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Apparently there is problems with the SU-27's anti-ship capability

....now watch them refine it to suit them more fully and build their own version?

no no no
they'll copy the su-27, call it by their own name, fitted with some other copied anti-ship suite.

drives me sick.......

If the reports from China about the WS-10A are to be believed, then China may no longer feel dependent on Russia for AL-31F's. J-10 and J-11 can go forward with WS-10A's.

Obviously China wanted to upgrade her SK's with SMK's and the Russians balked.

Rumor has it that Russia is pretty pi$$ed at China over the situation.

I think China is pretty pissed with Russia.

China bought several full aircraft contracts but Russia held back on the infos, but let me check the source.

They are going to get Su-30s (MKK and other models?) and hopefully intergrate some of the techs into J-10 and J-11s

[edit]

ah...it was a rumor anyway, no reliable source found.

[edit on 12-11-2004 by plutonian]

Stealth Spy, your Anti-Chinese mood is beginning to get annoying. Look I understand where you are coming from, and yes you provided a good argument with plenty of information, but you must understand that their were conditions for these acts.

And other people have also posted information and references that these are liscenced, so technically it is not copying. And the Chinese modify these aircraft when they call it their own. And the J-10, I have seen pictures of it, it is a combination of an F-16 and Su-27(comsetically). So I do not believe the Russians or any other country has made an aircraft like that.

Shattered OUT...

i have this Q long ago....

Apparently he's from India, the land of "wonderful" tech support.

He thinks the Indian AF is superior to the USAF for some odd reason .

I don't know if he thinks the IAF is superior to the PLAAF, but he likes to complain about the Chinese use of outside technologies.

All is fair, he can keep to his opinions, but he needs to wake up to reality:

IAF: ~500 planes
USAF: ~2,200 planes
PLAAF: ~3,000 planes
Russia: ~9,000 planes

The USAF, or any Western/Chinese/Russian AF, would bomb the IAF flat in one day in a similar manner to what Hitler did to Poland's AF in 1939. In fact, most people think Poland never had an AF lol.

Now, I don't mean to bash on India the way he bashes on the US and other countries' air forces, but I'm simply stating the truth. The IAF sucks, face it, and stop reporting to us how the IAF "beat" the USAF in minor areas; it's annoying ¬.¬.

P.S. Yes, I do get annoyed by those that take patriotism to the extreme and just can't realize that there are other countries out there better than theirs. Try and be open-minded, no country is superior in every area.

A little clarification may be in order. The SU-27SK's that are built from kits are the J-11. These are built under license, and it is apparently this agreement that China is canceling. The WS-10A is the Chinese version of the AL-31F. China wants ASM capabilities, and the SU-27SK/J-11 are not ASM capable. The SU-30MK2 is however, and China plans to build this version as the J-11A. Presumably the J-11A will use the WS-10A with tvc. J-11's and J-10's will probably not have tvc, at least to start.

The J-10 is a Chinese copy of the US/Israeli LAVI project that was canceled in 1987. Most PLA watchers believe that the J-10 project started out from a Pakistani supplied F-16, but the project was shelved due to technical difficulties. When the US pulled support , Israel sold the plans to China, and the IAI LAVI engineers went to China and helped them revive the J-10 project. Hence the F-16 similarities in the J-10

SU-27 is nice. But if they don´t need them, I guess they have an alternative plane to use. Maybe their own? Maybe one that can be armed with the Penguin?

I agree that that Stealth Spy does get a little overwhelmingly anti-chinese at times but what I think is annoying is you yanks obessed with the idea that "the USAF is the best" in the world blah blah...
Yeah you guys have the best planes in the world, the most no of planes, but enough about being the "best trained".

The whining that you people carried out after the COpe India exercise was pathetic, almost like someone throwing a tantrum after losing a first place. grow up and learn something!!

no...


