSELY fulfilling just 48 of the 300 is 1 in 10^157. The study that came up with this was confirmed by the ASA.

What's the ASA? There aren't 300 prophecies fulfilled in the New Testament story of Jesus.

Argue against a statistical impossibility all you want, but your argument is not rational as you love to claim, and you have to understand the people who wrote the NT recognized Jesus as the Messiah from the OT prophecies which is why they mention him fulfilling the prophecies because like me, when I see a prophecy playing out today I want to tell everyone.

For example Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38 are playing out before our eyes, and you realize that you are claiming that Jesus was capable of picking the town he was born in, which family he was born into, the style of execution in which he would be killed, and much more that would be impossible for anyone to purposely fulfill

Those prophecies are constantly playing out, again and again. "There's nothing new under the sun."

I don't believe that Jesus was born of virgin, as prophesied in Isaiah. That was added later, for effect, as were all the other so called fulfilled prophecies. Why does Matthew say that prophecy dictated that messiah be a Nazarite, I mean from Nazareth, when there is no such scripture?

Was John the Baptist the reincarnation of Elijah? He had to be, otherwise the prophecy angle falls apart.

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by TheOutcast

 

Where is the "proof" that jesus actually existed?

I think you just posted it.
Christopher Hitchens I think is the modern era's greatest prophet for Jesus, with all those great logical arguments for why not to believe, he did anyway, and died a saved Christian.

"There were many friends there (at the hospital) and he was the one kind of carrying the conversation, bringing up the various subjects," she said. "God never came up, if anyone's interested. It just was a non-subject."

Blue added, "If he had had a 'revelation' he would've been the first to share it and he would've done it in a very interesting way but as it happens he didn't."

Source

Like windword said, Hitchens' "conversion" is a complete and total lie.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

I'll hit the ones that might be harder for you to find for yourself I will start off by saying the first two destruction of Tyre and of Egypt are easily debunked if you just look into the individual prophecies a little. The destruction of Tyres you must refer back to the original language.

Please do elaborate. As far as I can tell, neither one was ever fulfilled.

Egypt
Ezekiel 29:10-13 Egypt Will Be Uninhabited For Forty Years (after being destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, Ezekiel 29:19)
I believe that this is a case of misunderstood context. There is no reason to connect the prophecy of Egypt’s 40 year desolation, given by Ezekiel on January 7, 587BC, with his prophecy of Nebuchadnezzar’s conquest of the Egyptians which was given on April 26, 571BC. The two are completely different utterances, spoken 16 years apart, and in reverse order of the “failed” prophecy claim. Nebuchadnezzar did defeat the Egyptian Army at the Battle of Carchemesh in 606BC and subsequently carried off the wealth of Egypt, as Ezekiel’s 2nd prophecy says, but the land of Egypt has not yet lain desolate for 40 years. (I guess you can say that when it does, it will have happened after Nebuchadnezzar’s conquest.) The prophecy has not failed.

So it has not "yet" failed. Okay, I guess we could wait forever and you'd still say it hasn't failed.

Nile
Many view the fulfillment of this prophecy in the construction of the Aswan Dam by the Soviets in the early 1960′s. When it became operational in 1965, it forever changed the economy of Egypt for the worse. For millennia, Egyptians had relied on the Nile’s annual flooding to renew the land and enrich the waters of the southern Mediterranean. It had been the most important event regulating the fertility of the region. The dam stopped all that.

In addition to forever changing Egypt’s agricultural industry, the decrease in fertility of the southeastern Mediterranean waters caused by the dam has had a catastrophic effect on marine fisheries. In spite of the dam’s benefits, such as cheap electricity, some have said that the best way to restore Egypt’s economy would be to blow up the Aswan Dam. A comparison of the economic and environmental effects of the Aswan Dam and the prophecy of Isaiah 19:5-10 clearly show that the prophecy did not fail.

Building a dam that holds back the water flow does not equal it being dried up. You are really stretching it here, but that's what's necessary when you are trying to justify a failed prophecy.

Jebusites and others
Deut. 7:1, God Will Give Israel 7 Nations. Joshua 15:63, He Is Unable To Drive Some Out.
Joshua 15:63 specifically refers to the Jebusites of Jerusalem, one of the 7 nations mentioned in Deut. 7:1. It says that the Tribe of Judah was unable to dislodge the Jebusites from Jerusalem. But Judges 1:8 says, “The men of Judah attacked Jerusalem also and took it. They put the city to the sword and set it on fire.”

As per their agreement, the Tribe of Judah then went with the tribe of Simeon to capture the rest of their two allotments instead of remaining in Jerusalem and in their absence, the Jebusites returned. They also had difficulty with the Philistines in the southern coastal areas. And other tribes experienced problems with the people in their areas as well. All this happened after the major conquest had ended, “the land had rest from war” (Josh. 11:23) and the tribes went into their own allotted lands.

In Judges 2:1-4 we learn that previous to that the Angel of the Lord had criticized them for their lack of faith in completing the conquest of the Land, and withdrew His supernatural assistance. He had promised them victory over every enemy they chose to engage, (Josh 10:25) but they lacked the faith to make it so. (This is something unbelievers don’t understand. It wasn’t that God lacked the ability, but that His people lacked the faith. Of course they don’t understand this because they don’t understand faith.)

That being the case, He said, in effect, “Fine. If you want them living among you, so be it. But they’ll be thorns in your sides and their gods a snare to you.” (Judges 2:1-3) It wasn’t until the time of King David, a warrior of supernatural faith, that the Israelites finally possessed all the land that God had promised them. The prophecy did not fail.

Again, you're stretching it pretty far to justify your preconceived notions. I guess the tribe of Judah unfulfilled the prophecy that god said he would fulfill "without fail"? Your god must not be very powerful if he fails at something he said he wouldn't fail at on account of some measley humans.

Continued....