USAF: 3200
PLAAF: 3300
Russia: 2100

Huh?!! now you don't mean to bash India but you seem to be doing that exactly. And why? Because of some comments of Stealth Spy
Whats all this about bombing the IAF flat?? You seem to be posting like those mindless chicoms now!! No proof,no links nothing

And if you're going to make up your mind about India's military capabilities based on one guys comments then im sorry, the rest of the world should give up on the US immediately. But we still have faith in the american people

btw india has 1000 active fighter aircraft ...I can confirm

Just a reminder from the friendly neighborhood moderator. Please stay on topic which is about China and the Su-27 License. Not a "my Dad can beat upi your dad type of thread".

The J-10 is a Chinese copy of the US/Israeli LAVI project that was canceled in 1987. Most PLA watchers believe that the J-10 project started out from a Pakistani supplied F-16, but the project was shelved due to technical difficulties. When the US pulled support , Israel sold the plans to China, and the IAI LAVI engineers went to China and helped them revive the J-10 project. Hence the F-16 similarities in the J-10

I think that you will see that the areas of highlighted text are contrdictory. If China bought it and Israel helped to transfer the technology (which is true) then it cannot be a copy.

Also the Lavi was an Israeli national venture in which the US provided assistance and advice, which is not quite the same as being a 'US/Israeli project' as this would imply joint development, manufacture and service which was never an option.

Well, the US sunk $2Bn. into the AC. It used a Pratt-Whitney engine, composite wings by Grumman, and US made flight control computers. There was a great deal of US involvement in the development, and US manufacture of many subsystems. When the US pulled the plug on finances, the project died. So I don't know why you object to it being called a joint US/Israeli project.

US would not permit Israel to export the LAVI. When they sold it to China, it was without the US's consent, AFAIK.

Anyway, I was just pointing out to the other poster that the J-10 was not a cross between an F-16 and a SU-27. If you object to me calling it a Chinese copy of the LAVI, I will call it a Chinese "version" instead.

[edit on 14-11-2004 by engineer]

I just meant that it was Israels project for their own Air Force, not that US Industry wasn't heavily involved. I just think that "US/Israeli" creates an illusion of Lavis in the USAF, but maybe thats just me.

I see what you were thinking. I never meant to imply that the US was going to field the LAVI.

So it's wasn't a joint project in the same sense as the JSF, where the UK and AUS are planning to introduce the platform in their forces also. It's just a difference in semantics. I would call the Block 60 Viper a joint US/UAE project, since the UAE footed the bill for most of the development, and they are the only ones flying Block 60's. But I wouldn't be implying that the F-16 was a UAE development.

Anyway, back to the OP. China is obviously tooling up for a confrontation over Taiwan, and they decided their J-11's needed ASM capabilities. So they decided to play hardball with Russia and they canceled the deal. If they have the engine problems worked out, they don't need Russia to build the J-11. So they are using the contract as "leverage", you might say, to get Russia to give up the ASM tech. All of which has Russia PO'ed.

i am absolutely sickened by what china is doing, i am a brand new member to this site, and i would like o know how to get an avatar, adn um, where can i get a signature, like i want to write one down" For Mother Russia(well actually Moldova)"

anyways, china is rally pissing me off, just, their rampant copying of all types of weapons is really annoying, they ruin the naem of that weapon, i hope someone will teach them a lesson soon, cpoomon america, u have nothing to be afraid of lol, except their like 400 million possible soldiers

Top right,there is a button called control panel,which is where you can put all that stuff.


Chinese aircraft,even though copied,are still very powerful compared to the modern planes,and they have a numerical advantage.


America will not fight China,they do not have the force required,their forces are already spread out thinly around Afghanistan,Iraq and South Korea,They will not fight a huge war against China;the causualties will be countless if they try a full scale invasion.Even if they win the initial war,Living in China for a few years tells me that there will always be Chinese guerrilas picking out US troops one by one,it will probably be a huge flop like Vietnam to a larger extent.